Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Chomper Higgot]

On 2/25/2022 at 6:34 AM, sammieuk1 said:

Time to add a new ace of spades in the axis of evil deck of terrorists ???? 

You mean you missed the bit where Putin was already ordering the murder of people in the UK and elsewhere?

[Chomper Higgot]

21 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The way the hypocrictical west keeps up hostility against Russia and China why not do what you want while you can, things will only get worse and don't forget Iran.

Compromise and a open minded dialogue and understanding of different cultures is what's needed not content western media rhetoric and threats.

Looking back through history, when was the last time compromising with an aggressor invading nations worked out in anyone’s favor, or there than that of the aggressor.

[4MyEgo]

14 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

 

 

Putin only did it because he gambled there would be no retaliation.

 

If he had seriously thought there would be he would have never have done it

 

He wants to keep as far away from nuclear war as anyone else.

 

The "last thing" to come would be nuclear war..........the last resort

 

Losing half an army and not getting the Ukraine would not be anywhere near sufficient cause.

 

Just don't invade Russia, don't put troops on "unfriendly soil".......anything else is OK.

 

 

 

 

Agree.

[4MyEgo]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It was quite peaceful already BEFORE Putin invaded!

You don't see the bigger picture, i.e. the expansion of NATO all the way up to Russia's border, i.e. if the Ukraine joined NATO, the USA is good at pushing it's cause, but some can't see it that way.

 

Ask yourself what NATO really is and if you really believe it is there for the purpose they say it is, then they sucked you right in, didn't they.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

You don't see the bigger picture, i.e. the expansion of NATO all the way up to Russia's border, i.e. if the Ukraine joined NATO, the USA is good at pushing it's cause, but some can't see it that way.

 

Ask yourself what NATO really is and if you really believe it is there for the purpose they say it is, then they sucked you right in, didn't they.

Go on tell us what you think NATO is.

 

And while you are at it ask yourself this question, does Putin’s invasion of Ukraine strength or weaken support for NATO?

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Meanwhile the Russian stock market responds:

 

https://markets.ft.com/data/world/countries/russia

 

And US, UK, EU sanctions are being ramped up.

 

In what nation will the hyper wealthy continue to see their wealth destroyed before they bring about political change?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Looking back through history, when was the last time compromising with an aggressor invading nations worked out in anyone’s favor, or there than that of the aggressor.

Without compromising for world peace there will be constant problems around the world like there is now until nuclear war.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Without compromising for world peace there will be constant problems around the world like there is now until nuclear war.

Oh that makes Russia’s invasion of the sovereign state of Ukraine alright then.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Go on tell us what you think NATO is.

 

And while you are at it ask yourself this question, does Putin’s invasion of Ukraine strength or weaken support for NATO?

 

Really, well it's not what it is supposed to stand for, but for some, they will think it is.

 

Russia's invasion of the Ukraine is to strengthen it's own position, which it has done, while NATO takes note, sitting on it's hands, i.e. it cannot keep crawling up to Russia's border under the guise of NATO.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Really, well it's not what it is supposed to stand for, but for some, they will think it is.

 

Russia's invasion of the Ukraine is to strengthen it's own position, which it has done, while NATO takes note, sitting on it's hands, i.e. it cannot keep crawling up to Russia's border under the guise of NATO.

Did you read my post before responding?

 

It seems not.

[tgw]

21 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Without compromising for world peace there will be constant problems around the world like there is now until nuclear war.

the main problem for Russia is that Ukrainians consider themselves European. There is a strong European identity sentiment in Ukraine, and they see Russians as thuggish brutes. And Ukrainians, having lived under the Russian boot for many years, do know Russians very well.

 

Ukraine wants to join the EU.

NATO is just a side show in the big picture, but Ukraine fears for its security and has just now been shown to be right.

 

Maybe there is a way out of this mess.

Neutrality may be the answer. If Ukraine's neutrality is guaranteed by NATO.

[Kwasaki]

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh that makes Russia’s invasion of the sovereign state of Ukraine alright then.

Ukraine has been doing nothing about eastern troubles for 8 years so that OK then.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Ukraine has been doing nothing about eastern troubles for 8 years so that OK then.

So there are troubles in the south of Thailand for many decades now including separatists. So I guess its OK for Malaysia to invade and take over Thailand and install a puppet government. The "logic" of the pro Putin crowd.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You mean you missed the bit where Putin was already ordering the murder of people in the UK and elsewhere?

The rhetoric and new way of west, Guilty until proved innocent.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Ukraine has been doing nothing about eastern troubles for 8 years so that OK then.

so, wait ... Ukraine has been nothing for 8 years against the separatists, but now Putin has come to help the separatists by invading all of Ukraine ?

 

 

[tgw]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The rhetoric and new way of west, Guilty until proved innocent.

On 27 September 2009, Yushchenko said in an interview aired on Channel 1+1 that the testimony of three men who were at a dinner in 2004 at which he believes he was poisoned is crucial to finishing the investigation, and he claimed these men were in Russia. Ukrainian prosecutors said Russia has refused to extradite one of the men, the former deputy chief of Ukraine's security service, Volodymyr Satsyuk, because he holds both Russian and Ukrainian citizenship.^[24] After arriving in Russia Satsyuk was granted Russian citizenship protecting him from extradition.^[25]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The rhetoric and new way of west, Guilty until proved innocent.

