Takeaways from the ruling granting Trump's request for a special master in Mar-a-Lago probe

[ullman]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The opposite of false, actually. 

 

"Trump announced on Monday that his palatial Florida residence had been raided early in the morning. Sources told Fox News Digital the search was in connection with materials that Trump took with him from his time as president. Sources also said National Archives and Records Administration referred the case to the Justice Department, which recovered 15 boxes of classified materials from the home."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fbi-raids-trumps-mar-a-lago-unprecedented-agency-execute-search-warrant-former-president

 

Trump says FBI agents searched his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida

Updated August 9, 202210:54 AM ET

Former President Donald Trump said on Monday that FBI agents had searched his Mar-a-Lago club and residence in Palm Beach, Fla., and opened his safe.

The FBI and Department of Justice declined to comment, although Eric Trump said Monday night that he was told the search was related to the possible mishandling of government secrets the Justice Department is known to be investigating after the National Archives retrieved White House records from Mar-a-Lago.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/08/1116427430/trump-says-fbi-agents-raided-his-mar-a-lago-home-in-florida

who really cares who reported the raid.

 

What matters is the humongous NOTHING BURGER it is!

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, ullman said:

 

Well, it seems clear that MAGA failed in 2020. So, if the media failed, who then succeeded in taking Trump down?

And who will be taking the DOJ down? A House committee? A Senate committee?

Edited September 7, 2022 by onthedarkside
reply to removed post

[LosLobo]

26 minutes ago, ullman said:

 

The Democrats didn't fail. Biden seemed to be effective in stopping Trump's bid for POTUS in 2020.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, ullman said:

who really cares who reported the raid.

 

What matters is the humongous NOTHING BURGER it is!

Well, you cared about it just a few comments back. And it shows how reflexively you reply. 

[LosLobo]

24 minutes ago, ullman said:

who really cares who reported the raid.

 

What matters is the humongous NOTHING BURGER it is!

Regardless of your opinion, facts do matter!

You have no credibility!

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, ullman said:

 

There's a site run by very right wing people called Real Clear Politics. And one of the things they do is track Biden's performance in the polls. Aug 8 was the day Mar a Lago was raided.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, ullman said:

 

You've watched way too many TV shows if you think that's how a criminal prosecution works. Especially when there is so much incriminating  evidence to sort through

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, ullman said:

 

What don't you understand about the fact that the Justice Dept. won't indict a sitting President.

 

Or maybe you've somehow managed to remain unacquainted with that fact?

 

[onthedarkside]

A series of trolling posts, including several with unsourced claims, have been removed, along with ensuing replies.

 

[lemmie]

16 hours ago, heybruce said:

By the way, his is a very serious crime.

 

"A document describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities, was found by FBI agents who searched former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and private club last month, according to people familiar with the matter, underscoring concerns among U.S. intelligence officials about classified material stashed in the Florida property."

Whats the crime you are referring to?

The Post has had no problem describing other documents as classified while working as the DOJ’s messenger for damaging Trump leaks. In this case, though, there is no mention of the classification of this specific document. Someone cocked up and forgot to define the classification of the documents, or more likely they are not classified.
If it wasn’t classified, that means it could be just about anything, including many things that would be completely proper for the former president to have had. I can go right now and search the internet for information about Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Am I now a spy because I have those documents? In this case, we could be talking about something as mundane as a news article Trump held on to or a mention of nuclear capabilities in one of his letters to foreign leaders.

 

Not good, shows the DOJ has more holes in their case. DOJ illegally leaking details of an investigation shows the extent of their corruption and nature of their political agenda targeting Trump.

[candide]

1 hour ago, lemmie said:

Whats the crime you are referring to?

The Post has had no problem describing other documents as classified while working as the DOJ’s messenger for damaging Trump leaks. In this case, though, there is no mention of the classification of this specific document. Someone cocked up and forgot to define the classification of the documents, or more likely they are not classified.
If it wasn’t classified, that means it could be just about anything, including many things that would be completely proper for the former president to have had. I can go right now and search the internet for information about Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Am I now a spy because I have those documents? In this case, we could be talking about something as mundane as a news article Trump held on to or a mention of nuclear capabilities in one of his letters to foreign leaders.

