Don't mention the war?

[Saanim]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A mission of experts set up by Organization for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) nations has found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine, the mission said in a report on Wednesday.

The mission was set up last month by 45 of the OSCE's 57 participating states to look into possible offences in Ukraine including war crimes and to pass on information to bodies such as international tribunals. Russia opposed it.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/clear-patterns-found-that-russia-violated-humanitarian-law-ukraine-osce-2022-04-13/

Wondering why the OSCE was ordered to leave the country in February after they publicised reports about bombing of Donbas areas?

 

Is it the same OSCE?

 

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed.  

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

Wondering why the OSCE was ordered to leave the country in February after they publicised reports about bombing of Donbas areas?

 

Is it the same OSCE?

 

They evacuated Ukraine for their safety due to the Russian unprovoked invasion, clear enough for you.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A mission of experts set up by Organization for Security and Cooperation and Europe (OSCE) nations has found evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity by Russia in Ukraine, the mission said in a report on Wednesday.

The mission was set up last month by 45 of the OSCE's 57 participating states to look into possible offences in Ukraine including war crimes and to pass on information to bodies such as international tribunals. Russia opposed it.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/clear-patterns-found-that-russia-violated-humanitarian-law-ukraine-osce-2022-04-13/

The full report is a chilling read of the atrocities up till 1st April. There will be a follow up for the more recently discovered ongoing war crimes found since then.

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

How's that a lie when you are asked to evacuate due to the Russian invasion? 

 

Consequences of the ‘Temporary Evacuation’ of the OSCE from Ukraine

 

 

From the Secretary General

Due to the ongoing fighting and deteriorated security situation in Ukraine, in coordination with the Chairman-in-Office, I have decided to temporarily evacuate all international mission members from Ukraine as soon as possible.

https://www.osce.org/secretary-general/512953

[heybruce]

51 minutes ago, Saanim said:

A referendum? That's what the people of Donbas wanted. How did their govt react?

That's why the MInsk treaty was established and later another one, backed by Western powers.  And the intl. monitoring. The results? The current war.  

When was a fair, independently monitored referendum ever proposed, conducted or refused?

 

Step one of the Minsk treaty, the cessation of fighting, was never accomplished. 

 

Do you think Russia and its stooges in the break-away areas would agree to an internationally monitored referendum in which all residents prior to the 2014 split are allowed to vote?  I don't.

[Rimmer]

An post with an unattributed claim has been removed

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Whataboutery is all that they have. since they can't discuss the topic on its merits.

It does baffle me why a couple of posters on this thread, having established their credentials quite convincingly, are still being given oxygen.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

So in your world, we should continue running scared of Russia?  Let Putin decide the world order?  Fantasy? - remember what another expansionist lunatic did in 1939?  We are not dealing with a sane man who has been wronged in some way - we are dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic who has attacked a neighbour for no good reason.

Yes.

How many lives are you willing to sacrifice for Ukraine- potentially in the millions?

 

Hitler didn't do it on his own. Most of the nation was with him, because of the way they were treated  after the first war.

 

No.

It may come to war between Russia ( and potentially China ) and America and allies, but when he attacks a country that is actually in NATO or some other treaty with America.

 

we are dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic

Link to a reputable phsychiatric diagnosis please.

 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Saanim said:

 

 

But war criminal  Putin is like Hitler.

Decent people don't want the stain of that association.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But war criminal  Putin is like Hitler.

Decent people don't want the stain of that association.

To be like Hitler he'd have to kill way more people. He may not be a nice man, but he's not in the same league as Stalin, Hitler or Mao by a long chalk.

BTW Mao may have ordered the deaths of more people than any tyrant in history, but revered in China even now.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To be like Hitler he'd have to kill way more people. He may not be a nice man, but he's not in the same league as Stalin, Hitler or Mao by a long chalk.

BTW Mao may have ordered the deaths of more people than any tyrant in history, but revered in China even now.

Earlier stages.

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Putin is a real pro when it comes to cancel culture.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I am all for free speech when it is supported by facts and data. I do find the number of outright lies on this thread quite disturbing,

 

Here are some facts. Japan lost World War II, Russia won it and in doing so acquired Eastern Europe right up to half of Germany.

Japan has almost zero natural resources, Russia is awash with them. The surface of Siberia has barely been scratched.

Japan's GDP is 5 trillion dollars. Russian GDP is 1.5 trillion. The GDP of California is double that.

 

If that does not tell you how badly Russia has been misgoverned under Communism , followed by Putin, nothing will.

 

Even if Putin wins in Ukraine, which I seriously doubt, the Russian economy will be a basket case for decades. It's called a Pyrrhic victory.

 

Here's a real-life conviction test for you and other posters who seem to think Russia's claims have even passing merit. Put your money where your mouth is, go out and buy rubles.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To be like Hitler he'd have to kill way more people. He may not be a nice man, but he's not in the same league as Stalin, Hitler or Mao by a long chalk.

