The REAL EV vehicle discussion thread.....

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I asked, do MG's have the same batteries as Tesla, not about battery manufacturing....?

 

Does your MG have a battery heat control system...?

I can't speak for Khun LA's particular MG battery, but yes, the batteries in an MG come with thermal cooling.

[transam]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As was obvious, you haven't fact checked him. (Not surprising given that the way the information is presented (I peeked) would make it virtually impossible to do so.)

If you had, you would know that EV battery recycling is already a profitable business with lots of room for growth.

"Much like Tesla was years ago, Redwood is entering into relatively uncharted territory, and it will spend a great deal of time growing and reinvesting. However, Straubel says the actual operation of recycling the batteries is already a money maker"

https://insideevs.com/news/564366/jb-straubel-battery-recycling-profitability/#:~:text=Much like Tesla was years,is already a money maker.

 

In fact, the recycled lithium portion of the battery is actually superior in performance to the freshly mined stuff the 2nd time around.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2542435121004335

 

What's more, when the charge falls below 70%, the batteries increasingly aren't immediately disassembled and recycled but instead can be used  for industrial energy storage systems. So not only is this usefu in itself, but it allows time for the recycling industry to ramp up.

 

Old Electric-Vehicle Batteries Are Getting a Second Life

Auto makers like Nissan and Renault are using retired batteries to build large-scale energy-storage systems

https://www.wsj.com/articles/old-electric-vehicle-batteries-are-getting-a-second-life-11655114401

 

As for getting their power from fossil fueled power plants, most of the new power plants being built today are solar or wind.

Renewables Take Lion’s Share of Global Power Additions in 2021 

Renewable energy continued to expand steadily and well above the long-term trend, with share in total capacity expansion reaching new record of 81% last year

https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2022/Apr/Renewables-Take-Lions-Share-of-Global-Power-Additions-in-2021

 

 

Of course, since the installed base goes back years, there's still a lot of power plants that are fossil fueled. But that balance is shifting. So, over time EV's will contribute less and less to CO2. And unless a country's electricity comes mostly from coal, EVs still produce less CO2 than do ICE vehicles.

 

"A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=21855d362320

 

So, in conclusion, that car salesman is either an willfully ignorant or massively dishonest. I guess it could be both. 

An EV battery assembly is a complex piece of kit, I assume if one goes bad it can be pulled apart and the cells replaced, not the rest of it, same as reconditioning a piston engine, the main part of it is still used.

 

Costs of reconditioning an EV battery at the mo must be a gray area, as the man hours involved, plus cost of lithium based cells must be huge... 

 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

I asked, do MG's have the same batteries as Tesla, not about battery manufacturing....?

 

Does your MG have a battery heat control system...?

OK, your smiley says you don't know....????

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

An EV battery assembly is a complex piece of kit, I assume if one goes bad it can be pulled apart and the cells replaced, not the rest of it, same as reconditioning a piston engine, the main part of it is still used.

 

Costs of reconditioning an EV battery at the mo must be a gray area, as the man hours involved, plus cost of lithium based cells must be huge... 

 

No. Recycling means reducing the components to their basic state. Like taking all the metals and refining them back into usability.

But it's true there is beginning to be a use for reconditioned batteries. As EV's get older and need a replacement battery, using a reconditioned battery would make more sense. I think it's Nissan in Japan that charges $12000 for a new battery but only $3000 for a recondtioned one.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No. Recycling means reducing the components to their basic state. Like taking all the metals and refining them back into usability.

But it's true there is beginning to be a use for reconditioned batteries. As EV's get older and need a replacement battery, using a reconditioned battery would make more sense. I think it's Nissan in Japan that charges $12000 for a new battery but only $3000 for a recondtioned one.

Yes, reconditioning it with new cells.....????

What dollars are they, USA...?

 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

OK, your smiley says you don't know....????

Not smiling, that was laughing at you ... thought obvious, but simply means I'm not answering your stupid question any more.

 

Better things to do, than answer yours or anyone's silliness any more on this threads.  And why those, with actual experience and knowledge of and own EVs, or have a true interest in learning or sharing, avoid these threads.

