28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Me, I don't care, let them kill each other, I couldn't tell a Russian from a Ukrainian and wouldn't talk to either.

There are quite a number of Ukrainian origin people in the UK, obviously more now. They are decent enough people.... 

The injustice is that the killing appears one sided,

In retrospect to the 1.5-month old, on-going  Russia Vs Ukraine  war,  it is getting fairly obvious about the following listing of major countries. 

 

Losers :   Ukraine,  Russia,   Europe ( especially bad for Germany and Switzerland ),  Japan 

 

Winners :    USA,  India,  China,  some Gulf State ( particularly Saudi A ) 

 

Mainstream Western Media and most English-language media are of course taking the liberty to portraying something else.    In these Media,  they outlined only two losers :  Russia and China 

These media do not even dare to mention Ukraine is the biggest loser after all. 

 

BTW,  Thailand is not considered major players in global politics and Thailand is neither loser or winner  IMO. 

 

May be some can't understand the list above,  but it will be long-wounded to explain all the details.   

48 minutes ago, Jiggo said:

Why are their not U.N. Observers in the Ukraine, just asking.

Is this a rhetorical inquiry or just don't know?

2 hours ago, isaray74 said:

You talk about propaganda from governments, yet you accept all the news from government Ukraine the lies from MSM, the crisis acting, making Russia look bad.  Why you make a dick of yourself here?

Personally, I check news from international sources. of course one might claim everyone of them are in cahoots to make Russia look bad. We live in a great time with individual Ukrainian citizens posting their individual witnessing of events from the Russian War on Ukraine. Does not take any real effort to "make Russia look bad", just show what Russia, in fact is doing by invading another sovereign country.

46 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

The US invasion of Iraq was just as unprovoked and illegal as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and equally worthy of condemnation. That doesn’t make current anti-Russian news reports “propaganda”; it doesn’t mean we can’t intelligently determine what news is accurate and what news is not; it doesn’t make the behavior of Putin’s soldiers in Ukraine any less revolting. Two wrongs (Russian misbehavior on top of American misbehavior) don’t make a right; and in the current conflict, there’s no doubt whatsoever which side is in the wrong.

As an American, I agree. I would differentiate in the difference with the First Gulf War, aiding Kuwait in stopping Iraq's invasion. Totally that the WMD debacle was to be condemned.

2 hours ago, isaray74 said:

You talk about propaganda from governments, yet you accept all the news from government Ukraine the lies from MSM, the crisis acting, making Russia look bad.  Why you make a dick of yourself here?

WOW ! The conspiracy theorists are back.

IIRC, the last mass murder of civilians by the US military was in 1968, at My Lai. It was followed up by exhaustive legal action against the perpetrators.  Permit me to doubt any Russian will ever be brought to justice for atrocities in Ukraine, the separatists who shot down MH17 are still at large.

 

Having said that, Russia is now an international pariah. Putin has probably done as much damage to Russia as he has to Ukraine, albeit far less visibly.

 

Thailand will do what it has always done best, sit on the fence.

If China follows Russias lead. Tourism in Thailand will be R&R for the Chinese and Russian soldiers..

Western expats will be in a rush to get out. 

I wonder what is going on with the western expats in Russia and the Ukraine that got caught up in that mess? 

 

Mongols….fragile

china…fragile…dynasties

UK….fragile…..France,USA wars

India…fragile….UK colonize

japan

germany

vietnam…fragile

indonesia

North and s. Korea….fragile

Cambodia….fragile….pol pot

cuba…fragile..

taiwan…fragile

russia…

 

OMG….it’s different this time??

 

 

 

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Move forward to the Ukraine invasion, and with satellite TV, we now know what is happening in minutes.
Therefore, it is harder to hide the facts.

But Putin and his state controlled TV will do all it can to hide them and distort the facts into an alternate reality for his Russian audience. The latest rubbish on the civilian murders in Mariupol being that it was the British who staged and set it all up, placing the bodies in the correct positions...

