Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

A Russian soldier surrendered his tank to Ukraine for $10,000 and the chance for Ukrainian citizenship, an official has claimed.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-soldier-surrenders-tank-for-10000-and-ukrainian-citizenship-official-claims/news-story/50cc03acdc229b3d5268451cc91ea2dc

 

So much for loyalty to "motherf####ing Russia????

I'm sure the tank was worth easily 100 times to price asked.

 

This suggests an interesting tactic:  What if Ukraine offered to buy the Russian weapons and offered long-term visas to Russian soldiers that wanted to desert?  The weapons could be bought (using NATO money) for a tiny fraction of their value, and the invading armies hollowed out even more.  It would also be a further humiliation for Putin.

[friendofthai]

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

Western governments will pay. It is in all their interests to pay and far cheaper than direct military conflict.

 

Individual tax payers pay tax without ever knowing in advance what their money will eventually provide for.

Looks like western people love Ukraine much more than they love their own countries.

[RJRS1301]

21 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Looks like western people love Ukraine much more than they love their own countries.

Perhaps they respect sovereignty, humanity, and democracy, as opposed to killers, invaders and liars..

Killing children, bombing maternity hospitals , taking people as human shields, does nothing engender respect or love.

 

 

[Chris.B]

29 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Looks like western people love Ukraine much more than they love their own countries.

Not really, they are worried that if they don't help Ukraine they will be next. ????

 

[friendofthai]

7 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Not really, they are worried that if they don't help Ukraine they will be next. ????

 

That depends on weather you live in a Soviet Republic or not. The next Putin's move will be a public court which will try to demonstrate that Ukraine and the other 15 republics have never completed the legal procedure for exiting USSR. So people from Estonia or Georgia should be worried. But people from France or UK have nothing to be worried about.

[RJRS1301]

11 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

That depends on weather you live in a Soviet Republic or not. The next Putin's move will be a public court which will try to demonstrate that Ukraine and the other 15 republics have never completed the legal procedure for exiting USSR. So people from Estonia or Georgia should be worried. But people from France or UK have nothing to be worried about.

You believe that, you believe in Santa Claus.

Soviet Republic?? The USSR was dismantled , just remember if you do not learn from history, you are bound to relive it.

Several republics began resisting central control, and increasing democratization led to a weakening of the central government. The Soviet Union finally collapsed in 1991 when Boris Yeltsin seized power in the aftermath of a failed coup that had attempted to topple reform-minded Gorbachev.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1989-1992/collapse-soviet-union#:~:text=On December 25%2C 1991%2C the,the newly independent Russian state.

The Hammer and sickle was replaced by the RUSSIAN Tricolour 

 

[friendofthai]

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

You believe that, you believe in Santa Claus.

Soviet Republic?? The USSR was dismantled , just remember if you do not learn from history, you are bound to relive it.

Several republics began resisting central control, and increasing democratization led to a weakening of the central government. The Soviet Union finally collapsed in 1991 when Boris Yeltsin seized power in the aftermath of a failed coup that had attempted to topple reform-minded Gorbachev.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1989-1992/collapse-soviet-union#:~:text=On December 25%2C 1991%2C the,the newly independent Russian state.

The Hammer and sickle was replaced by the RUSSIAN Tricolour 

 

Not mе, actually. This is how president Biden has described the situation: Putin wants to 're-establish the former Soviet Union'

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-putin-ukraine-invasion-trying-to-restore-soviet-union-2022-2

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, friendofthai said:

Not mе, actually. This is how president Biden have described the situation: Putin wants to 're-establish the former Soviet Union'

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-putin-ukraine-invasion-trying-to-restore-soviet-union-2022-2

If you are going to quote me, use the entire quote.

Nothing more sad than apologists for killers and invaders.

Do not bother using your sad face emoji.

 

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Not really, they are worried that if they don't help Ukraine they will be next. ????

 

Exactly! 

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

That depends on weather you live in a Soviet Republic or not. The next Putin's move will be a public court which will try to demonstrate that Ukraine and the other 15 republics have never completed the legal procedure for exiting USSR. So people from Estonia or Georgia should be worried. But people from France or UK have nothing to be worried about.

Oh please! A bit late for kangaroo courts without any recognized jurisdiction.

 

The small Baltic states are already in NATO anyway. 