 

Me, stuck in the house & bored.

[transam]

30 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not smiling, that was laughing at you ... thought obvious, but simply means I'm not answering your stupid question any more.

 

Better things to do, than answer yours or anyone's silliness any more on this threads.  And why those, with actual experience and knowledge of and own EVs, or have a true interest in learning or sharing, avoid these threads.

 

Me, stuck in the house & bored.

I don't think many are interested in you're answering, as you just turn into an MG thing...????

Your actual experience is buying a cheap EV and in its early days of ownership.

This thread is about discussing EV's in general, the pro's and con's, if you don't like it then go do something else.

Since I started this thread, I have learned a few things, which is what I wanted....???? 

 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't think many are interested in you're answering, as you just turn into an MG thing...????

Your actual experience is buying a cheap EV and in its early days of ownership.

This thread is about discussing EV's in general, the pro's and con's, if you don't like it then go do something else.

Since I started this thread, I have learned a few things, which is what I wanted....???? 

 

you might want to stop asking about MGs then.

 

you asked, I answered (tesla/mg batteries)

 

how you expect GWM & MG not to come up in a 'thai motoring' forum, about EVs, is like having a scooter thread and expect Honda or Yamaha not to be mentioned.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

you might want to stop asking about MGs then.

I was hoping you would tell me if your cheap MG had a battery cooling system as you know everything about your ride, you obviously didn't know.......

But a member answered my question for you....????

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I was hoping you would tell me if your cheap MG had a battery cooling system as you know everything about your ride, you obviously didn't know.......

But a member answered my question for you....????

Some people notice, read & type faster than myself.  I don't sit here with baited breath awaiting your next silly comment or question.

 

Aren't how many cup holders you get so much more important on those cheap Chinese junk cars.????

 

Why would you even ask, as no interest in either EV or MG.

Oh wait ... I know why ....

[transam]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Some people notice, read & type faster than myself.  I don't sit here with baited breath awaiting your next silly comment or question.

 

Aren't how many cup holders you get so much more important on those cheap Chinese junk cars.????

 

Why would you even ask, as no interest in either EV or MG.

Oh wait ... I know why ....

No interest in EV's, tell me who's thread this is.........?    ????

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

As was obvious, you haven't fact checked him. (Not surprising given that the way the information is presented (I peeked) would make it virtually impossible to do so.)

If you had, you would know that EV battery recycling is already a profitable business with lots of room for growth.

"Much like Tesla was years ago, Redwood is entering into relatively uncharted territory, and it will spend a great deal of time growing and reinvesting. However, Straubel says the actual operation of recycling the batteries is already a money maker"

https://insideevs.com/news/564366/jb-straubel-battery-recycling-profitability/#:~:text=Much like Tesla was years,is already a money maker.

 

In fact, the recycled lithium portion of the battery is actually superior in performance to the freshly mined stuff the 2nd time around.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2542435121004335

 

What's more, when the charge falls below 70%, the batteries increasingly aren't immediately disassembled and recycled but instead can be used  for industrial energy storage systems. So not only is this usefu in itself, but it allows time for the recycling industry to ramp up.

 

Old Electric-Vehicle Batteries Are Getting a Second Life

Auto makers like Nissan and Renault are using retired batteries to build large-scale energy-storage systems

https://www.wsj.com/articles/old-electric-vehicle-batteries-are-getting-a-second-life-11655114401

 

As for getting their power from fossil fueled power plants, most of the new power plants being built today are solar or wind.

Renewables Take Lion’s Share of Global Power Additions in 2021 

Renewable energy continued to expand steadily and well above the long-term trend, with share in total capacity expansion reaching new record of 81% last year

https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2022/Apr/Renewables-Take-Lions-Share-of-Global-Power-Additions-in-2021

 

 

Of course, since the installed base goes back years, there's still a lot of power plants that are fossil fueled. But that balance is shifting. So, over time EV's will contribute less and less to CO2. And unless a country's electricity comes mostly from coal, EVs still produce less CO2 than do ICE vehicles.

