Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  Please stay on topic.

 

[spidermike007]

20 hours ago, heybruce said:

"What you do have so far is a one-sided story put out by a media who has clearly shown they are propagandists."

 

While the Hunter Biden laptop story you and others keep bringing up is, well, a perfect fit for your description.

 

"The U.S. is not a democracy.  It's a Republic."

 

Why do some people have so much trouble grasping the concept of a democratic republic?

I sure remember the narrative the conservative media were putting out around January 6th. Both sides are propagandists, and so are their media cohorts. It is simply a broken system. 

[pegman]

Seems the Feds took Trump's passports. That can't be good. Can it?

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Slickrick said:

Any fair-minded person can see that this was the only way the FBI, (even though they were there 2 months prior coordinating all of this and everything was fine) could get into Trumps home to actually search for anything and everything, looking for a smoking gun, and trying to make a J6 out of all this.  An investigation in search of a crime.

Any fair minded person can see that Trump had classified documents that didn't belong to him, kept them in an insecure location, refused to give them up, denied having them, then had them seized in a legally approved raid after months of talk failed to get them returned.  An obvious crime that warranted an investigation.

 

Not even Trump and his team deny the above.

 

The response of you and other Trump supporters:  Ignore the obvious truth of the situation and speculate about the sinister motives of the government.

Edited August 15, 2022 by heybruce

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

Do you understand that the office of the potus has absolute sweeping power to declassify anywhere anytime and that many Americans especially this one feel his detractors are fringed in over reaching again

Do you understand that there is no record of Trump ever declassifying these documents, that he had no right to possess them regardless of classification, that he failed to return them and lied about possessing them?

 

Crimes have definitely been committed and Trump and his people are in deep.  It only remains to be seen what charges will be filed.  And don't repeat the childish question of "Why haven't any charges been filed yet?", that one has been answered repeatedly.

Edited August 15, 2022 by heybruce

[talahtnut]

Trump popularity is increasing, the democrats are, as usual,

trying anuthing to discredit Trump any way the can. This last

episode, Mar a Lago, has accented the corruption of the DOJ and the Democrats.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by talahtnut
addition

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Trump popularity is increasing, the democrats are, as usual,

trying anuthing to discredit Trump any way the can. This last

episode, Mar a Lago, has accented the corruption of the DOJ and the Democrats.

 

No, it's accented the corruption of Trump. 

 

Obviously crimes were committed, but Trump's base refuses to see the obvious.

[Jingthing]

Private citizen Trump now claims all his passports were "stolen" from his safe. Of course we can't necessarily believe one word that he posts on "Truth" Social but if this is true, that would say an awful lot. One best case theory for Trump is that the Archives people only wanted the documents back. Documents it has been revealed worth BILLIONS of dollars if sold to enemies. Taking his passports seems to strongly indicate that he will be indicted (the listed crimes carry many many years of prison if convicted) and that he is (reasonably) seen as a FLIGHT RISK. 

 

Trump accuses FBI of stealing his ‘three’ passports in Mar-a-Lago search | The Independent

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Trump popularity is increasing, the democrats are, as usual,

trying anuthing to discredit Trump any way the can. This last

episode, Mar a Lago, has accented the corruption of the DOJ and the Democrats.

 

No, it's accented the corruption of Trump. 

 

Obviously crimes were committed, but Trump's base refuses to see the obvious.

[bendejo]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Private citizen Trump now claims all his passports were "stolen" from his safe. Of course we can't necessarily believe one word that he posts on "Truth" Social but if this is true, that would say an awful lot. One best case theory for Trump is that the Archives people only wanted the documents back. Documents it has been revealed worth BILLIONS of dollars if sold to enemies. Taking his passports seems to strongly indicate that he will be indicted (the listed crimes carry many many years of prison if convicted) and that he is (reasonably) seen as a FLIGHT RISK. 

 

Trump accuses FBI of stealing his ‘three’ passports in Mar-a-Lago search | The Independent

I've been anticipating him going on the lam, looks like the FBI has as well. 