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Exactly! 

Don't worry. Vlad supporters are trying to be law abiding citizens here. Nothing more.
In July 2020, there was a constitutional amendment referendum in Russia. Russian people had to decide if Russia was the successor of the Soviet Union or not.
Most Russians had approved this.
Therefore, according to the new law, Russia, as the successor of the USSR, has the right to restore its territorial integrity within the borders of the USSR. So Vlad is preparing documents for judicial cancellation of the secession of the republics from the USSR.

[friendofthai]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The small Baltic states are already in NATO anyway. 

There is NATO`s p.6 for this. 

[RJRS1301]

7 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Don't worry. Vlad supporters are trying to be law abiding citizens here. Nothing more.
In July 2020, there was a constitutional amendment referendum in Russia. Russian people had to decide if Russia was the successor of the Soviet Union or not.
Most Russians had approved this.
Therefore, according to the new law, Russia, as the successor of the USSR, has the right to restore its territorial integrity within the borders of the USSR. So Vlad is preparing documents for judicial cancellation of the secession of the republics from the USSR.

Law abiding people do not bomb hospitals , kindergartens, invade, lie, or use others as human shields.

We are also aware how referendums and voting occurs under the current dictatorship, go peddle your pathetic apologetic **** to others 

 

 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Don't worry. Vlad supporters are trying to be law abiding citizens here. Nothing more.
In July 2020, there was a constitutional amendment referendum in Russia. Russian people had to decide if Russia was the successor of the Soviet Union or not.
Most Russians had approved this.
Therefore, according to the new law, Russia, as the successor of the USSR, has the right to restore its territorial integrity within the borders of the USSR. So Vlad is preparing documents for judicial cancellation of the secession of the republics from the USSR.

That would be the logical equivalent of Cambodia having a referendum to claim it is the successor to the Khmer Empire and restoring it's territorial integrity over Thailand and Myanmar.

[rudi49jr]

9 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Don't worry. Vlad supporters are trying to be law abiding citizens here. Nothing more.

Vlad supporters are trying to be law abiding citizens, that’s rich! Just one question: is trying to kill Vlad critics/opposers with novichok law abading? I have many (many!) more questions, just curious what your thoughts are on this one.

[rudi49jr]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That would be the logical equivalent of Cambodia having a referendum to claim it is the successor to the Khmer Empire and restoring it's territorial integrity over Thailand and Myanmar.

Well, to be fair, Morocco seems to be getting away with historical BS claims like that with regards to Western Sahara. Not that I’m condoning it, mind you.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

That would be the logical equivalent of Cambodia having a referendum to claim it is the successor to the Khmer Empire and restoring it's territorial integrity over Thailand and Myanmar.

Thailand and Myanmar have legally exited the Empire. So there are no problems.
But what about Ukraine?
Let's have a look at the "Law on Secession from the USSR" - 

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/shevarnadze-resigns/shevarnadze-resigns-texts/law-on-secession-from-the-ussr/

Article 3. In a Union republic which includes within its structure autonomous republics, autonomous oblasts, or autonomous okrugs, the referendum is held separately for each autonomous formation. The people of autonomous republics and autonomous formations retain the right to decide independently the question of remaining within the USSR or within the seceding Union republic, and also to raise the question of their own state-legal status.

So according to the law, it was necessary to hold at least 2 referendums for the Ukraine to exit USSR (In Crimea autonomous okrug and the remaining territory separately). This have never happened.

Vlad will explain it for you later.

[RJRS1301]

A Ukrainian man has braved heavy Russian shelling to rescue 10 kangaroos that were trapped in a zoo in Kharkiv.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/animals/world-melts-over-heartwarming-video-of-kangaroo-rescue-in-ukraine/news-story/ad633f14809f217031508763712fdf61

 

The Zoo must have been sheltering the Nazis Vlad was after. I hope the rescuer checked the pouches of the roos for weapons.

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Thailand and Myanmar have legally exited the Empire. So there are no problems.
But what about Ukraine?
Let's have a look at the "Law on Secession from the USSR" - 

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/shevarnadze-resigns/shevarnadze-resigns-texts/law-on-secession-from-the-ussr/

Article 3. In a Union republic which includes within its structure autonomous republics, autonomous oblasts, or autonomous okrugs, the referendum is held separately for each autonomous formation. The people of autonomous republics and autonomous formations retain the right to decide independently the question of remaining within the USSR or within the seceding Union republic, and also to raise the question of their own state-legal status.