 

"A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=21855d362320

 

So, in conclusion, that car salesman is either an willfully ignorant or massively dishonest. I guess it could be both. 

I somehow think your peek was very cursory, because for most of the video he is railing about the lack of fact-checking by motoring journalists of puff pieces put out by committees with a very big axe to grind.

 

Here's a fact for you. Check all you want. If we stopped all carbon dioxide emissions from cars tomorrow, there would still be 92% of anthropogenic emissions of carbon dioxide remaining. EV's are only scratching the surface, yet EV owners get all hairy-chested about how they are saving the planet. ROFL.

 

IME ignorance is most frequently accompanied by laziness. I suspect you took a quick look which ran up against your confirmation biases, and could not be bothered watching what he had to say all the way through. Or you did watch, but lacked the ability to comprehend his message. Or did not want to.

 

Either way, I can't be bothered with further discussion with you. Call that laziness if you want, I don't care.

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, transam said:

Who's talking about Thailand, Thailand is having trouble setting up EV power stations. ????

How long has the next stage of electricity production been in the pipeline to take over from nuclear power..........?

 

Mae Moh in Lampang is probably one of the dirtiest power stations on the planet, fueled by lignite. The attached mine has still got over 825 million tonnes of lignite left, produces 16 million tonnes per annum.

 

The Thais certainly are not shutting it down. Just decommissioning older plant.

 

https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/thailands-egat-receives-approval-2-gw-new-coal-and-gas-fired-projects.html

 

Never mind, the EV owners drive clean cars, where the recharging electrons come from isn't relevant.

[GroveHillWanderer]

17 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I went on to say that: Batteries (and individual cells) are typically either good or bad. If it were a good bet a battery would last ten-years, everyone would be offering ten-year warranties. 

No, they wouldn't. You yourself made the point that ICE drivetrains typically last for 2 - 300,000 miles. That means it's "a good bet" they'll last that long.

 

So if what you're saying for batteries is true, the manufacturers would offer a 10-year, 200,000 mile warranty on drivetrains. But they don't, they offer (on average) a 5-year, 60,000 mile warranty.

 

No manufacturer of consumer goods (or almost none of them) offer warranties that cover the entire predicted or expected life span of their products.

 

For instance, most of the kitchen appliances we own have been going strong now for 7 or 8 years (some longer than that). But most of them came with only a one year warranty.

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I somehow think your peek was very cursory, because for most of the video he is railing about the lack of fact-checking by motoring journalists of puff pieces put out by committees with a very big axe to grind.

 

Here's a fact for you. Check all you want. If we stopped all carbon dioxide emissions from cars tomorrow, there would still be 92% of anthropogenic emissions of carbon dioxide remaining. EV's are only scratching the surface, yet EV owners get all hairy-chested about how they are saving the planet. ROFL.

 

IME ignorance is most frequently accompanied by laziness. I suspect you took a quick look which ran up against your confirmation biases, and could not be bothered watching what he had to say all the way through. Or you did watch, but lacked the ability to comprehend his message. Or did not want to.

 

Either way, I can't be bothered with further discussion with you. Call that laziness if you want, I don't care.

I addressed virtually every point you made in your post and debunked all the claims you raised made by that person.

You addressed not one of those points of mine.

Instead, you raised a new point.

That tells me you're running on nothing but faith and hero worship.

You've got nothing. 

But I did enjoy the irony of a person who couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to refute any point I raised but instead accuses me of laziness. On that score, you might want to look a little closer to home.

 

But to address that new point of yours, 8% reduction is a lot from one source. What's more, there's a huge benefit to public health via big reductions in air pollution. Particularly in cities.

https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/74715/E86650.pdf

 

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No, they wouldn't. You yourself made the point that ICE drivetrains typically last for 2 - 300,000 miles. That means it's "a good bet" they'll last that long.

 

So if what you're saying for batteries is true, the manufacturers would offer a 10-year, 200,000 mile warranty on drivetrains. But they don't, they offer (on average) a 5-year, 60,000 mile warranty.

