I got stopped by the police on my scooter

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

So the police don't do their job. Seems to be a frequent comment on this forum. But when they do they are still doing it wrongly?

What other options do we have?  Accept that we got caught doing something we knew was wrong and face the consequences?

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, tethys said:

So if I dont go to the police station, what will happen? Can they hit me with a higher fine at the airport when I leave?

Unless you showed them a passport and they noted all the details, they dont know who you are.

[PremiumLane]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not true, government minimum insurance pays out no matter what, assuming you purchased it.

OK, I stand corrected, you will pay for everything expect around 20,000 Baht - I am sure that will soften the blow ???? 

Edited April 5, 2022 by PremiumLane

[richard_smith237]

A lot of good responses so far mixed in with a number of incorrect assumption: 

 

1) Which country is the Ops licence issued ?

2) Is the Ops licence a Motorcycle licence ?

3) It seems the IDP expired by a month.

4) The Police officer wrote a ticket for ’no licence’.

 

 

IF the Ops licence is a motorcycle licence issued from a country which is signatory to the 1968 vienna convention and his licence is in English Language - then the Op is legally riding in Thailand without an IDP. 

 

IF the Ops licence is a car licence, then he was not legally riding in Thailand (with or without an IDP).

IF the Op licence is a motorcycle licence, but it is not in English, he needs an IDP to legally ride in Thailand. 

 

The 90 day rule is somewhat vague, there is no documented information on this. 

 

Insurance - IF the bike is taxed and isured it is covered under ‘Por-ror-bor’ which is the basic compulsory insurance and will pay out basic medical costs and damages to others (fault depending of course).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

1 hour ago, tethys said:

So if I dont go to the police station, what will happen? Can they hit me with a higher fine at the airport when I leave?

Unless you showed them a passport and they noted all the details, they dont know who you are.

Agreed... The Op can just ignore the fine like everyone else does (except the foreigners scared of their own shadows)....   

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Insurance - IF the bike is taxed and isured it is covered under ‘Por-ror-bor’ which is the basic compulsory insurance and will pay out basic medical costs and damages to others (fault depending of course).

It also pays basic medical insurance to the driver.

[richard_smith237]

27 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

46 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

No it's just a common myth. 

Not a myth, but not done as much as in the past.  I've been wrongly written up for silly things in early days of driving here, and sadly, easier to simply pay, instead of fighting in court, or if license to be held captive, finding the PoPo station and waiting to pay.

 

If license not retained, simply do as locals do, and ignore the citation:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1685908/traffic-fine-defaulters-exceed-80-

The BiB are no longer permitted to retain your licence in lieu of paying a fine at the station. 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF the Ops licence is a motorcycle licence issued from a country which is signatory to the 1968 vienna convention and his licence is in English Language - then the Op is legally riding in Thailand without an IDP. 

That's a misconception by many folks.  If reading the 'convention', it states 'may' accept, not 'must' accept.  If English is not understood by the officer, then understandable why he/she did not accept it.

Also must be a 'national' license, which many countries, USA included, don't issue, to my knowledge.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

So the police don't do their job. Seems to be a frequent comment on this forum. But when they do they are still doing it wrongly?

Thats the crux of it... 

 

IF the Ops ‘Motorcycle’ licence is in English issued from a country which is signatory to the 1968 vienna convention then the BiB were wrong to write him up. 

 

(we need some facts first through). 

 

Realistically, We all know exactly how the BiB in areas such as Pattaya target motorcyclists for easy tea money - thats their sole game, to make money from easy or made up fines. 

Meanwhile they doing nothing about dangerous driving / riding, speeding and traffic light jumpers etc because that involves patrolling, it involve effort. 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The BiB are no longer permitted to retain your licence in lieu of paying a fine at the station. 

Not quite sure all follow that rule, though TBH, can't remember last time I was cited for anything, especially since speed limit on most inter province highways now 120 kph.

 

They are also supposed to have a signed checkpoint, noting what they are checking for, with supervisor on site.  Not sure how enforced that is either, as seen more than a few in my travels not adhering to that little tidbit.

