Opinion: Don’t go down the path of vaccine mandates, rather show anti-vaxxers for who they really are

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe politically, but not therapeutically.

Yes, I have never seen a hypothesis for how this information could use used medically. It's always been pursued as a club to bludgeon the Chinese with and nothing more.

 

"

Is it true that SARS-CoV-2 must have been engineered, because it's perfect for causing a pandemic?

Many scientists say no. Just because the virus spreads among humans doesn't mean it was designed to do so. It also flourishes among mink and infects a host of carnivorous mammals. And it wasn’t optimally transmissible among humans for the better part of last year. Rather, new, more efficient variants have evolved around the world. To name one example, the highly transmissible variant of SARS-CoV-2 first reported in India (B.1.617.2, or Delta) has mutations in the nucleotides encoding its furin cleavage site that appear to make the virus better at infecting cells⁸.

“This was not some supremely adapted pathogen,” says Joel Wertheim, a molecular epidemiologist at the University of California San Diego."

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3

Edited February 25, 2022 by ozimoron

[Scott]

Further comments on the origin of the virus will be removed.  It's off-topic speculation.  

[rickudon]

For those of you who say "if you are under 60 years old there is literally zero risk" are missing one important fact. First, ignoring Covid, it is those in their 80's (or older) who are most likely to die. say about 100 in every thousand per year. if the excess death rate for a country is 10%, then 110 die. But your risk of death in any year is 10% greater.

 

If you are in your 40's, Normal risk of death is about , say, 10 per thousand. add on a 10% excess mortality rate and 11 die. Only one extra person died! But the increased risk of death is still 10%. And that is true for Covid across all age groups above about 30. Doesn't matter how old you are, the excess deaths are approximately spread as an equal percentage increase in death rate for all age groups. 

 

 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...from your high horse you may miss details".

I think that you missed his sarcasm.

Or perhaps you missed mine...... 

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

"A democratic and liberal government, and it is debatable whether we live under one right now, should not mandate or force people to receive something as personal as an intravenous injection."

In every democratic country in the world there are many where freedom of choice is not without penalty. For the vast majority the penalty is not an issue as they are more than happy to comply with the requirements.

For those that insist on their freedom of choice the other way, they should more than happy to accept the penalty.

Unfortunately the selfish do not see things that way, more a case of

"Rules and regulations are ok, as long as they don't apply to me." 

[Danderman123]

Now that the Russian troll farms are diverted to supporting the invasion of Ukraine, our anti-vaxxer friends aren’t receiving their daily supplies of propaganda, so they have nothing to post.

 

Meanwhile, around the world, vaccination continues and the virus is being eliminated.

[Danderman123]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:22 PM, TooMuchTime said:

LMAO hope you guys enjoy your quarterly boosters.

 

Someone has to make sure Pfizer reaches their quarterly sales target.

 

No better feeling than being able to make my own health decisions based off my risk profile.

Let me explain why you are wrong.

 

Let’s say a new variant evolves, one that is not so infectious as Omicron, but more lethal than Delta.

 

So, the virus encounters its first batch of victims. If they are unvaccinated, they get infected, and we see another round of global deaths. Maybe this variant infects you.

 

But, if the first victims are vaccinated, they are not infected, and the new variant dies. You don’t die, either. Note that there are variations possible, where some vaccinated individuals do get infected, but as long as the R0 number is less than 1, the variant disappears.

 

i am sure you don’t want to die from Covid, so don’t be an incubator of a new variant, get vaccinated.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Danderman123

[iliya]

On 2/28/2022 at 1:59 PM, Danderman123 said:

Meanwhile, around the world, vaccination continues and the virus is being eliminated

Will Putin get a Nobel prize for single handedly ending the covid pandemic?

[rabang]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:59 PM, Danderman123 said:

 

 

Meanwhile, around the world, vaccination continues and the virus is being eliminated.

Well maybe so but only because so many get the virus and then become immune. Certainly the vaccine is not preventing infections as there is a massive amount of people who have caught the virus but most only suffer a mild illness, usually less than a flu. Trying to stop the virus is as fruitful as trying to stop the wind with your hands.

 

Covid is hardly registered anymore in the news in the west and this was the case even before last week's events in Ukraine. As I have said the talk in Thailand concerning the subject resembles something that we had months ago, last year. Granted the omicron caused another panic wave that subdued pretty quickly.

[Danderman123]

25 minutes ago, rabang said:

Well maybe so but only because so many get the virus and then become immune. Certainly the vaccine is not preventing infections as there is a massive amount of people who have caught the virus but most only suffer a mild illness, usually less than a flu. Trying to stop the virus is as fruitful as trying to stop the wind with your hands.

 

Covid is hardly registered anymore in the news in the west and this was the case even before last week's events in Ukraine. As I have said the talk in Thailand concerning the subject resembles something that we had months ago, last year. Granted the omicron caused another panic wave that subdued pretty quickly.

Vaccination reduces the risk of infection, and if infected, the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus. 

 

Do you disagree? 

 

Also, having been infected by Omicron is no guarantee against a second infection. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Danderman123

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:59 AM, Danderman123 said:

Now that the Russian troll farms are diverted to supporting the invasion of Ukraine, our anti-vaxxer friends aren’t receiving their daily supplies of propaganda, so they have nothing to post.

 

Meanwhile, around the world, vaccination continues and the virus is being eliminated.

Eliminated??????????? LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, rabang said:

Well maybe so but only because so many get the virus and then become immune. Certainly the vaccine is not preventing infections as there is a massive amount of people who have caught the virus but most only suffer a mild illness, usually less than a flu. Trying to stop the virus is as fruitful as trying to stop the wind with your hands.