42 minutes ago, sscc said:

In these Media,  they outlined only two losers :  Russia and China (...)

Actually, China is one of the, if not the biggest winner(s), as they can fill up their strategic reserves tanks with dirt-cheap, discounted Russian oil that is shunned by the rest of the world.

 

Same as with the Covid-pandemic, China can only benefit from this war, as, once more, Western countries and Asian competitors are weakened, economically and politically, while the CCP snatches up the cheap Russian oil.

Russia have a <deleted> army but are good at genocide as they did in Syria

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

 

Longer this genocide goes on the more difficult it will be on global economies some reports indicate next phase will take months

 

 

3 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Actually, China is one (if not the) of the biggest winners, as they can fill up their strategic reserves tanks with dirt-cheap, discounted Russian oil that is shunned by the rest of the world.

Winner :    USA,   India,  China,  some Gulf States  ( particularly  Saudi ) 

 

I wrote a winner-loser list on this same thread half hour ago,  You can search for it

4 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Actually, China is one (if not the) of the biggest winners, as they can fill up their strategic reserves tanks with dirt-cheap, discounted Russian oil that is shunned by the rest of the world.

Correct. Having said that, the CCP is probably taking very careful note of what the international community is doing to Russia, and an invasion of Taiwan might be put on the back burner.

Since there are so many war crimes against humanity and innocent civilians, Thailand must take position against Russia. 

Otherwise they will end up as a friends of a war crime country. That would worse the reputation of Thailand.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Putin has become this era's Hitler. Negotiations are over. Ukraine must win. You don't negotiate with Hitler or Putin. 

 

Question is .............how far is Putin prepared to go ?

 

I never thought he would be mad enough to invade. ............................ I was wrong.

 

Nobody thinks he will be mad enough to use a nuclear weapon , but his troops are moving away from KIev.

 

If he did drop a bomb on Kiev ??!!!  He would calculate that NATO would not dare to retaliate for many reasons.

 

So.............what once seemed like a totally impossible scenario is now not looking so impossible.

 

Plus........he's old and apparently unwell.  Whatever mess he makes , in the end, somebody else will bear the brunt of it and have to clean it up.

1 hour ago, poyai111 said:

Terminal <deleted> - time for you to seek professional help. Tbf Trump is seeking Russian information on Biden's (Hunter) nefarious dealings with that country. All true ,all verified, unlike the Dems' request for some manufactured dirt on Trump back in the day. 

So if it's all proven/verified why is Trump asking Ruaaia (Putin) for proof? 

11 minutes ago, Denim said:

Question is .............how far is Putin prepared to go ?

How far can he go? Apparently, he cannot win this conventional warfare, as the Russian army is weaker than expected, while Ukraine gets more and more advanced military hardware from NATO. - I give this war another 1-2 months...

personally i feel the war could easily have been avoided,some diplomacy could have stopped it way way back, eastward push of NATO,now we see sanctions,they cut both ways so one must ask why are we doing this?inflation will go thru the roof poor countries starve,commodities r priced in USD,covid now this,war crimes must be investigated across the board,i want Blair and Bush in the dock the middle east is a cemetery from beirut to kabul,if people wwere shot on putins order him too,if local tactical decisions by troops there they must face the music.this whole thing is a disaster and theres no innocent party

1 minute ago, rupert the bear said:

personally i feel the war could easily have been avoided,some diplomacy could have stopped it way way back, eastward push of NATO,now we see sanctions,they cut both ways so one must ask why are we doing this?inflation will go thru the roof poor countries starve,commodities r priced in USD,covid now this,war crimes must be investigated across the board,i want Blair and Bush in the dock the middle east is a cemetery from beirut to kabul,if people wwere shot on putins order him too,if local tactical decisions by troops there they must face the music.this whole thing is a disaster and theres no innocent party

Check back on Neville Chamberlain if you want to see how well diplomacy works with dictators.