[hotandsticky]

28 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Motor Vehicle Act, : 
Section 42-2 
“In case there’s a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver’s license, an alien may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license issued by such a foreign government, 

 

I stand corrected, thank you.

 

 

For those who are interested, the Motor Vehicle Act BE.2522 can be found here:-

 

https://driving-in-thailand.com/motor-vehicle-act/

 

[digibum]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

How long have you been in the country @tethys? You are aware I trust that if you stay here more than 90 days you must have a Thai driving license.

I thought the law was that the IDP is valid in Thailand for the normal length of stay that you were permitted when you entered the country.  
 

If you enter on a ME non-O, that’s 90-days. If you enter on a ME tourist visa, that’s 60-days.  If you arrive visa exempt, that’s 30-days.  
 

So, the IDP may be valid for a year, but it’s only valid in Thailand for the duration of your stay based on what they originally stamped in your passport.  Visa extensions don’t extend how long the IDP remains valid for driving in Thailand.  
 

That was always my understanding.  

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

IF the Ops licence is a motorcycle licence issued from a country which is signatory to the 1968 vienna convention and his licence is in English Language - then the Op is legally riding in Thailand without an IDP. 

That's a misconception by many folks.  If reading the 'convention', it states 'may' accept, not 'must' accept.  If English is not understood by the officer, then understandable why he/she did not accept it.

Also must be a 'national' license, which many countries, USA included, don't issue, to my knowledge.

Thats an interesting ‘technicality’ and one I’d not heard of before.

 

I was always of the understanding that one could legally drive in Thailand with a UK issued DL licence (and ride legally with a UK issued Motorcycle Licence). 

 

It seems the word ‘may’ is written into the ’translation’ of the Thai Land Traffic Act...  In the Vienna Convention to which Thailand is a signatory    the word ’Shall’ is actually used. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Traffic

[driving licences issued by a contracting party shall be recognised in the territory of another contracting party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder]

 

I’m not sure how accurate the translation of the The road traffic act is when it comes down the semantics of translating may vs shall. 

 

But, the Vienna convention is clear... 

 

So, even IF the BiB do not understand the Driving licence from an English speaking nation (not state) which is a signatory to the 1968 vienna convention on road traffic, they would be wrong to fine someone without an IDP or with an expired IDP. 

 

Thus: the ‘correctness’ of the ticket depends on which country issued the Ops licence and if it is actually a motorcycle licence and not just a car licence. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The BiB are no longer permitted to retain your licence in lieu of paying a fine at the station. 

Not quite sure all follow that rule, though TBH, can't remember last time I was cited for anything, especially since speed limit on most inter province highways now 120 kph.

 

They are also supposed to have a signed checkpoint, noting what they are checking for, with supervisor on site.  Not sure how enforced that is either, as seen more than a few in my travels not adhering to that little tidbit.

I'd bet money most BiB have no idea of that rule (from 20th Sept 2020) - The BiB don’t really learn anything from training... information, rules and regulations seem to be handed down and passed along from peers.

https://tdl-service.com/new-thai-law-means-traffic-police-cannot-confiscate-driving-licences/

 

Its been a long time since I was stopped in my car. 

I’ve been stopped a couple of times on my motorcycle in Bangkok. 

1 - Opened my helmet, the saw a foreigner and were not interested, waved me on. 

2 - riding down the centre of Vibhavadi Rangsit rd (illegally - didn’t know it until I saw the sign, was looking for an exit out of the centre to the frontage) - BiB stopped me on the exit, I was amused that I’d got caught out - slipped him 100B and rode off. 

 

In Bangkok the BiB don’t really seem interested in foreigners, in Pattaya it seems that the BiB either target foreigners or those who to get picked up have a very distorted view of events. 

In Bangkok I’ve never been stopped on my motorcycle for a random licence check etc - I think this stuff happens in Pattaya a lot... the BiB want to make quick money. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, tethys said:

Yep, thats a very good advice. Ill try to get a Thai license.

A good move for anyone living here and riding frequently - it helps avoid some of the BS. 

 

That said, as Britman pointed out earlier in the thread - IF they want, they’ll get you one way or another, it just depends who is more determined and stubborn than the other. 