It’s not the West that has just this week invaded a sovereign nation.

[tgw]

From what I can read, there are some incidents reported where Russian soldiers change into Ukrainian military uniforms as well as police, firefighters, and emergency services uniforms, and then proceed to shoot Ukrainian soldiers manning checkpoints. Some of these Russians have been captured, others killed by Ukrainian security forces.

 

So Russia is in breach of the Geneva convention.

Quote

Article 39(2) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides: “It is prohibited to make use of the flags or military emblems, insignia or uniforms of adverse Parties while engaging in attacks or in order to shield, favour, protect or impede military operations.”

and three years ago he revoked the Geneva convention on war crimes:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-warcrimes-convention-idUSKBN1WW2IN

 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The rhetoric and new way of west, Guilty until proved innocent.

Wow.

The denial is stunning.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, tgw said:

From what I can read, there are some incidents reported where Russian soldiers change into Ukrainian military uniforms as well as police, firefighters, and emergency services uniforms, and then proceed to shoot Ukrainian soldiers manning checkpoints. Some of these Russians have been captured, others killed by Ukrainian security forces.

 

So Russia is in breach of the Geneva convention.

 

 

As a general rule, and I’m not defending Russia here, I would take all reports of breaches of the Geneva convention (from either side)  with a pinch of salt unless backed up with solid evidence.

 

The invasion of a sovereign nation is in itself crime enough.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So there are troubles in the south of Thailand for many decades now including separatists. So I guess its OK for Malaysia to invade and take over Thailand and install a puppet government. The "logic" of the pro Putin crowd.

Not a comparison and there ya go so typical an insult because I look at a situation from both sides and not from a close minded one way US and west way.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, tgw said:

From what I can read, there are some incidents reported where Russian soldiers change into Ukrainian military uniforms as well as police, firefighters, and emergency services uniforms, and then proceed to shoot Ukrainian soldiers manning checkpoints. Some of these Russians have been captured, others killed by Ukrainian security forces.

 

So Russia is in breach of the Geneva convention.

 

 

Nobody should be surprised by such war crimes 

After all dictator Putin is on a peace making mission to de Nazify a country with a Jewish president and defense minister.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Not a comparison and there ya go so typical an insult because I look at a situation from both sides and not from a close minded one way US and west way.

The sides are not equivalent! Putin is wrong to invade a sovereign nation.. End of!

[Lacessit]

23 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The way the hypocrictical west keeps up hostility against Russia and China why not do what you want while you can, things will only get worse and don't forget Iran.

Compromise and a open minded dialogue and understanding of different cultures is what's needed not content western media rhetoric and threats.

I'm not sure how one compromises or has an open-minded dialogue with someone who directs their army to invade another country, irrespective of the bloodshed it causes.

Chamberlain tried that with Hitler, please explain how Putin is different.

Russia and China are not the problem. Putin and Xi are.

[tgw]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As a general rule, and I’m not defending Russia here, I would take all reports of breaches of the Geneva convention (from either side)  with a pinch of salt unless backed up with solid evidence.

 

The invasion of a sovereign nation is in itself crime enough.

From the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense:

https://www.facebook.com/MinistryofDefence.UA/posts/264301855882274

 

there were other posts yesterday about other incidents of the same nature.

 

that's what Zelenskyy was referring to when he said "saboteurs" were in the city.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm not sure how one compromises or has an open-minded dialogue with someone who directs their army to invade another country, irrespective of the bloodshed it causes.

Chamberlain tried that with Hitler, please explain how Putin is different.

Russia and China are not the problem. Putin and Xi are.

Yes and while people overdo the Nazi analogies way too much, this Putin invasion of Ukraine actually does mirror the Nazi invasion of Czechoslavakia.

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/2/23/22944812/russian-president-putin-invasion-ukraine-letters

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

From the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense:

https://www.facebook.com/MinistryofDefence.UA/posts/264301855882274

 

there were other posts yesterday about other incidents of the same nature.

 

that's what Zelenskyy was referring to when he said "saboteurs" were in the city.

I’m sure Saboteurs are in the city,  but still regard that as part of the bigger problem which is the invasion of a sovereign nation in direct contravention of international law.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'm not sure how one compromises or has an open-minded dialogue with someone who directs their army to invade another country, irrespective of the bloodshed it causes.

Chamberlain tried that with Hitler, please explain how Putin is different.

Russia and China are not the problem. Putin and Xi are.

I agree it is a big problem but Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons.

This media hype and comparisons with Putin and Hitler is comical.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I agree it is a big problem but Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons.

This media hype and comparisons with Putin and Hitler is comical.

If you find truth comical.

[tgw]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sure Saboteurs are in the city,  but still regard that as part of the bigger problem which is the invasion of a sovereign nation in direct contravention of international law.

the saboteurs change into Ukrainian uniforms.

in the story related on the Ukrainian's MoD facebook site, they say "Ukrainian" soldiers went to an emergency services post and demanded to change into Police and Firefighter uniforms, briefly showed some ID but refused to let people examine their ID in detail.
So the people there became suspicious and called the police instead.

 

I guess the Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms were increasingly questioned about their identity as soldiers and plan B seems to be changing into civilian uniforms.

 

And this is in complete contravention of the Geneva Convention.