Enoch Powell, he wasnt wrong in his forecast !

[peterfranks]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Xenophobia IS racism

No it's not, it's nationalism.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

No it's not, it's nationalism.

Nationalism is likewise racist.

 

There is a close relationship between nationalism and racism. They can’t really be separated out and allocated to different disciplines of research.

 

Colonialism occupied a central place in the national identity narrative of the imperial powers, a point that many nationalism scholars tended to pass over, with the notable exception of Eric Hobsbawm (Reference Hobsbawm1983). With a rise in immigration from the former colonies in the 1960s, racism and the question of colonial legacies became a more prominent feature of domestic politics in many European countries.

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/nationalities-papers/article/racism-and-nationalism/B41832A63712E513B3B5F3C09B8DEEF5

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Since when has academic achievement been the only measure of a person's broader knowledge, education and awareness?

 

That's almost as absurd as this earlier, fawning but totally unfounded opinion.

 

It’s worse than that.

Powell had the education, the intellect and the military experience to understand precisely how wrong and how dangerous the racist views he was expressing were.

 

He was a horrible despicable man.

 

The fact that by education, intellect and experience he had to understand how wrong and dangerous were his words  only makes him even worse.

 

 

[peterfranks]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Nationalism is likewise racist.

All racists are nationalist, the other way around only exists in the heads of a woke

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, peterfranks said:

All racists are nationalist, the other way around only exists in the heads of a woke

The truth is the exact reverse of your hypothesis.

[Mac Mickmanus]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRyS86tD/

 

   That was back when people used to talk and the other listened and people used to get their point across  and they were given time to speak "paragraphs "

   These days interviews just seem to people shouting at each other and interrupting each other and not giving each other time to speak .

   If that interview was today , others would have either shouted him down, interrupted him or stormed off stage or the audience with have joined in either booing or applauding or jeering and he would have struggled to get one coherent sentence out 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRyS86tD/

 

   That was back when people used to talk and the other listened and people used to get their point across  and they were given time to speak "paragraphs "

   These days interviews just seem to people shouting at each other and interrupting each other and not giving each other time to speak .

   If that interview was today , others would have either shouted him down, interrupted him or stormed off stage or the audience with have joined in either booing or applauding or jeering and he would have struggled to get one coherent sentence out 

You've been watching too much Greg Gutfield.

[proton]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s just take one single point from your stream of Ill-informed contribution.

 

The UK’s NHS would collapse tomorrow if not for the tens of thousands of immigrants working to prop it up.

 

 

If they were not there the indigenous population would be, also the people they are caring for are, in some areas, mostly other foreigners!

[ozimoron]

27 minutes ago, proton said:

If they were not there the indigenous population would be, also the people they are caring for are, in some areas, mostly other foreigners!

Existing research tells us that international migration is good for the NHS.

 

The NHS needs more staff from overseas, not less. Staffing shortages in the NHS currently stand at around 100,000 – and could grow to 250,000 or more by 2030. Even with other policy action and investment, we estimate that the NHS will need to recruit an additional 5,000 international nurses a year until 2023/24 just to stay afloat.

 

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/blogs/immigration-and-the-nhs-the-evidence

 

[OnTheLash]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah for sure we do have some self opinionated thickos now its Aseannow.

My dog was a black & white sheep dog.

My Dog was Black and Brown with a small White area. 

 

His name is Birmingham!!

[OnTheLash]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Odd you should mention Bradford, with your snide dig.

 

I recommend watching the TV series ‘Bradford on Duty’.

 

It’s a fly on the wall look at people in public service working for the good of the Bradford community.

 

It’s an excellent look at Bradford people from a wide range of ethnic and religious backgrounds demonstrating the very best values of community, real British values.

 

You of course might not like it.

Sounds riveting!

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Existing research tells us that international migration is good for the NHS.

 

The NHS needs more staff from overseas, not less. Staffing shortages in the NHS currently stand at around 100,000 – and could grow to 250,000 or more by 2030. Even with other policy action and investment, we estimate that the NHS will need to recruit an additional 5,000 international nurses a year until 2023/24 just to stay afloat.

 

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/blogs/immigration-and-the-nhs-the-evidence

 

I'm not against managed immigration, but I think the flaw in your argument is that rapid population growth over the past few decades has driven the need for more staff and resources in the NHS. Swings and roundabouts, right? 

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not against managed immigration, but I think the flaw in your argument is that rapid population growth over the past few decades has driven the need for more staff and resources in the NHS. Swings and roundabouts, right? 

If you're implying that the only reason they need the immigrant staff is because of more immigrants then no. That argument is mathematically improbable.

 

Economies in general require a pyramid structure in order to remain viable and provide a healthy tax base. This requires an ever larger population growth, a kind of ponzi scheme if you will but not one our economies are equipped to do without. Like many countries, the UK has not seen the birth rate required to bring this about, at least 2.3 children per couple. Australia is in the same boat and can't survive without immigration. Furthermore, the population is aging and requires more health resources than ever before.

[jak2002003]

12 hours ago, proton said:

Can you name one advisor? he talked mainly about facts not beliefs, but his prediction that if nothing was done to control immigration in 50 years large parts of cities would be occupied by alien cultures came true.

So he was basically a raciest bigot.

 

So what if other nationalities or races live in the UK or another country?

 

The white British people sure spread out and colonised other countries and they imposed their culture and religion on them more than any Muslims or Jews or anything else has done in the UK.  

 

The crime and no go areas are due to the British government and poverty, inequality and racist / religious intolerance and prejudices...not people colour.  

 

Funny how some white British people are so against other races living in the UK but they themselves are either living here in Thailand as an immigrant or married to an Asian woman and bringing her into the UK....

