Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Slip said:

Today I saw Larov or whatever his name is (Russian govt propagandist/ foreign minister?) complaining about 'cancel culture'.  If ever there is evidence that the far right in our societies needs to be curtailed that is it. 

The connections between Putin's fascism and the western far right are chilling. Biden's and even more so Zelinsky's framing of this conflict as democracy vs. Illiberal autocracy resonates. But the fight is global and I wouldn't bet on democracy winning.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Slip said:

It seems unlikely that the British have any interest in your strawman arguments.

or yours.

Your point is.........................?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The connections between Putin's fascism and the western far right are chilling. Biden's and even more so Zelinsky's framing of this conflict as democracy vs. Illiberal autocracy resonates. But the fight is global and I wouldn't bet on democracy winning.

 

 

Seriously?

 

However I agree with your last sentence. IMO in an equivalence with the Roman Empire we are almost at the point that the hired mercenaries decided to take over.

Western society IMO is too divided, too soft and too corrupt to withstand a determined enemy, and I'm not referring to Russia.

We may yet, IMO, see a nuclear war as a last resort by the west.

Edited April 14, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

This was published on the 10th April, good insight from the journalist. ????

 

Ukraine Will Easily Destroy or Sideline Russia’s Navy with Game-Changing Anti-Ship Missiles

 

For most of these systems, many, perhaps even all, of Russia’s twenty remaining large warships in the region—including Russia’s most powerful naval ship, the Slava class cruiser Moskva—are well within striking range from Ukrainian-controlled territory.

 

Just twenty anti-ship missiles and their accompanying systems could wipe out all of Russia’s big warships in the Black Sea and Sea of Azov. 

 

If (and hopefully when) Neptunes can be eventually deployed, a large portion of the entire Black Sea, including both the west and east coasts of Russian-occupied Crimea—where many of Russia’s naval vessels are based and resupplied—as well as the Sea of Azov, would be vulnerable. 

 

https://realcontextnews.com/ukraine-will-easily-or-destroy-or-sideline-russias-navy-with-game-changing-anti-ship-missiles/#

Unusually, I agree with you, and have been saying that in a couple of posts.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Berkshire said:

You're being rather simplistic in your assessment.  The US Navy just to put to sea its newest class of aircraft carrier, the USS Gerald R. Ford.  In wartime, it will be part of a carrier battle group.  Nothing will get near it.  One carrier BG can incinerate all of Russia within a matter of minutes.  So if you think the US Navy is just building a fleet of "targets," I beg to differ.

Given that we appear to be entering a new cold war, or cold war part 2, the arms boffins will be addressing just that situation. IMO no such thing as "nothing will get near it" for long, as each side comes up with better ways to kill each other.

Pity, as we are in such strife from inflation that's hardly got started, and we don't need to spending large on ways to kill other people.

However, it may eventually solve the overpopulation problem.

 

BTW, how will the Ford avoid being eliminated by a missile traveling at mach 5?

 

Google gives us

Russian BrahMos

 

The Indian/Russian BrahMos, currently the fastest operational supersonic missile capable of speeds of around 2,100–2,300 mph, is the most well-known supersonic missile. A hypersonic missile is five times faster than the speed of sound and exceeds Mach-5 (3,800 mph).

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, tgw said:

I particularly noted the Russians take exception in the "illegal detention" of their soldiers orcs by Ukrainian security services.

It can't get much more ridiculous than that.

One hates to imagine what the Russian authorities are doing to those they have "repatriated" into Russia. One can rest assured no international humanitarian agencies will be allowed access to them.

 

[Berkshire]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that we appear to be entering a new cold war, or cold war part 2, the arms boffins will be addressing just that situation. IMO no such thing as "nothing will get near it" for long, as each side comes up with better ways to kill each other.

Pity, as we are in such strife from inflation that's hardly got started, and we don't need to spending large on ways to kill other people.

However, it may eventually solve the overpopulation problem.

 

BTW, how will the Ford avoid being eliminated by a missile traveling at mach 5?

 

Google gives us

Russian BrahMos

 

The Indian/Russian BrahMos, currently the fastest operational supersonic missile capable of speeds of around 2,100–2,300 mph, is the most well-known supersonic missile. A hypersonic missile is five times faster than the speed of sound and exceeds Mach-5 (3,800 mph).

Firstly, just because a Russian warship was vulnerable to anti-ship missiles doesn't mean that ALL warships (e.g., US) are vulnerable.  The US Navy wouldn't have invested billions on a new carrier if it could be taken out by a patrol ship.

 

As to your question, the answer would probably be classified.  But I'd imagine a carrier and her escorts would be tracking all incoming missiles 24/7 and have defenses against all arsenal currently in existence.

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unusually, I agree with you, and have been saying that in a couple of posts.

Your posts are still there. You started off trying to make a comparison with the 2 UK aircraft carriers and the sinking of the Moskva. After being called out on that you then started grabbing at straws.