 

No manufacturer of consumer goods (or almost none of them) offer warranties that cover the entire predicted or expected life span of their products.

 

For instance, most of the kitchen appliances we own have been going strong now for 7 or 8 years (some longer than that). But most of them came with only a one year warranty.

No manufacturer would offer a warranty on vehicles that matched the expected life, the service departments of car dealerships would go broke. Dealerships don't make all that much profit on cars, maintenance is where the gravy is. The trick is to offer a warranty that matches present customer expectations, and enough reliability thereafter to have the buyer want to repeat with that brand.

The American car industry in the 70's shot itself in the foot when it let the bean counters run riot, cutting costs at the expense of quality. It left the door wide open for the Japanese, and they gleefully entered.

A lot of the early Japanese models were copies, e.g. Toyota copied Merc engines, Datsun copied Massey-Ferguson. Then they improved them.

[Yellowtail]

29 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No, they wouldn't. You yourself made the point that ICE drivetrains typically last for 2 - 300,000 miles. That means it's "a good bet" they'll last that long.

And you yourself ignored where I pointed out that while they would likely last that long, they would over that period require repairs that would make a warranty cost prohibitive. 

 

29 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

So if what you're saying for batteries is true, the manufacturers would offer a 10-year, 200,000 mile warranty on drivetrains. But they don't, they offer (on average) a 5-year, 60,000 mile warranty.

Battery cells are good until they go bad, they generally do not get repaired, the cells get replaced. 

 

If they thought it would boost sales, all the ICEV manufacturers would happily offer a 20 year warranty on their fuel tanks, which is effectively what a battery is. But virally no one has a problem with fuel tanks, most everyone has ha to replace batteries. 

 

29 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No manufacturer of consumer goods (or almost none of them) offer warranties that cover the entire predicted or expected life span of their products.

 

For instance, most of the kitchen appliances we own have been going strong now for 7 or 8 years (some longer than that). But most of them came with only a one year warranty.

This is only partially true. Many manufactures warranty major components for the full expected lifespan. For example, air conditioner manufacturers often warranty the compressor for ten years, and washing machines often offer ten-year warranties on the motor. 

 

They offer these as it is good marketing, and it costs them almost nothing. It is very unlikely the motors and or compressors will fail, and if they do, the manufacturer can often back-charge their supplier. 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I addressed virtually every point you made in your post and debunked all the claims you raised made by that person.

You addressed not one of those points of mine.

Instead, you raised a new point.

That tells me you're running on nothing but faith and hero worship.

You've got nothing. 

But I did enjoy the irony of a person who couldn't be bothered to lift a finger to refute any point I raised but instead accuses me of laziness. On that score, you might want to look a little closer to home.

 

But to address that new point of yours, 8% reduction is a lot from one source. What's more, there's a huge benefit to public health via big reductions in air pollution. Particularly in cities.

https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/74715/E86650.pdf

 

What points? It's all virtue signalling by EV fanboys. How much in funding do you think the researchers of those gushing position papers get? Follow the money.

 

I would probably be looking at an EV myself if my Vios carks it, provided prices become competitive with ICE's. There's no argument EV's are cheaper to run by a big margin.

What I don't swallow are the BS claims they are saving the planet, and EV owners are environmentally more responsible than ICE owners.

 

8% reduction is a lot? i guess you'd be happy if a bank kept 92% of your deposits.

 

My only hero is Ben Hogan.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

What points? It's all virtue signalling by EV fanboys. How much in funding do you think the researchers of those gushing position papers get? Follow the money.

 

I would probably be looking at an EV myself if my Vios carks it, provided prices become competitive with ICE's. There's no argument EV's are cheaper to run by a big margin.

What I don't swallow are the BS claims they are saving the planet, and EV owners are environmentally more responsible than ICE owners.

 

8% reduction is a lot? i guess you'd be happy if a bank kept 92% of your deposits.

 

My only hero is Ben Hogan.

 

Now you're reverting to name calling and evidence-free accusations against scientists. The only evidence your text provides is evidence that you've got nothing.