NATO did not push eastwards, countries like the Baltic states begged to be admitted. They had had enough of Russian economic "co-operation". And the Warsaw Pact.

Having experience of serving in conflict my heart goes out to those In Ukraine there is no getting away from it that Putin and his henchmen are going know where they are there for however long it takes to replace the current government with a puppet government and that will only be the beginning. Putin is nothing short of a murdering war criminal. The world must increase more severe sanctions against this monster and those countries who support him and it needs to be done immediately 

3 hours ago, Inala said:

Is Thailand so desperate for tourists that they would side with a psychopath? 

That, is a thought not soo far away from reality.

2 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

The US invasion of Iraq was just as unprovoked and illegal as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and equally worthy of condemnation. That doesn’t make current anti-Russian news reports “propaganda”; it doesn’t mean we can’t intelligently determine what news is accurate and what news is not; it doesn’t make the behavior of Putin’s soldiers in Ukraine any less revolting. Two wrongs (Russian misbehavior on top of American misbehavior) don’t make a right; and in the current conflict, there’s no doubt whatsoever which side is in the wrong.

Really, I didn't see innocent people with their hands tied behind them and shot in the head in Iraq. Women raped, and children killed. This war is dirty and Russia needs to pay the price. A good start would be ending Putin's power.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The COVID restrictions have destroyed the western economy, they desperately need 'bad guys' to point the finger of blame towards, in order to distract the proletariat. Russia or China are equally good in the role of 'bad guys'.

 

Expect several years of hate from the media.

 

The US GDP grew 6.9% in Quarter 4. That would seem to be something other than destroyed. Also, job creation hit a record in 2021. I was just back in the US for a month, and virtually everywhere there are Help Wanted signs. The number of people employed is at a record, so companies are hard pressed to attract staff.

 

Again, not quite 'destroyed'.

4 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Really, I didn't see innocent people with their hands tied behind them and shot in the head in Iraq. Women raped, and children killed. This war is dirty and Russia needs to pay the price. A good start would be ending Putin's power.

That's because America is the 'good guys' so the media don't show it.

You've not quite got the hang of propaganda yet!

Only 'bad guys' are shown doing bad things.

2 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

The US invasion of Iraq was just as unprovoked and illegal as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and equally worthy of condemnation. That doesn’t make current anti-Russian news reports “propaganda”; it doesn’t mean we can’t intelligently determine what news is accurate and what news is not; it doesn’t make the behavior of Putin’s soldiers in Ukraine any less revolting. Two wrongs (Russian misbehavior on top of American misbehavior) don’t make a right; and in the current conflict, there’s no doubt whatsoever which side is in the wrong.

How is it misbehaviour to support an oppressed minority of your own people? Normally that stuff is heroic, especially to the west. In judging this war you simply have to understand who the actual victims are.

 

Btw, any discussion of this war which doesn't address the primary issue of the Donbass Russians is irrelevant and uninteresting.

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The COVID restrictions have destroyed the western economy, they desperately need 'bad guys' to point the finger of blame towards, in order to distract the proletariat. Russia or China are equally good in the role of 'bad guys'.

 

Expect several years of hate from the media.

 

"Destroyed?" Do I need to supply you with a definition of "destroy" to show how foolish your assessment of the economic situation is.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Putin has become this era's Hitler. Negotiations are over. Ukraine must win. You don't negotiate with Hitler or Putin. 

You can't negotiate with Hitler because he's (fortunately) not available anymore. Quite contrary to Putin. 

Just now, micmichd said:

You can't negotiate with Hitler because he's (fortunately) not available anymore. Quite contrary to Putin. 

Just as futile.

War criminal Putin can't be trusted.

Period.

End of story.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Putin has become this era's Hitler. Negotiations are over. Ukraine must win. You don't negotiate with Hitler or Putin. 

If you want a secure future for the world it is essential that any attempt to take a country by force must be stopped. Sitting on the fence for short term gain eg Russian money is a recipe for disaster. Show moral strength Thailand.