 

Not good, shows the DOJ has more holes in their case. DOJ illegally leaking details of an investigation shows the extent of their corruption and nature of their political agenda targeting Trump.

What are you talking about? Following Trump's request (he changed his mind after that), the judge compelled the FBI to publish the list of documents seized. There is no ambiguity about the classification of documents. Classified documents have a "classified" stamp on them, and this stamp has been put before Trump took them to MAL. 

You should check facts before posting (ok, I know It's hopeless).

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

But it is only your opinion and you are politically biased.

 

What is needed is an independent opinion and application.

 

What ever happens, one side will not accept the results.

Of course it's my opinion. Do you think I'd post using your opinion?

But it is only your opinion and you are politically biased would apply to most if not all posters on this thread, would it not?

 

It's a forum, so who is going to say what qualifies as independent?

 

I agree with last sentence.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, lemmie said:

Whats the crime you are referring to?

The Post has had no problem describing other documents as classified while working as the DOJ’s messenger for damaging Trump leaks. In this case, though, there is no mention of the classification of this specific document. Someone cocked up and forgot to define the classification of the documents, or more likely they are not classified.
If it wasn’t classified, that means it could be just about anything, including many things that would be completely proper for the former president to have had. I can go right now and search the internet for information about Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Am I now a spy because I have those documents? In this case, we could be talking about something as mundane as a news article Trump held on to or a mention of nuclear capabilities in one of his letters to foreign leaders.

 

Not good, shows the DOJ has more holes in their case. DOJ illegally leaking details of an investigation shows the extent of their corruption and nature of their political agenda targeting Trump.

The part of my post you edited out gives an idea of the crimes:

 

"Some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his Cabinet or a near-Cabinet-level official could authorize other government officials to know details of these special-access programs, according to people familiar with the search, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive details of an ongoing investigation."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

 

Regarding "holes" in the case; Trump took stuff that wasn't his, refused to give it back and lied about having it!  Nobody disputes this, and stealing is a crime.

 

In your fantasy land Trump can do no wrong.  In the real world things are different.

Edited September 7, 2022 by heybruce

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

No, you didn't "fix" anything.

 

Do these armed agents always carry weapons in the normal course of their duty?

 

Did these agents have a legal warrant to enter the premises and conduct a search?

 

Did any of those agents draw their weapon and threaten any of the staff present?

I seem to remember a certain poster claiming the agents were unarmed during the raid, though he didn't provide any proof of that ( that I saw ) when I asked him to.

He's one of those that liked your post.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The part of my post you edited out gives an idea of the crimes:

 

"Some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his Cabinet or a near-Cabinet-level official could authorize other government officials to know details of these special-access programs, according to people familiar with the search, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive details of an ongoing investigation."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

 

Regarding "holes" in the case; Trump took stuff that wasn't his, refused to give it back and lied about having it!  Nobody disputes this, and stealing is a crime.

 

In your fantasy land Trump can do no wrong.  In the real world things are different.

So, perhaps in the real world they can charge Trump with one of the many crimes he has been accused of by certain posters on here, and prove it in a court of law.

He either stole documents he should not have had, or he didn't. Doesn't take months to ascertain that.

In the real world, people are often charged with a sample case, rather than delaying to charge them with multiple cases. Guilty is guilty, for one or for several crimes.

Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, not the many murders he apparently committed. Jail is jail, regardless of the reasons for being there.

[heybruce]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, perhaps in the real world they can charge Trump with one of the many crimes he has been accused of by certain posters on here, and prove it in a court of law.

He either stole documents he should not have had, or he didn't. Doesn't take months to ascertain that.

In the real world, people are often charged with a sample case, rather than delaying to charge them with multiple cases. Guilty is guilty, for one or for several crimes.

Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, not the many murders he apparently committed. Jail is jail, regardless of the reasons for being there.

You are definitely a one-trick pony:  "Why hasn't he been charged yet?"

 

There is no point in explaining again what has been explained many times already.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.  Continue and face a suspension.  

 

[Credo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, perhaps in the real world they can charge Trump with one of the many crimes he has been accused of by certain posters on here, and prove it in a court of law.