 

Some will fine you for not carrying the greenbook - I never do, but carry a photocopy under the seat.

Some will fine you for not displaying your tax sticker - I never do, its under the seat so it doesn’t get stolen (I will actually use a colour photocopy of the tax sticker to display). 

 

A number of years ago, a friend was stopped, he had everything in order. The Police officer got a piece of A4 paper, held it over the licence plate and told him his plate was the wrong size & fined him !!.. my friend at the time knew no better. 

 

Ultimately, the BiB can be created souls...   The last time I was fined in a car I turned left from the second lane. The reason I did that was because there was a bin lorry parked in the left lane just before the junction. Of course, the BiB were there pulling everyone over for making this illegal move !!... 

I argued and argued and argued, the BiB even got a pen and paper out to highlight my traffic violation, I posted out that if they were doing their work, I would have been able to turn left from the correct lane instead of being forced to drive around a parked bin lorry !!... this went round in circles for about 10 mins...   in the end, I’d had enough fun and gave up - slipped him 200 baht and went on my way (all smiles and laughing, its just game). 

 

 

[Ralf001]

44 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

OK, I stand corrected, you will pay for everything expect around 20,000 Baht - I am sure that will soften the blow ???? 

 "around".

 

If you don't know the details why even bother posting.

 

Here is what the CTP insurance covers.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Ralf001

[tethys]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

How long have you been in the country @tethys? You are aware I trust that if you stay here more than 90 days you must have a Thai driving license.

Only for a month now but I didnt know this thanks for the info.

[tethys]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Unless you showed them a passport and they noted all the details, they dont know who you are.

Phew, lucky me, I didnt have a passport on me.

 

So that's why they don't let you to take your bike until you paid the fine usually.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

especially since speed limit on most inter province highways now 120 kph.

On "most"? You are dreaming. Very dedicated/selected highways only without U-turns, concrete divider etc.

[bbko]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No driving licence, 200-400bh fine.

Just think of it as a foreigner tax for driving in Thailand.

If you'd had a d/l he would have just made up another offense.

I'm carry a valid Thai license and when I'm stopped at checkpoints, they send me on my way, no fines, they don't make up some other offense.  You must either have bad luck or just perpetuating lies.

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

No it's just a common myth. If there is no valid reason to fine you for then they most likely wont fine you. I've ridden more than 200 000 km in the past decade all over Thailand and gone through uncountable police stops and never been fined unjustly. People probably started thinking that police make up reasons because a lot of people get fined for something else after showing their license but it's usually a valid infraction like no helmet, no paid road tax etc. And then there is a minority of police officers in certain places that don't know the rule or really just try to get money even by making up stuff. If they made up a justification and just wanted money then they wouldn't send you to pay at the police office, they would pocket the cash on the spot themselves. There's also always the possibility of missing information, misunderstandings etc. But if you are here for quite a while as your expired IDP suggests then it seems they might have a valid reason to fine you. Just pay it, it's not much.

Except a few weeks ago in Pattaya they asked for licence which i provided, cop a little disgruntled then asked for green book copy then he was out of options

[BritManToo]

Just now, bbko said:

I'm carry a valid Thai license and when I'm stopped at checkpoints, they send me on my way, no fines, they don't make up some other offense.  You must either have bad luck or just perpetuating lies.

On ignore.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

It also pays basic medical insurance to the driver.

yeah 30k enough to scrape you off the road

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, tethys said:

I also showed him my normal driving license.

If you live in LOS you should get a Thai driving licence.

 

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Motor Vehicle Act, : 
Section 42-2 
“In case there’s a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver’s license, an alien may drive a motor vehicle with a driver’s license issued by such a foreign government, 

Yes, but far as I know only applies for one year. I was driving in NZ on a Thai licence, but only for one year.

[tethys]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

A lot of good responses so far mixed in with a number of incorrect assumption: 

 

1) Which country is the Ops licence issued ?

2) Is the Ops licence a Motorcycle licence ?

3) It seems the IDP expired by a month.

4) The Police officer wrote a ticket for ’no licence’.

Issued in France, not in English, Motorcycle license included, expired in January 2022.