My guess is he could do it with an unmarked private jet, a MAGA-sympathetic official to look the other way, and of course a pile of $$$.  As to "where" my first guesses would be Putinland, Belarus or Hungary.  Second tier would be Brazil (as long as Bolsonaro is in office) and then into Paraguay, which is a black hole of corruption (if you doubt that ask any Brazilian ).  North Korea to be with his long-distance lover?

But this won't be necessary now that Marco Rubio and Rand Paul are on the case.

Rand Paul Demands Law Donald Trump Could Go to Jail Over Be Repealed Immediately

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by bendejo

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, bendejo said:

I've been anticipating him going on the lam, looks like the FBI has as well. 

My guess is he could do it with an unmarked private jet, a MAGA-sympathetic official to look the other way, and of course a pile of $$$.  As to "where" my first guesses would be Putinland, Belarus or Hungary.  Second tier would be Brazil (as long as Bolsonaro is in office) and then into Paraguay, which is a black hole of corruption (if you doubt that ask any Brazilian ).  North Korea to be with his long-distance lover?

But this won't be necessary now that Marco Rubio and Rand Paul are on the case.

Rand Paul Demands Law Donald Trump Could Go to Jail Over Be Repealed Immediately

 

 

I doubt they would really send him to prison. I think they could do a compromise because he was a president. Lock him up at Mar a Lago. 

[pegman]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

I've been anticipating him going on the lam, looks like the FBI has as well. 

My guess is he could do it with an unmarked private jet, a MAGA-sympathetic official to look the other way, and of course a pile of $$$.  As to "where" my first guesses would be Putinland, Belarus or Hungary.  Second tier would be Brazil (as long as Bolsonaro is in office) and then into Paraguay, which is a black hole of corruption (if you doubt that ask any Brazilian ).  North Korea to be with his long-distance lover?

But this won't be necessary now that Marco Rubio and Rand Paul are on the case.

Rand Paul Demands Law Donald Trump Could Go to Jail Over Be Repealed Immediately

 

 

I've been thinking more along the lines of a Russian sub off the coast of Palm Beach. He could take a row boat out from his club  for the rendezvous. Someone else would have to come to row for him because as everyone knows the tub of lard refuses to exert any energy himself. 

[heybruce]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I doubt they would really send him to prison. I think they could do a compromise because he was a president. Lock him up at Mar a Lago. 

I think Trump has been operating a financial shell game--shuffling around income from properties and loans, many from questionable sources, to stave off foreclosure on his highly leveraged properties.  The shell game would come to an end with either conviction and house arrest or flight to a friendly country; his house of cards would collapse. 

 

Trump may be well and truly trapped this time.  One can only  hope.

[Walker88]

11 hours ago, riclag said:

Id like to see your source for that ! Maybe true for others but the office of the Potus has broad sweeping absolute over everything and anybody “at anytime “ , in fact he only needs to speak it.

No, that is incorrect.

 

There is a protocol. I can't believe the cultists cannot even take one second to consider the ramifications if what they have decided to believe, based on yet another 45 lie, were true.

 

POTUS has to request declassification. The specific document is then run passed relevant agency heads to make sure there is no possible damage resulting from the declassification. Once signed off, the original classification headers are removed and "DECLASSIFIED: is stamped on each document. That stamp then tells anyone who subsequently sees the document that it neither requires special handling nor must be kept in a SCIF or secure facility.

 

45 did none of this with all those docs. Even his former NatSec Bolton said 45 was lying.

 

There is a very good reason there is a protocol. Suppose the CIA had a deep penetration of putin, maybe an intercept or even had medvedev recruited as a clandestine asset. The DCI would obviously object if someone like 45 wanted to declassify that knowledge (such material would be classified TS/SCI because the identity would fall under "Sensitive Compartmentalized Information").

 

Can you get past your teenager crush on the bloated liar long enough to understand that and the danger 'instant declassification' represents?

 

Also, some material is classified RD, Restricted Data. That is the highest classification, beyond TS/SCI. Not even a POTUS can declassify this, as it falls under the AEA.

 

There are the facts:

 

1) 45 removed docs he had no right to remove nor keep

2) He lied about returning all docs he had taken

3) DoJ secured a warrant to go remove the remaining docs 45 had lied about

4) 45 has thrown out myriad excuses since the search, all of which are lies

[Walker88]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I doubt they would really send him to prison. I think they could do a compromise because he was a president. Lock him up at Mar a Lago. 