And such ridiculous hyperbole as "BS claims that they are saving the planet" shows how much nothing you've got.

And your bank analogy is ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense. How is reducing a liability by 8 percent equivalent to a bank keeping 92 percent of your assets? Not surprising that you trust a car salesman via video to explain science to you.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Now you're reverting to name calling and evidence-free accusations against scientists. The only evidence your text provides is evidence that you've got nothing.

And such ridiculous hyperbole as "BS claims that they are saving the planet" shows how much nothing you've got.

And your bank analogy is ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense. How is reducing a liability by 8 percent equivalent to a bank keeping 92 percent of your assets? Not surprising that you trust a car salesman via video to explain science to you.

Who is doing the name-calling? Your statements I have got nothing are simply arguing in a circle.

You repeat the claim the guy is a car salesman. He's not, but that is irrelevant to your narrative.

 

Tell me how any EV owner can be saving the planet when they are getting fresh electrons from the Mae Moh power station, the biggest and dirtiest in Thailand.

 

Here's another video for you, I'll save you the strain of watching it all the way through. Just look at the 9 minute 40 second graphic.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Now you're reverting to name calling and evidence-free accusations against scientists. The only evidence your text provides is evidence that you've got nothing.

And such ridiculous hyperbole as "BS claims that they are saving the planet" shows how much nothing you've got.

And your bank analogy is ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense. How is reducing a liability by 8 percent equivalent to a bank keeping 92 percent of your assets? Not surprising that you trust a car salesman via video to explain science to you.

YES! Tell him about how Norway get virtually all their power alternative sources and how Germany and most of Europe no longer relies on fossil fuels!!!!!!!!!!!

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Who is doing the name-calling? Your statements I have got nothing are simply arguing in a circle.

You repeat the claim the guy is a car salesman. He's not, but that is irrelevant to your narrative.

 

Tell me how any EV owner can be saving the planet when they are getting fresh electrons from the Mae Moh power station, the biggest and dirtiest in Thailand.

 

Here's another video for you, I'll save you the strain of watching it all the way through. Just look at the 9 minute 40 second graphic.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Who is doing the name-calling? Your statements I have got nothing are simply arguing in a circle.

You repeat the claim the guy is a car salesman. He's not, but that is irrelevant to your narrative.

 

Tell me how any EV owner can be saving the planet when they are getting fresh electrons from the Mae Moh power station, the biggest and dirtiest in Thailand.

 

Here's another video for you, I'll save you the strain of watching it all the way through. Just look at the 9 minute 40 second graphic.

 

 

First off, asserting "You've got nothing" isn't name calling. I'm arguing you have nothing because you never respond to points I've raised with facts but only name calling and unbacked accusations.  And because you keep on raising new points rather than answer my replies. And now you've done it again.

Can't you ever produce anything that's written? Are videos all you've got? Find me something in writing from this Graham Conway person and I'll read it. All I know of him is that he's an engineer and works for a company whose clients are from the oil and gas industry.

 

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

YES! Tell him about how Norway get virtually all their power alternative sources and how Germany and most of Europe no longer relies on fossil fuels!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me something. What percentage of these countries' electricity now comes from solar and wind. How does that compare to 10 years ago? Do you see a trend there? 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Tell me something. What percentage of these countries' electricity now comes from solar and wind. How does that compare to 10 years ago?

Virtually none of Norway's and little of Germany's. Germany installed a lot of capacity, but that's not really what actually gets used. 

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you see a trend there? 

Yes, about 2% of capacity over the last twenty years has shifted to wind and solar, while reliance on fossil fuels has actually increased. 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Tell me something. What percentage of these countries' electricity now comes from solar and wind. How does that compare to 10 years ago? Do you see a trend there? 

It's a work in progress.  Big Oil still has a stronghold in most countries.  

 

For Thailand, every single home should have some level of solar, and it's just silly not to.   No incentive from gov't to install, and it's actually discouraged by PEA.

 

5kW inverters OK, approved by PEA, 8kW, not really, as that means you can be independent of PEA, since provides more than enough to run most household.