He either stole documents he should not have had, or he didn't. Doesn't take months to ascertain that.

In the real world, people are often charged with a sample case, rather than delaying to charge them with multiple cases. Guilty is guilty, for one or for several crimes.

Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, not the many murders he apparently committed. Jail is jail, regardless of the reasons for being there.

I struggle to understand how some posters cannot see the situation for what it is.  It is the theft of documents and then lying about it.  He most certainly could be arrested but he is being given special treatment because he is a former president.  It's a courtesy only.  Rest assured, if anyone else did it, they would be so far back in jail, they'd have to pump in daylight.   

 

Just to give you an idea of how daft Trump is and how desperate he is, let's look at his demand for a Special Master.  The purpose of a Special Master is, in part, to determine whether or not he can exercise Executive Privilege over the documents.  Executive Privilege has to do with the disclosure of the documents outside of the Executive Branch.   The DOJ IS part of the Executive Branch.  No documents are subject to privilege as long as it is in the hands of the DOJ.   This is a delaying tactic and is legally nonsensical.  Even his former AG, Bill Barr, says so.   

He took documents that he had no right to remove from the WH.  Some of those are classified and he and anybody helping him, would know those cannot be removed.  Arguably, some of the documents and items he might have an argument over.  It's an argument he will lose, but it's a weak but valid argument nonetheless. 

 

The National Archives recognized a lot of material that they should have was missing and they went to the DOJ.  The DOJ asked for it back.  A bunch of it was returned, but far from all.  They then continued to negotiate to get it back, but it wasn't returned.  The Court issued a subpoena which still didn't produce the documents.   One of his attorneys, at his behest, wrote a letter saying that all documents had been returned -- or that no documents were there. 

 

At some point, someone let them know that the documents were still there and gave them information as to where the documents were.   The FBI took the unprecedented action of getting a search warrant.  They did not raid his home.  They searched it and they did so in accordance with the areas cited in the warrant. 

 

For someone who has persistently and consistently lied about the documents and constantly changed his story, he is being treated with unbelievably kid-gloves.   No matter how you cut it, he is a thief and a liar and his misinformation does amount to obstruction of justice.   

 

The current AG is a cautious person and has gone about as far as he could without himself violating a law by ignoring a legal situation.   Any charges will come AFTER it is fully investigated, not during an investigation.  Trump knows that so the longer he stalls, the longer he is free.   

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Credo

[billd766]

14 hours ago, ullman said:

who really cares who reported the raid.

 

What matters is the humongous NOTHING BURGER it is!

If in your words it is nothing but a humongous NOTHING BURGER, why is Trump and his acolytes, including you making such a big fuss about it?

[lemmie]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

The part of my post you edited out gives an idea of the crimes:

 

"Some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his Cabinet or a near-Cabinet-level official could authorize other government officials to know details of these special-access programs, according to people familiar with the search, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive details of an ongoing investigation."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/

 

Regarding "holes" in the case; Trump took stuff that wasn't his, refused to give it back and lied about having it!  Nobody disputes this, and stealing is a crime.

 

In your fantasy land Trump can do no wrong.  In the real world things are different.

I am merely stating the omission of the DNI, DOD, reference or other lintel security agencies classification status of these "nuclear secrets docs" in this recent DOJ leak to the WAPO. No mention is made of any classification level for these docs and there is no reference to any specific agencies including NARA with respect to these "docs".

Not very compelling , convincing leaked material. Should be able to better if there is real damning evidence which likely there isn't any or it would be plastered everywhere for everyone to see. We saw the identical leak strategy during the Russia hoax, crossfire hurricane, and so on but never any indictments based on the leaks and only process crimes and of course the FBI lawyer convicted of falsifying docs and lying to the FISA court.

 

So, in all fairness to anyone seeing this leaked information, there needs to be some proof and corroboration, not just the WAPO usual ("according to people familiar with the matter" concept) and it's likely the real predicate which DOJ is trying to hide in the redactions may offer the impetus for the affidavit and the secrecy of it. The entire contents of the affidavit may never be revealed unfortunately but maybe only if Trump's charged with doc related storage infractions but that is highly unlikely. It's trial in the court of public opinion only, the usual desperate tactics employed by the deep state inflicts on Trump.