Actually, I believe that not only would they imprison him---or as former DirNSA and DCI Gen Hayden said 'execute him'---but they must do it.

 

It must be demonstrated that in the US, NOBODY is above the law, not even a defeated POTUS. If one endangers the security and safety of 330 million Americans, there must be a price paid. It must be shown not only to Americans that nobody is above the law, but the world must also see it.

 

South Korea, a vibrant and modern democracy, jailed 3 former Prime Ministers. If South Korea can do it, surely the US can.

 

45 has at least one potential capital charge stemming from his behavior re 6 January 2021: Sedition.

 

If there is evidence that he intended to monetize the documents he stole (it is theft, as he had no more right to those docs than anyone reading this), that is "Conspiracy to Commit Espionage", another capital offense. That his cult would go apoplectic is no reason not to follow the law. They are already apoplectic because of his constant lies (he lost the election, the search warrant was 100% legal)

 

Let the law work the same as it would for any other American. He is owed nothing by virtue of what he once was. That is not how the US works.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Walker88

[LosLobo]

This is interesting, it details and debunks the myriad of conflicting lies Trump has told. 

 

Quite a contrast to the evidence-based narrative coming from the DOJ.

There has NEVER been a Democrat as FBI Director. All FBI directors, starting w/ Hoover in 1924 have been Republicans.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by LosLobo

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

You sure about that?

"The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit endorsed that view in a 2020 decision, saying that “declassification, even by the President, must follow established procedures.”

In that case, the appeals court denied an effort by the New York Times to obtain documents about a covert Central Intelligence Agency operation in Syria. The newspaper had argued then-President Trump declassified the program by tweeting about it and making other public comments."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-search-of-mar-a-lago-achieved-doj-top-priority-get-the-documents-11660512503#:~:text=The U.S. Court,making other public comments.

It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress.

 

I can see no other reason than the fact that they are lying to themselves or lack the ability to understand what is written down in US law.

 

If that is the case, then all of the great posts by many folks on here, including @Walker88, @placeholder and @Chomper Higgot, to name just a few, are in vain, a bit like casting pearls to swine. The trump supporters here are indeed a lost cause.

 

The only concern I have, and one which they are hoping will come to fruition, is that even if the lard tub is found guilty of any one of a number of charges, that the powers that be do not have the cojones to jail him because they fear what his right-wing nut jobs will do, which is a sad indictment of where the US is at this moment in time.

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Private citizen Trump now claims all his passports were "stolen" from his safe. Of course we can't necessarily believe one word that he posts on "Truth" Social but if this is true, that would say an awful lot. One best case theory for Trump is that the Archives people only wanted the documents back. Documents it has been revealed worth BILLIONS of dollars if sold to enemies. Taking his passports seems to strongly indicate that he will be indicted (the listed crimes carry many many years of prison if convicted) and that he is (reasonably) seen as a FLIGHT RISK. 

 

Trump accuses FBI of stealing his ‘three’ passports in Mar-a-Lago search | The Independent

Looks like they were taken but also either returned or ready for return according to this. It was also the DOJ that alerted Trump to this beforehand but he then decided to make his accusations on the "Truth Social" platform that they were stolen.

 

1) DOJ obtained three passports (two expired, not one, as Trump said) and alerted Trump lawyers

2) They were recovered by a filter team, which weeds out privileged info.

3) Trump publicized this after DOJ offered them back

 

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1559324841681063936

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Looks like they were taken but also either returned or ready for return according to this. It was also the DOJ that alerted Trump to this beforehand but he then decided to make his accusations on the "Truth Social" platform that they were stolen.

 

1) DOJ obtained three passports (two expired, not one, as Trump said) and alerted Trump lawyers

2) They were recovered by a filter team, which weeds out privileged info.