 

10kW, only for 3 phase, I think.  Some PEA offices are strict, others lax.

 

Some countries, the options are limited, others, no reason not to have.

 

Price of installing solar in USA is outrageous compared to Thailand.  Literally 3X as much for a basic hybrid system w/ ESS, $10k USD vs $30k & up, that's crazy.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Virtually none of Norway's and little of Germany's. Germany installed a lot of capacity, but that's not really what actually gets used. 

 

Yes, about 2% of capacity over the last twenty years has shifted to wind and solar, while reliance on fossil fuels has actually increased. 

Got any links to prove your ridiculous claims?

[vinny41]

19 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you even read what I said? What I said was: There are a lot of relatively minor things that can go wrong with an ICE as it gets older which would nickel and dime manufacturers to death. If it were a good bet they'd last ten-years/200,000km with little or no attention, everyone would offer ten-years/200,000km warranties except companies desperate for market share, and they would be offering 15-years/300,000km. i 

 

It is common for the engine/drivetrain to 100, 200 and even 300,000 miles, but not without some attention, and that attention can be great for dealerships providing warranty service, but it can really hurt the manufacturer. 

 

I went on to say that: Batteries (and individual cells) are typically either good or bad. If it were a good bet a battery would last ten-years, everyone would be offering ten-year warranties. 

 

Manufacturers typically offer as long a warranty as is cost effective.

 

The Ford F-150 Lightning sells for about 20% more than a comparably equipped ICE F-150 and it is sold out for three years production and they are losing money on every unit. 

In some countries the duration of the warranty is enforced by Goverment agencies In  the US they have stated if you want to sell 

Most automakers have an 8 to 10-year or 100,000 miles warranty period on their batteries. This is because federal regulation in the U.S. mandates that electric car batteries be covered for a minimum of eight years.

https://www.greencars.com/guides/definitive-guide-to-electric-car-batteries-range

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's a work in progress.  Big Oil still has a stronghold in most countries.  

How? 

 

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

For Thailand, every single home should have some level of solar, and it's just silly not to.   No incentive from gov't to install, and it's actually discouraged by PEA.

If the payback is so great, why should it be incentivized? Why effective take money from the poor and give it to the rich? 

 

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

5kW inverters OK, approved by PEA, 8kW, not really, as that means you can be independent of PEA, since provides more than enough to run most household.

 

10kW, only for 3 phase, I think.  Some PEA offices are strict, others lax.

 

Some countries, the options are limited, others, no reason not to have.

 

Price of installing solar in USA is outrageous compared to Thailand.  Literally 3X as much for a basic hybrid system w/ ESS, $10k USD vs $30k & up, that's crazy.

So? 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How? 

 

If the payback is so great, why should it be incentivized? Why effective take money from the poor and give it to the rich? 

 

So? 

How & so should be self explanatory.  If not, I can't be bothered.

 

Incentives, yes, as many don't have a spare 100-350k sitting around, to wait for a 5 or 10 ROI.  Doesn't take anything from the poor and give to the rich, quite the opposite, and makes the poor non dependent on the rich.

 

Frees up the grid, even feeds the grid for others, locations, complexes that can't self generate enough energy.   That's a win win all around.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

And you yourself ignored where I pointed out that while they would likely last that long, they would over that period require repairs that would make a warranty cost prohibitive. 

You've just proved my point again. There's no reason why the exact same argument you've just made for drivetrains wouldn't apply equally to batteries. The majority are likely to last getting on for 20 years, according to the data but guaranteeing all of them for that long would be cost prohibitive.

 

Quote

Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use

HOW LONG SHOULD AN ELECTRIC CAR’S BATTERY LAST?

 

 

Also, a battery is not the equivalent of a fuel tank and it's ridiculous to pretend that it is. A fuel tank is nothing more than an empty metal box.

 

See @Lacessit's post for a further explanation of why most manufacturers don't offer a warranty for the full life of a product.

 

As stated therein, "No manufacturer would offer a warranty on vehicles that matched the expected life, the service departments of car dealerships would go broke."