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So he was basically a raciest bigot.

 

So what if other nationalities or races live in the UK or another country?

 

The white British people sure spread out and colonised other countries and they imposed their culture and religion on them more than any Muslims or Jews or anything else has done in the UK.  

 

The crime and no go areas are due to the British government and poverty, inequality and racist / religious intolerance and prejudices...not people colour.  

 

Funny how some white British people are so against other races living in the UK but they themselves are either living here in Thailand as an immigrant or married to an Asian woman and bringing her into the UK....

interesting point of view, and could easily be said about many countries who is struggling with the ethnic differences and poverty. 
 

Could also point fingers at the later attempt on the democratic conversion on middle east to, and the endless stream of emigrants flooding our borders not only in europe, but the whole world. 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

interesting point of view, and could easily be said about many countries who is struggling with the ethnic differences and poverty. 
 

Could also point fingers at the later democratic conversion on middle east to, and the endless stream of emigrants flooding our borders not only in europe, but the whole world. 

It started with the invasion of Iraq which so upset the balance of power that we are still suffering the consequences.

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It started with the invasion of Iraq which so upset the balance of power that we are still suffering the consequences.

And Putin took advantage there to, while we betrayed the kurds

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm not against managed immigration, but I think the flaw in your argument is that rapid population growth over the past few decades has driven the need for more staff and resources in the NHS. Swings and roundabouts, right? 

More to do with rapid waistline growth and the ‘Baby Boom’ generation (the clue is in the name) getting old.

 

Young immigrants don’t tend to use the health service until they are old and many do not stay that long.

 

[OnTheLash]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More to do with rapid waistline growth and the ‘Baby Boom’ generation (the clue is in the name) getting old.

 

Young immigrants don’t tend to use the health service until they are old and many do not stay that long.

 

 

Have you been into a hospital in the UK recently. Lol.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, OnTheLash said:

 

Have you been into a hospital in the UK recently. Lol.

 

Not as a patient no, but I spent a great deal of time this summer on daily visits to someone in hospitals, more than one because they moved twice to different NHS hospitals.

 

 

So tell me, what did I miss?

 

[transam]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I just love how the nativist right wing think they own the word patriot.

Nothing to do with right-wing, and "patriot" is a USA used term/word...

Have you ever even been to the UK....?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Nothing to do with right-wing, and "patriot" is a USA used term/word...

Have you ever even been to the UK....?

The word "patriot" was conflated with being anti-immigrant earlier in this thread.

 

Here's some perspective.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Nothing to do with right-wing, and "patriot" is a USA used term/word...

Have you ever even been to the UK....?

‘Patriot’ is an English word and is often used in the UK, especially by the nativist rightwing.

 

It’s the flip side of your own frequent accusations of others being ‘Anti-Brit Brit’, regardless of the flaws of that accusation.

And no I’m not going to link to a British extreme rightwing group using the term ‘Patriot’.

 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Patriot’ is an English word and is often used in the UK, especially by the nativist rightwing.

 

It’s the flip side of your own frequent accusations of others being ‘Anti-Brit Brit’, regardless of the flaws of that accusation.

And no I’m not going to link to a British extreme rightwing group using the term ‘Patriot’.

It's not used in Australia ever. We would tend to use "hero". I know it's not the same thing but there isn't the same tendency to use labelling for political purposes as in the US.

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Nothing to do with right-wing, and "patriot" is a USA used term/word...

Have you ever even been to the UK....?

That was a sleazy ad hominem attack. Yes I have been although its irrelevant. Whether that word is specifically widely used or not the concept translates. I was responding to a post that did use that word in a right wing context but instead of whining about that, you launch a garbage personal attack on me. Very telling. 

[transam]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s just take one single point from your stream of Ill-informed contribution.

 

The UK’s NHS would collapse tomorrow if not for the tens of thousands of immigrants working to prop it up.

 

 

Did these NHS workers come to the UK in a rubber dinghy, or did they apply for a job going through the proper channels to be hired and paid a wage...?

Do UK folk do the same to work in other countries, do you think Brits go the dinghy route....?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That was a sleazy ad homenem attack. Yes I have been although its irrelevant. Whether that word is specifically widely used or not the concept translates. I was responding to a post that did use that word in a right wing context but instead of whining about that, you launch a garbage personal attack on me. Very telling. 

A response, not an attack, but if you think it is, up to you.....????

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Did these NHS workers come to the UK in a rubber dinghy, or did they apply for a job going through the proper channels to be hired and paid a wage...?

Do UK folk do the same to work in other countries, do you think Brits go the dinghy route....?

Powell never mentioned dinghy's. He was railing against all immigrants.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, transam said:

Did these NHS workers come to the UK in a rubber dinghy, or did they apply for a job going through the proper channels to be hired and paid a wage...?

Do UK folk do the same to work in other countries, do you think Brits go the dinghy route....?

Go back to the top of the thread, you’ll find the topic under discussion clearly displayed.

 

I’ve also explained earlier how the Racist Powell was making his remarks at a time when the substantial immigration of the time was from the Caribbean and that many of those immigrants were invited to the UK to work in the NHS.

 

There is a thread open on cross channel migration, you’re xenophobia is on sufficient display there.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Patriot’ is an English word and is often used in the UK, especially by the nativist rightwing.

 

It’s the flip side of your own frequent accusations of others being ‘Anti-Brit Brit’, regardless of the flaws of that accusation.

And no I’m not going to link to a British extreme rightwing group using the term ‘Patriot’.

 

 

We all know it is an English word, but I have never heard it used in conversation in the UK...????