3) Trump publicized this after DOJ offered them back

 

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1559324841681063936

 

 

As much as he states the rhetoric needs to be ramped down, he sure keeps ratcheting it back up. THe man is truly trying his best to create an atmosphere where when and if he is charged a major riot will erupt and one worse than January 6th....of course that is my view.  He will have also tainted and possible jury pools and so the case will end up having to be heard by a Judge only, which he would then have a 50/50 chance of surviving or having true judgement passed upon him.  However, I see his personal business dealings creating far more issues for him and his family.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, pegman said:

Seems the Feds took Trump's passports. That can't be good. Can it?

Opinions differ, but I personally think it’s very good.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Trump popularity is increasing, the democrats are, as usual,

trying anuthing to discredit Trump any way the can. This last

episode, Mar a Lago, has accented the corruption of the DOJ and the Democrats.

 

To be fair, you have used a cartoon as your compelling evidence.

[SunnyinBangrak]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress.

 

I can see no other reason than the fact that they are lying to themselves or lack the ability to understand what is written down in US law.

 

If that is the case, then all of the great posts by many folks on here, including @Walker88, @placeholder and @Chomper Higgot, to name just a few, are in vain, a bit like casting pearls to swine. The trump supporters here are indeed a lost cause.

 

The only concern I have, and one which they are hoping will come to fruition, is that even if the lard tub is found guilty of any one of a number of charges, that the powers that be do not have the cojones to jail him because they fear what his right-wing nut jobs will do, which is a sad indictment of where the US is at this moment in time.

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

 

 

[Thailand]

Oh no, not more bad news!

 

"A federal judge orders that Lindsey Graham MUST testify before the Georgia criminal grand jury investigating Trump's 2020 election interference."

[JonnyF]

11 hours ago, Kwaibill said:

Yes. For the, shall we say "less sophisticated" of the public yammering " why didn't they arrest him, then?", it is because of a principle in American jurisprudence of a "presumption of innocence" until he has been indicted, tried, and convicted, if that is even the purpose here.

Absolutely right. It would seem a large proportion of the people on this thread would do well to bear this in mind.

 

The whole "they wouldn't have raided him unless he was guilty" narrative is most unbecoming.

[Bkk Brian]

40 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

This is interesting, it details and debunks the myriad of conflicting lies Trump has told. 

 

Quite a contrast to the evidence-based narrative coming from the DOJ.

There has NEVER been a Democrat as FBI Director. All FBI directors, starting w/ Hoover in 1924 have been Republicans.

 

 

Excellent summary of the lies and deception put out so far by Trump and his cult. Thanks

[androokery]

7 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

 

 

You don't know the contents of these documents. Are you that confident in Trump's declassification powers that you don't mind if the documents become public as a result of your argument? Have you learned nothing? 

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

 

 

Denial is not a River in Egypt, it is the constant belief that the lies Trump is telling have created a block in peoples minds as to what things truly are, and not truly as Trump see's them....He did not win against being impeached, he was impeached, his finances are under fire, his foundation is under fire, and the man is being shown to have criminal tendencies and culpability.  His time in the sun has come to an end, and the orange man will pay a penance, but how much will have to wait.  Could it be a slap on the wrist or more, only time will tell, but it will come down to a decision having to be made on all fronts.  Trump believes he is still playing a part in this Government, just like his show the apprentice....

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Absolutely right. It would seem a large proportion of the people on this thread would do well to bear this in mind.

 

The whole "they wouldn't have raided him unless he was guilty" narrative is most unbecoming.

No more so that the ‘lock her up’ chants that were the encore of so many Trump and rightwing rallies.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Absolutely right. It would seem a large proportion of the people on this thread would do well to bear this in mind.

 

The whole "they wouldn't have raided him unless he was guilty" narrative is most unbecoming.

Please post a quote herein this OP where anyone has said:

 

"they wouldn't have raided him unless he was guilty" 

[EVENKEEL]

The conspiracies are never ending. They could be worth billions, names of deep cover operatives and on and on.

 

For me it brings on a larger concern over how truly sensitive docs are handled and stored. Am I to believe that these sensitive materials which are detrimental to the security to the USA are stored in card board boxes at the White House which is where the first 15 boxes came from. The materials from this last search and seizure also came from the White House or so I read. Were these materials kept in a secure vault that Trump opened and then threw them in a box?

 

Or were they merely stacked up in a room accessible to many? Hopefully along the way of going after Trump some different security protocols will be established.