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The Indian/Russian BrahMos, currently the fastest operational supersonic missile capable of speeds of around 2,100–2,300 mph, is the most well-known supersonic missile. A hypersonic missile is five times faster than the speed of sound and exceeds Mach-5 (3,800 mph).

Does Ukraine possess any of these in the Black Sea area?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, coolcarer said:

Your posts are still there. You started off trying to make a comparison with the 2 UK aircraft carriers and the sinking of the Moskva. After being called out on that you then started grabbing at straws.

Firstly I haven't been "called out" on anything; secondly I can say anything not against forum rules and thirdly the topic isn't me.

All you did was waste pixels attacking me personally.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Does Ukraine possess any of these in the Black Sea area?

By not posting the entire post you changed the meaning of what I posted. That's against forum rules.

You know very well that clip was in relation to the USS Gerald R Ford.

[thaibeachlovers]

37 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Firstly, just because a Russian warship was vulnerable to anti-ship missiles doesn't mean that ALL warships (e.g., US) are vulnerable.  The US Navy wouldn't have invested billions on a new carrier if it could be taken out by a patrol ship.

 

As to your question, the answer would probably be classified.  But I'd imagine a carrier and her escorts would be tracking all incoming missiles 24/7 and have defenses against all arsenal currently in existence.

The relevant passage is defenses against all arsenal currently in existence.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously?

 

However I agree with your last sentence. IMO in an equivalence with the Roman Empire we are almost at the point that the hired mercenaries decided to take over.

Western society IMO is too divided, too soft and too corrupt to withstand a determined enemy, and I'm not referring to Russia.

We may yet, IMO, see a nuclear war as a last resort by the west.

You seem to have missed the news that it is Putin who is hiring mercenaries.

 

As for corruption, did you miss the bit about the Oligarchs or the impact corruption has had on the Russian military?

On the upside you managed to sneak your bogeyman enemy in, who as is your custom, you fail to name.

 

 

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The relevant passage is defenses against all arsenal currently in existence.

Well you got me there.  A carrier BG may not be able to defend itself against photon torpedoes fired from a Klingon warbird.  But now we're getting hopelessly off-topic...555

[Bkk Brian]

Pick of the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor, Karim Khan QC visiting crime scenes in Bucha. He is determined that justice is seen to be done swiftly.

 

War crime prosecutor says inquiry must be swift and effective

 

Speaking to the BBC in Kyiv, he said there was a need for "international justice to be faster, to be more effective and have an impact on people's lives".

Mr Khan said: “International law is not perfect. I'm going to make mistakes. The office will. Justice does everywhere. But we're going to try to effectively build cases so that we get to the truth”.

Khan said his team will start with investigating obvious crimes, which he called "low hanging fruit", in an effort to speed up the prosecution.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61101906

[Chomper Higgot]

58 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The relevant passage is defenses against all arsenal currently in existence.

Getting back on topic.

 

It has been demonstrated the Russian Navy ships are defenceless against the Ukrainian’s current arsenal (and the Ukrainians are about to receive more anti-ship weapons).

 

I wonder who it was who got the job of telling Putin?

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[sammieuk1]

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wait, so Russia carried out an illegal attack on a sovereign country, raped women and children before executing them, killed 1,000's of other civilians, flattened infrastructure including over 100 or so hospitals and health facilities, left active crime scenes in their path and now...............

 

I find it just a little ironic, they are opening a criminal case because their soldiers were allegedly forced to give false explanations about the "Special Operation" in the real world unprovoked attack which also happens to be illegal.

Its purely for internal consumption no one out side the zombified nation that is fed an endless diet of B/S and appears to still be eating it would give a nano seconds thought to any credibility left in the Kremlin ????  

[Bkk Brian]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You seem to have missed the news that it is Putin who is hiring mercenaries.

 

As for corruption, did you miss the bit about the Oligarchs or the impact corruption has had on the Russian military?

On the upside you managed to sneak your bogeyman enemy in, who as is your custom, you fail to name.

 

 

He's good at sneaking in bogeymen. We all know that corruption within the Russian military has lead to a massive impact on their capabilities. It additionally seems to have contributed in part to the sinking of their flagship yesterday.

 

It was due for an upgrade and refit in 2015 "While it was the flagship of the VMF's Black Sea fleet and it won awards it was in a pitiful state. Broader modernisation was cancelled in 2015 and what was done was mostly servicing and extension of power plant's life."

 

In 2018 Flot Prom pointed to older Russian ships having severe issues with their fire suppression systems. Again something that's been postponed as most modernisation plans have been scrapped.

 

Aside from the sinking of the Argentine Belgrano in 1982 by the British in the Falklands it is the largest successful attack on a military ship since the U.S. struck vessels of the Japanese Imperial Navy in July 1945. Congratulations to Ukraine for sinking the largest military ship in 76 years.

[sammieuk1]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Getting back on topic.

 

It has been demonstrated the Russian Navy ships are defenceless against the Ukrainian’s current arsenal (and the Ukrainians are about to receive more anti-ship weapons).

 

I wonder who it was who got the job of telling Putin?