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

On "most"? You are dreaming. Very dedicated/selected highways only without U-turns, concrete divider etc.

Yes ... On most, dual / divided inter-province, they simply haven't removed the 90 kph signs.  I drive 100-120 constantly, and have yet to get a 'camera' speeding ticket, even though most still posted at 90 kph.

 

Either I'm very lucky, doubtful, or they aren't enforcing the U-turn / barrier rule.  I've gotten my share of 'camera' citations when exceeding 100, before speed limit raised from 90 kph on the same highways.

Edited April 5, 2022 by KhunLA

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, tethys said:

Issued in France, not in English, Motorcycle license included, expired in January 2022.

In that case, as your home licence is in French (language) it will need to be accompanied with a valid International Driving Permit. As that permit is out of date, the policeman was in fact correct to issue you with a ticket. 

 

You can either volunteer to pay the ticket. Or, you can simply ignore it. No much will happen if you ignore it. Actually, nothing will happen if you ignore it. 

 

As has been suggested and as you confirmed - its a good idea to get a Thai Licence. 

 

You may need a valid IDP to secure a local Licence with your national French Licence - but, its also worth giving it a shot and seeing if they will issue you a Thai Licence with your existing French licence.

If they want to see an IDP then hand them yours, they may not notice it is expired. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, bbko said:

I'm carry a valid Thai license and when I'm stopped at checkpoints, they send me on my way, no fines, they don't make up some other offense.  You must either have bad luck or just perpetuating lies.

Might you be suggesting that the scores and scores of people are lying when the BiB pull them over and make up some an infraction or deliberately misinterpret a rule or apply a rule meant for something else.... 

 

I’ve heard so many stories, many from Pattaya and Phuket, also some from Chiang Mai where BiB pull over motorcyclists and go through the motions, trying to catch them for anything.

- Licence... Ok, they have that. 

- Tax... OK, thats on display, if its not displayed, but in the bike = Fine

- GreenBook... no one carries it in their bike...  = Easy Fine for BiB if they want to)

- Exhaust... BiB will claim its too loud, how can you prove it isn’t ?

- Pillion footpegs... BiB will claim its illegal to ride with the pillion footpads out (it isn’t, but how can you argue that)

- Riding with lights on... And old time favourite.. a while back riders in some areas used to get fined for riding with the day time lights on (this no longer happens).

- Helmet visor (day time) - if its smoked, some BiB will want to find you and claim its illegal for a smoked visor, even in the day time (its only illegal at night).

- Not riding in the left lane - a common one and utter BS when riding in traffic.

- Not stopping behind the white line at lights... a common one ( a real rule )

 

 

 

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Might you be suggesting that the scores and scores of people are lying when the BiB pull them over and make up some an infraction or deliberately misinterpret a rule or apply a rule meant for something else.... 

 

I’ve heard so many stories, many from Pattaya and Phuket, also some from Chiang Mai where BiB pull over motorcyclists and go through the motions, trying to catch them for anything.

- Licence... Ok, they have that. 

- Tax... OK, thats on display, if its not displayed, but in the bike = Fine

- GreenBook... no one carries it in their bike...  = Easy Fine for BiB if they want to)

- Exhaust... BiB will claim its too loud, how can you prove it isn’t ?

- Pillion footpegs... BiB will claim its illegal to ride with the pillion footpads out (it isn’t, but how can you argue that)

- Riding with lights on... And old time favourite.. a while back riders in some areas used to get fined for riding with the day time lights on (this no longer happens).

- Helmet visor (day time) - if its smoked, some BiB will want to find you and claim its illegal for a smoked visor, even in the day time (its only illegal at night).

- Not riding in the left lane - a common one and utter BS when riding in traffic.

- Not stopping behind the white line at lights... a common one ( a real rule )

 

 

 

 

In 16 years I have probably picked 70+ fines.

 

 

All were legitimate fines in accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1979.

 

 

I am not saying that I agree with all those rules, but all my fines were kosher.

[Dart12]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 "around".

 

If you don't know the details why even bother posting.

 

Here is what the CTP insurance covers.

 

Would this apply to drivers of rental bikes as well?

and how does one prove "not at fault"?