So according to the law, it was necessary to hold at least 2 referendums for the Ukraine to exit USSR (In Crimea autonomous okrug and the remaining territory separately). This have never happened.

Vlad will explain it for you later.

By what mechanism did they "legally exit" the Empire? What if Ukraine passed a similar referendum, would you accept that? What gives Russia that right? There  is no way that law is in accordance with international law. Did any former Soviet nation complete those requirements?

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Thailand and Myanmar have legally exited the Empire. So there are no problems.
But what about Ukraine?
Let's have a look at the "Law on Secession from the USSR" - 

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/shevarnadze-resigns/shevarnadze-resigns-texts/law-on-secession-from-the-ussr/

Article 3. In a Union republic which includes within its structure autonomous republics, autonomous oblasts, or autonomous okrugs, the referendum is held separately for each autonomous formation. The people of autonomous republics and autonomous formations retain the right to decide independently the question of remaining within the USSR or within the seceding Union republic, and also to raise the question of their own state-legal status.

So according to the law, it was necessary to hold at least 2 referendums for the Ukraine to exit USSR (In Crimea autonomous okrug and the remaining territory separately). This have never happened.

Vlad will explain it for you later.

Hopefully from an ICU bed as he recovers from either a CVA or bullet

[friendofthai]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

By what mechanism did they "legally exit" the Empire?

By winning in numerous wars. If you forced another country to capitulate, then you become the legal owner of the new land.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, friendofthai said:

By winning in numerous wars. If you forced another country to capitulate, then you become the legal owner of the new land.

Then Russia still owns East Germany. Did they "legally exit"? If so, how?

[friendofthai]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There  is no way that law is in accordance with international law. 

This is not a question of international law. Other countries have no rights to decide what you do with your own land within your own country.

[friendofthai]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Then Russia still owns East Germany. Did they "legally exit"? If so, how?

The Eastern Germany have exited with the active help of Russia. So it is legal for sure.

[friendofthai]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Then Russia still owns East Germany. Did they "legally exit"? If so, how?

Wars are not necessary. They are just a common method to motivate another country to sign necessary papers.

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

By winning in numerous wars. If you forced another country to capitulate, then you become the legal owner of the new land.

Oh now, please familiarise your self with the internationally accepted "Rules of War"

What are the 5 laws of war?

 

Military necessity, along with distinction, proportionality, humanity (sometimes called unnecessary suffering), and honor (sometimes called chivalry) are the five most commonly cited principles of international humanitarian law governing the legal use of force in an armed conflict.

Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare civilian population and property. Neither the civilian population as such nor civilian persons shall be the object of attack. Attacks shall be directed solely against military objectives.31 Dec 1988

Basic rules of the Geneva Conventions and their Additional ...

https://www.icrc.org › files › other › icrc_002_0365

 

PDF

 

 

 

Check them out and try to comprehend

Both Ukraine and Russia are parties to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and Protocol

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

The Eastern Germany have exited with the active help of Russia. So it is legal for sure.

Did Ukraine "legally exit"? By your reasoning, Crimea still belongs to Ukraine except by brute force of "winning wars" and forcing the country to capitulate. Where does it end? Does Russia have the right to attack Finland, force it to capitulate and then own it?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

Wars are not necessary. They are just a common method to motivate another country to sign necessary papers.

"Ransom" and "blackmail" spring to mind.

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, friendofthai said:

That depends on weather you live in a Soviet Republic or not. The next Putin's move will be a public court which will try to demonstrate that Ukraine and the other 15 republics have never completed the legal procedure for exiting USSR. So people from Estonia or Georgia should be worried. But people from France or UK have nothing to be worried about.

I don't think the weather in Russia has much to do with things. It always seems to snow there. ????

 

When the UK have upwards of 6,000 warheads pointing at it I would be a tad worried as to Russia's intentions. ☹️

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, friendofthai said:

Ukraine have never completed the procedure to exit. So Vlad will cancel its exit status when convenient. Finland is not a question of internal Law of USSR. It is outside the USSR according to the WW2 borders. So we have lost it completely. No chances to get it back.

What relevance did WW2 have? It used to belong to Russia.