 

 

Think it was this guy????

dmiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea Fleet, is arrested by people in civilian clothes. Witnesses report that the detention was rather harsh - the admiral's adjutant was beaten very badly.

[RJRS1301]

Ukrainian forces used some of their newest missiles to blow up an ageing Soviet-era Russian warship in the biggest naval loss since Britain sunk the General Belgrano.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/sneaky-way-ukraine-distracted-russian-warship-moskva/news-story/4243404b1394fa2f18d44290afeabd9a

[RJRS1301]

20 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Think it was this guy????

dmiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea Fleet, is arrested by people in civilian clothes. Witnesses report that the detention was rather harsh - the admiral's adjutant was beaten very badly.

Does this mean that Putin, now feels he no longer requires heads of armed services to advise him especially if their news/advice is bad news.

Do I recall similar behaviour of another dictator in the 40s?

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by RJRS1301

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seriously?

 

However I agree with your last sentence. IMO in an equivalence with the Roman Empire we are almost at the point that the hired mercenaries decided to take over.

Western society IMO is too divided, too soft and too corrupt to withstand a determined enemy, and I'm not referring to Russia.

We may yet, IMO, see a nuclear war as a last resort by the west.

Obviously VERY.seriously.

 

[Virt]

13 hours ago, tgw said:

Damaged Russian warship is afloat, Pentagon says, amid conflicting reports from Ukraine and Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-14-22/index.html

 

Although these news caused me slight disappointment, I think there is a third possible cause for the fire: sabotage. that would be worse than incompetence or act of war.

 

 

Here is some good news for you then.

 

The ship is now an artificial reef on the buttom of the black Sea.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

[tgw]

7 minutes ago, Virt said:

Here is some good news for you then.

 

The ship is now an artificial reef on the buttom of the black Sea.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

yes, I just read that.

great news !

[tgw]

whoops ...

Russian leadership...

 

Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had a 'massive heart attack not from natural causes' and 20 generals 'have been arrested' over bungled invasion

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10718247/Putins-defence-minister-Sergei-Shoigu-massive-heart-attack-not-natural-causes.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

 

 

and https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/14/2091952/-Paranoid-Putin-Purges-100s-in-the-Russian-Leadership

 

Admiral Igor Osipov, commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, allegedly arrested.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by tgw

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

whoops ...

Russian leadership...

 

Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu has had a 'massive heart attack not from natural causes' and 20 generals 'have been arrested' over bungled invasion

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10718247/Putins-defence-minister-Sergei-Shoigu-massive-heart-attack-not-natural-causes.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

 

 

 

 

 

Sure thing.

Poisons occur NATURALLY.

[RJRS1301]

20 minutes ago, Virt said:

Here is some good news for you then.

 

The ship is now an artificial reef on the buttom of the black Sea.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

I wonder how the chemicals and other armaments on the vessel  leeching from the vessel will affect the natural environment of the sea?

Probably ongoing for years after this disgusting war is settled.

Part of mans effects on our world. Very skilled at killing ourselves fast or slow.

The only inhabitant on the planet which has devised ways to kill itself in many efficient ways

 

[Virt]

6 minutes ago, tgw said:

yes, I just read that.

great news !

The Russian version are so embarrassing that if i were the Russian authorities i just would have said it was hit by missiles and then sunk.

Even if it weren't...

 

Russian version of a fire broke out and it later sank due to bad weather is Benny Hill material.

 

Sure that could happen on smaller normal vessels, but a billion dollar missile cruiser....

 

That's just too embarrassing and i bet Putin is jumping up and down in his office like a little angry leprechaun.

 

Ohh well 

Moskva will never again uses it's lethal weapons onboard.

It's P-1000 vulkan missiles were able to carry nuclear warheads with a range of up to 700 kilometer, so it was a serious threat to all potential surrounding enemy ships.

 

https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-threat-and-proliferation/todays-missile-threat/russia/p-1000-vulkan/

 

Excersise footage.

 

 

It's some serious hardware that are now on the bottom of the sea.

[Virt]

13 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I wonder how the chemicals and other armaments on the vessel  leeching from the vessel will affect the natural environment of the sea?

Probably ongoing for years after this disgusting war is settled.

Part of mans effects on our world. Very skilled at killing ourselves fast or slow.

The only inhabitant on the planet which has devised ways to kill itself in many efficient ways

 

There is probably some nasty things that will leak, but i would be more concerned about it's ability to launch nuclear warheads. Did they have any nuclear weapons on board or only conventional weapons.

 

[Virt]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

Ukrainian forces used some of their newest missiles to blow up an ageing Soviet-era Russian warship in the biggest naval loss since Britain sunk the General Belgrano.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/sneaky-way-ukraine-distracted-russian-warship-moskva/news-story/4243404b1394fa2f18d44290afeabd9a

I like that lowtech approach if it's true.

Drones seems to be playing a large part in the war.

 

Drones are reported to have been used to harass the vessel and keep its air defences distracted before the missiles were fired from a hidden battery near Odessa.