Edited September 8, 2022 by lemmie

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, lemmie said:

Whats the crime you are referring to?

The Post has had no problem describing other documents as classified while working as the DOJ’s messenger for damaging Trump leaks. In this case, though, there is no mention of the classification of this specific document. Someone cocked up and forgot to define the classification of the documents, or more likely they are not classified.
If it wasn’t classified, that means it could be just about anything, including many things that would be completely proper for the former president to have had. I can go right now and search the internet for information about Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Am I now a spy because I have those documents? In this case, we could be talking about something as mundane as a news article Trump held on to or a mention of nuclear capabilities in one of his letters to foreign leaders.

 

Not good, shows the DOJ has more holes in their case. DOJ illegally leaking details of an investigation shows the extent of their corruption and nature of their political agenda targeting Trump.

First off, even if the documents were as you described, which is ridiculously unlikely, it would still be a crime for him to have them in his possession, In fact a far more serious crime because he signed a bill that upped the penalties for possessing unvetted government documents. He also apparently committed a crime by ignoring a grand jury subpoena.

And by your way of thinking, no document's classification should be taken seriously, as long as something can be found on the internet pertaining to the subject. You really want to continue to subscribe to that position?

[riclag]

27 minutes ago, lemmie said:

I am merely stating the omission of the DNI, DOD, reference or other lintel security agencies classification status of these "nuclear secrets docs" in this recent DOJ leak to the WAPO. No mention is made of any classification level for these docs and there is no reference to any specific agencies including NARA with respect to these "docs".

Not very compelling , convincing leaked material. Should be able to better if there is real damning evidence which likely there isn't any or it would be plastered everywhere for everyone to see. We saw the identical leak strategy during the Russia hoax, crossfire hurricane, and so on but never any indictments based on the leaks and only process crimes and of course the FBI lawyer convicted of falsifying docs and lying to the FISA court.

 

So, in all fairness to anyone seeing this leaked information, there needs to be some proof and corroboration, not just the WAPO usual ("according to people familiar with the matter" concept) and it's likely the real predicate which DOJ is trying to hide in the redactions may offer the impetus for the affidavit and the secrecy of it. The entire contents of the affidavit may never be revealed unfortunately but maybe only if Trump's charged with doc related storage infractions but that is highly unlikely. It's trial in the court of public opinion only, the usual desperate tactics employed by the deep state inflicts on Trump.

I Like your comment especially the part of “ trial in the court of public opinion “!

One of the arguments of the judge was about the leaks in relation to granting a special master and within a short time after her ruling,bam. 
I like to see the judge institute a media gag order or throw out the case against Trump 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/05/special-master-mar-a-lago-documents-00054814

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, perhaps in the real world they can charge Trump with one of the many crimes he has been accused of by certain posters on here, and prove it in a court of law.

He either stole documents he should not have had, or he didn't. Doesn't take months to ascertain that.

In the real world, people are often charged with a sample case, rather than delaying to charge them with multiple cases. Guilty is guilty, for one or for several crimes.

Al Capone went to jail for tax evasion, not the many murders he apparently committed. Jail is jail, regardless of the reasons for being there.

In the real world the DOJ frequently hit powerful and wealthy suspects with every single crime they find evidence of.

 

Be patient, Justice is coming.

 

Trump is on indictment watch.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, lemmie said:

I am merely stating the omission of the DNI, DOD, reference or other lintel security agencies classification status of these "nuclear secrets docs" in this recent DOJ leak to the WAPO. No mention is made of any classification level for these docs and there is no reference to any specific agencies including NARA with respect to these "docs".

Not very compelling , convincing leaked material. Should be able to better if there is real damning evidence which likely there isn't any or it would be plastered everywhere for everyone to see. We saw the identical leak strategy during the Russia hoax, crossfire hurricane, and so on but never any indictments based on the leaks and only process crimes and of course the FBI lawyer convicted of falsifying docs and lying to the FISA court.