BTW Mao may have ordered the deaths of more people than any tyrant in history, but revered in China even now.

Give him time.

 

"Eugene Finkel, an expert on genocide at Johns Hopkins University in Bologna, Italy, said the rhetoric isn’t just “a few crazy hard-liners” spouting off. It’s coming from prominent government officials, showing up in the press, being heard on state television — and is “clearly genocidal.”"

"“They’re talking about destroying Ukrainians as a group, Ukraine as a state and as an identity community,” Finkel said. “The argument is we are going to destroy this national community as it exists and create something new that we like instead, no matter how many people we kill in the process.”"  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/13/russias-war-ukraine-founders-ominous-rhetoric-gains-ground/

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

Russia is intentionally bombing civilian targets with no military value.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Give him time.

 

"Eugene Finkel, an expert on genocide at Johns Hopkins University in Bologna, Italy, said the rhetoric isn’t just “a few crazy hard-liners” spouting off. It’s coming from prominent government officials, showing up in the press, being heard on state television — and is “clearly genocidal.”"

"“They’re talking about destroying Ukrainians as a group, Ukraine as a state and as an identity community,” Finkel said. “The argument is we are going to destroy this national community as it exists and create something new that we like instead, no matter how many people we kill in the process.”"  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/13/russias-war-ukraine-founders-ominous-rhetoric-gains-ground/

Yes.

Its genocide rhetoric.

There is no doubt at all.

[Will B Good]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Put your money where your mouth is, go out and buy rubles.

Joking aside (and I agree with the rest of your post)......the rouble, as an investment, is quite tempting.......

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Putin is a real pro when it comes to cancel culture.

I wasn't referring to Putin.

[FritsSikkink]

20 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

That is a completely separate matter - even if its true, it doesn't take away from what's going on in the Ukraine and that argument should be in its own thread.

 

Personally, I think that anyone who supports or believes Russia in any of this, needs to see a doctor.

 Of course it is very bad for the Ukrainian people, but NATO should stop putting arms in all the countries surrounding Russia. 

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Joking aside (and I agree with the rest of your post)......the rouble, as an investment, is quite tempting.......

I take it you like Atlantic City and Las Vegas as well.

The central bank in Russia has dropped the interest rate from 20% to 17%, Australia is sticking with 0.1%. I guess that's a measure of the stability of each currency.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't referring to Putin.

I was.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Of course it is very bad for the Ukrainian people, but NATO should stop putting arms in all the countries surrounding Russia. 

You think Putin would suddenly become pacifist if his neighbors were not armed?

He thought the NATO countries were weak and disunited, that was one of the factors in his decision to invade Ukraine.

It's called a deterrent, weakening the NATO alliance would be like sending Putin a postcard, come and invade us as well.

Why do you think Sweden and Finland want to join NATO? It certainly isn't to drill with broomsticks.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

 Of course it is very bad for the Ukrainian people, but NATO should stop putting arms in all the countries surrounding Russia. 

Russia should stop driving its neighbors to buy NATO arms and request NATO membership.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

 

 

Russia is attacking civilian targets with modern technology.

 

 the Russian know exactly what the purpose of missiles and bombs on civilian targets is - to create terror. I suppose that is the next step, designating Russia as a terrorist organization.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Of course it is very bad for the Ukrainian people, but NATO should stop putting arms in all the countries surrounding Russia. 

try to get your facts a little straighter please. NATO doesn't put ANY arms in ANY countries. They only lay down rules asking that various NATO countries spend 2% of a countries GDP.

[ozimoron]

28 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Russia should stop driving its neighbors to buy NATO arms and request NATO membership.

they were invited at one point if I'm not mistaken

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To be like Hitler he'd have to kill way more people. He may not be a nice man, but he's not in the same league as Stalin, Hitler or Mao by a long chalk.

BTW Mao may have ordered the deaths of more people than any tyrant in history, but revered in China even now.

Putin is a murderer, thief and poisoner and the best you can do is say he is not a nice man? How do you know how many people he has had killed as a KGB officer, or since he took power in 1999?

I suppose Idi Amin is not a nice man either, he killed less than a million people so that's OK.

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Give him time.

 

"Eugene Finkel, an expert on genocide at Johns Hopkins University in Bologna, Italy, said the rhetoric isn’t just “a few crazy hard-liners” spouting off. It’s coming from prominent government officials, showing up in the press, being heard on state television — and is “clearly genocidal.”"

"“They’re talking about destroying Ukrainians as a group, Ukraine as a state and as an identity community,” Finkel said. “The argument is we are going to destroy this national community as it exists and create something new that we like instead, no matter how many people we kill in the process.”"  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/13/russias-war-ukraine-founders-ominous-rhetoric-gains-ground/

The forced deportations go hand in hand with the genocide rhetoric. 500,000 Ukrainians forced to go to Russia so far according to the OSCE report.

 

Normally to far off places such as Siberia

[onthedarkside]

A long-running, off-topic exchange of diversion posts about World War II has been removed. The topic here is Ukraine.