 

Covid is hardly registered anymore in the news in the west and this was the case even before last week's events in Ukraine. As I have said the talk in Thailand concerning the subject resembles something that we had months ago, last year. Granted the omicron caused another panic wave that subdued pretty quickly.

Last time I listened to the radio ( about 10 days ago ) they were still bigging up omicron in NZ, though for all the practical difference it's making where I live it hasn't amounted to anywhere near as bad as the media doom sayers were claiming. When it first came to public notice I thought it would be everywhere by now, but I don't know anyone caught it and only 1 reported case of omicron infection in the city so far.

[rabang]

On 3/1/2022 at 10:44 PM, Danderman123 said:

Vaccination reduces the risk of infection, and if infected, the vaccinated are less likely to spread the virus. 

 

Do you disagree? 

 

Also, having been infected by Omicron is no guarantee against a second infection. 

Actually omicron works as a "vaccination", probably even better than a vaccine.

 

Also immunity is not black and white. Having had one covid version may not give a total immunity but will likely reduce symptoms next time. There is nothing new about this as it has happened with other viruses in the past:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00214-3

Edited March 3, 2022 by rabang

[rabang]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Last time I listened to the radio ( about 10 days ago ) they were still bigging up omicron in NZ, though for all the practical difference it's making where I live it hasn't amounted to anywhere near as bad as the media doom sayers were claiming. When it first came to public notice I thought it would be everywhere by now, but I don't know anyone caught it and only 1 reported case of omicron infection in the city so far.

Omicron has certainly spread all over Europe and the US, just to begin with. Most people who get it only report mild flu resembling symptoms, at most.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, rabang said:

Omicron has certainly spread all over Europe and the US, just to begin with. Most people who get it only report mild flu resembling symptoms, at most.

Except for the 10s of thousands who have died. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:54 PM, sandyf said:

In every democratic country in the world there are many where freedom of choice is not without penalty. For the vast majority the penalty is not an issue as they are more than happy to comply with the requirements.

For those that insist on their freedom of choice the other way, they should more than happy to accept the penalty.

Unfortunately the selfish do not see things that way, more a case of

"Rules and regulations are ok, as long as they don't apply to me." 

The quote you included there was not from me.

 

It was a quote from the OP, that I was replying to.

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

The quote you included there was not from me.

 

It was a quote from the OP, that I was replying to.

Apologies if that was the case, has happened to me a few times.

[Cake Monster]

On 2/24/2022 at 7:36 AM, TooMuchTime said:

But would you make the final decision on whether or not a particular surgery is suitable?  What process would you go through to make that decision?  A mix of your own research and Dr recommendation?

Or your own 6 Years of Training and dedication to become a Doctor ?

[placeholder]

22 hours ago, ebice said:

 

 

Maybe people who can understand graphs?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2022/vaccine-protection-was-much-weaker-against-omicron-cdc-data-shows/

[placeholder]

22 hours ago, ebice said:

 

Or maybe people who understand that while there has never been a case of a vaccine resulting in long term latent effects, we are already seeing that this virus, like many others, can result in said effects?

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information has been removed along with replies.  

 

[Danderman123]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:53 PM, rabang said:

 

Millions of people have died from Covid, but you still don’t believe it’s a threat.

 

Because the world’s physicians and scientists are all wrong and you know better.

[Danderman123]

10 minutes ago, rabang said:

It is not such a significant threat anymore that it would justify draconian measures and restrictions or widespread panic. Experts generally agree that it is evolving to become an endemic disease that can cause problems but on a manageable level. I am not saying anything that I haven't heard or read from people who have a vastly superior knowledge of this issue than probably anyone at this site. If there is someone who "knows better" it is you and likeminded people who are so addicted to fear that you can't let go of it.

Evolving to become endemic is not the same as endemic.

 

Over 1,200 people died from Covid in the US today.

[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, rabang said:

It is not such a significant threat anymore that it would justify draconian measures and restrictions or widespread panic. Experts generally agree that it is evolving to become an endemic disease that can cause problems but on a manageable level. I am not saying anything that I haven't heard or read from people who have a vastly superior knowledge of this issue than probably anyone at this site. If there is someone who "knows better" it is you and likeminded people who are so addicted to fear that you can't let go of it.

Fear is addicting, same as the governments use fear to control people. Seems to work.

[jacko45k]

11 minutes ago, rabang said:

It is not such a significant threat anymore that it would justify draconian measures and restrictions or widespread panic.

And where are these draconian Covid measures outside of China? There isn't really widespread panic in Jomtien.....

[Danderman123]

Just now, jacko45k said:

And where are these draconian Covid measures outside of China? There isn't really widespread panic in Jomtien.....

He means wearing facemasks. Draconian, indeed.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Over 1,200 people died from Covid in the US today.

And they appear to be heading for the ominous total of 1 million Covid deaths.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Millions of people have died from Covid, but you still don’t believe it’s a threat.

 

Because the world’s physicians and scientists are all wrong and you know better.

We can agree those who suffer from obesity, diabetes, anxiety disorders should be cautious. These are the groups who suffer from covid deaths.

[jacko45k]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

We can agree those who suffer from obesity, diabetes, anxiety disorders should be cautious. These are the groups who suffer from covid deaths.

People with many various aliments are more at risk.....it is also up to society to help them and protect them..... very likely every Thai extended family has a vulnerable relative at home. 

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

People with many various aliments are more at risk.....it is also up to society to help them and protect them..... very likely every Thai extended family has a vulnerable relative at home. 

Protect them how? I pay my extended Thai family monthly to stay away.