 

So, in all fairness to anyone seeing this leaked information, there needs to be some proof and corroboration, not just the WAPO usual ("according to people familiar with the matter" concept) and it's likely the real predicate which DOJ is trying to hide in the redactions may offer the impetus for the affidavit and the secrecy of it. The entire contents of the affidavit may never be revealed unfortunately but maybe only if Trump's charged with doc related storage infractions but that is highly unlikely. It's trial in the court of public opinion only, the usual desperate tactics employed by the deep state inflicts on Trump.

SAP's - special-access programs

 

Source WAPO Some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his Cabinet or a near-Cabinet-level official could authorize other government officials to know details of these special-access programs

 

Source WIRED Interestingly, for the purposes of the Mar-a-Lago search, SAPs can also protect nuclear research and development as well as the highly secret and protected presidential and military NC2 communication systems, which are known by their own special clearance, YANKEE WHITE.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, lemmie said:

I am merely stating the omission of the DNI, DOD, reference or other lintel security agencies classification status of these "nuclear secrets docs" in this recent DOJ leak to the WAPO. No mention is made of any classification level for these docs and there is no reference to any specific agencies including NARA with respect to these "docs".

Not very compelling , convincing leaked material. Should be able to better if there is real damning evidence which likely there isn't any or it would be plastered everywhere for everyone to see. We saw the identical leak strategy during the Russia hoax, crossfire hurricane, and so on but never any indictments based on the leaks and only process crimes and of course the FBI lawyer convicted of falsifying docs and lying to the FISA court.

 

So, in all fairness to anyone seeing this leaked information, there needs to be some proof and corroboration, not just the WAPO usual ("according to people familiar with the matter" concept) and it's likely the real predicate which DOJ is trying to hide in the redactions may offer the impetus for the affidavit and the secrecy of it. The entire contents of the affidavit may never be revealed unfortunately but maybe only if Trump's charged with doc related storage infractions but that is highly unlikely. It's trial in the court of public opinion only, the usual desperate tactics employed by the deep state inflicts on Trump.

You don't think there is real, damning evidence?  You don't think that 11,000 documents, some of them extremely highly classified, constitute real, damning evidence?  Documents which aren't his but which he refused to return.

 

How can the "lock her up" crowd maintain that this is no big deal?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You don't think there is real, damning evidence?  You don't think that 11,000 documents, some of them extremely highly classified, constitute real, damning evidence?  Documents which aren't his but which he refused to return.

 

How can the "lock her up" crowd maintain that this is no big deal?

And there's the fact that Trump ignored a grand jury subpoena. And that his lawyers apparently lied about there being no more classified documents.  It seems extremely unlikely that they would make such a claim without Trump's authorization.

[Bkk Brian]

DOJ will appeal judge's decision to grant Trump's special master request to review seized docs

 

The DOJ said in Thursday's court papers that if Cannon doesn't grant a stay by Sept. 15, they will "intend to seek relief from the Eleventh Circuit."

Trump "does not and could not assert that he owns or has any possessory interest in classified records" prosecutors wrote in a 21-page motion.

 

The DOJ is not seeking a stay on the handover of non-classified documents to an appointed special master but said that if Cannon doesn't grant their stay it "will cause the most immediate and serious harms to the government and the public."

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doj-appeal-judges-decision-grant-trumps-special-master/story?id=89535075

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I give it as much importance as the Democrats gave HRC's e mail situation.

You're comparing a misdemeanor to a major felony.  You won't admit it, but the DOJ knows the difference.

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You're comparing a misdemeanor to a major felony.  You won't admit it, but the DOJ knows the difference.

Also, to be noted, is that Clinton was cooperated with government investigators. Trump did just the opposite. That kind of thing is taken into account when investigators decide whether or not to push for indictments.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

DOJ will appeal judge's decision to grant Trump's special master request to review seized docs

 

The DOJ said in Thursday's court papers that if Cannon doesn't grant a stay by Sept. 15, they will "intend to seek relief from the Eleventh Circuit."

Trump "does not and could not assert that he owns or has any possessory interest in classified records" prosecutors wrote in a 21-page motion.

 

The DOJ is not seeking a stay on the handover of non-classified documents to an appointed special master but said that if Cannon doesn't grant their stay it "will cause the most immediate and serious harms to the government and the public."

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doj-appeal-judges-decision-grant-trumps-special-master/story?id=89535075

Brilliant show hand poker move.