This is the link to the article referenced way back in this thread to the two women academics who seem to know what they are talking about. It is a lengthy but well informed well written article about Putin and his aims. There's a lot more than meets the eye according to them. Essential reading I'd say. I hope it's not too far off topic. I hope it's broad coverage of a variety of global perspectives on the Ukraine war merits inclusion here.

 

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent?utm_medium=promo_email&utm_source=lo_flows&utm_campaign=registered_user_welcome&utm_term=email_1&utm_content=20221017

59 minutes ago, plus7 said:

I replied  to one guy today, probably you didn't notice.

Have you heard about Amnesty International report that Ukrainian forces use schools, kindergardens and hospitals?

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

I pasted direct link on russian site (such videos removed from youtube), but moderator removed it.

 

 

But ultimately, aren't you just playing devil's advocate? I mean, would you go and fight in Putin's army? Seriously?

3 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But ultimately, aren't you just playing devil's advocate? I mean, would you go and fight in Putin's army? Seriously?

Stop. It is not about me. And not about Amnesty International and not about you. Don't change the topic.

It is about "russians attacking schools".

Could you please confirm if you got the answer on your concerns?

8 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But ultimately, aren't you just playing devil's advocate? I mean, would you go and fight in Putin's army? Seriously?

If you're interested in my personality in general, I don't go to this war, because I don't support this war, and I'm not Putin's supporter, I want peace like other normal people.

You think "I'm playing devils advocate" because I don't let you and others present Russia as the _single_ origin of evil.

Unattributed and troll posts removed also replies

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

The clear implication of your post is that UN Observers/Committee "Investigations" are Proof because they are unbiased neutral factfinders never swayed by economic/political considerations.

 

1 current example - 

Pramila Patten -  UN Special Rep - says Russian troops were given Viagra & are using rape as military strategy.

Her office was created via Security Council Resolution introduced by USA war hawk Hillary Clinton.

 

Washington used this tactic against Libyan troops during NATO’s intervention in 2011.

("Gaddafi 'supplies troops with Viagra...'  ").

 

They are not even bothering to make up new propaganda - they count on short memories, censorship, and a propagandized unquestioning public.

 

 

The implication of my post is as stated in the quote I took from it: "Horrific allegations of sexual violence against Ukrainian communities - including children - were also found to be based in fact."

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

The quote you are taking from Pramila Patten which was made just a couple of days ago does not form part of the report, its a quote from her based on interviews with female victims who had testified. The UN report was released nearly a month ago.

 

Here's a few more extracts of the UN report I was referring to:

Commission chairperson Erik Møse said that investigators visited 27 towns and settlements and interviewed more than 150 victims and witnesses. They also inspected “sites of destruction, graves, places of detention and torture”, as well as remnants of weapons.

 

Other key findings from the report include the surprisingly “large number of executions” in 16 towns and settlements, where “common elements” of the crimes included “visible signs of executions on bodies, such as hands tied behind backs, gunshot wounds to the head, and slit throats”.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Indeed! Despicable <deleted> from Thailand:

 

"In explaining Thailand’s stand on the latest vote, Suriya Chindawongse, Thailand’s Permanent Representative to UN, said in a statement that Thailand chose to abstain because the vote “takes place during an extremely volatile and emotionally charged atmosphere and situation, and thus marginalizes the chance for crisis diplomacy to bring about a peaceful and practical negotiated resolution to the conflict that may push the world towards the brink of nuclear war and global economic collapse.”

 

But not surprising....

Let's imagine that one day (I hope not of course) a neighbouring country invades Thailand for no other reason that a phony theory - repeated at nauseam - states that Thailand historically belongs to it and that the Thai culture and identity does not exist, devastates large regions of Thailand etc etc. I wonder what then the reaction of Thailand would be, at the moment of voting against the aggressing country, dozens of countries around the world decided "to abstain because the vote “takes place during an extremely volatile and emotionally charged atmosphere and situation, and thus marginalizes the chance for crisis diplomacy to bring about a peaceful and practical negotiated resolution to the conflict".

 

This complete and total BS on the part of Thailand and I hope it will be remembered.

Some more off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. Please remember this topic is about:

 

For many, Thailand’s UN vote on Russia still a puzzle

 

There are plenty of topics in the World News forum where the atrocities happening in Ukraine are being discussed, please post there. 

11 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

That said if you find Amnesty a credible source then I'm very pleased, take note of just some of their other reports on the atrocities carried out by Russian forces on civilians

 

I'm sorry, what exactly is the "atrocity of Russian forces". English isn't my native. I assume the atrocity "of Russian forces" must have mass character.

Mass shooting of civilians, for example, mass executions, rapes.

But if an enemy hid in civilian building, it will be shot. This is tragedy, catastrophe, tears, sorrow for civilians, hard to see,  whatever, but not the atrocity.

Ukraine intentionally didn't evacuate people to use it as a shield.

I admit there were single crimes made by russian soldiers and they must be prosecuted.

I also admit some rockets could hit civilian buildings accidentally or when just fall down intercepted.

 

In this topic they said russian soldiers were given viagra ... o my god. Anyone believes it ? They were not given even warm ammunition!

 

 

3 minutes ago, plus7 said:

I'm sorry, what exactly is the "atrocity of Russian forces". English isn't my native. I assume the atrocity "of Russian forces" must have mass character.

Mass shooting of civilians, for example, mass executions, rapes.

But if an enemy hid in civilian building, it will be shot. This is tragedy, catastrophe, tears, sorrow for civilians, hard to see,  whatever, but not the atrocity.

Ukraine intentionally didn't evacuate people to use it as a shield.

I admit there were single crimes made by russian soldiers and they must be prosecuted.

I also admit some rockets could hit civilian buildings accidentally or when just fall down intercepted.

 

In this topic they said russian soldiers were given viagra ... o my god. Anyone believes it ? They were not given even warm ammunition!

 

 

your post and my reply have already (quite rightly) been deleted as off topic. So explaining to you what an atrocity is would probably also be deleted, find a dictionary instead.

1 hour ago, plus7 said:

If you're interested in my personality in general, I don't go to this war, because I don't support this war, and I'm not Putin's supporter, I want peace like other normal people.

You think "I'm playing devils advocate" because I don't let you and others present Russia as the _single_ origin of evil.

But I think it is. The Ukraine army is struggling to repel an extremely hostile, aggressive army. Amnesty as far as I can see nowhere suggests they intentionally used occupied civilian buildings as cover for gunfire. They might have drawn fire from the Russians to neighbouring civilian areas, but this is war, and the Russian armaments are old and inaccurate. Ukraine did not start the war, and Russia must be held solely to blame. Ukrainians are simply trying to defend themselves and their people. Maybe mistakes are made, but I do not believe they would intentionally put their own innocent civilians at risk. You have to believe in something, and I believe that. I have believed right from the very outset that Putin was and is an extremely dangerous man. Europe got caught fast asleep.

 

How all this affects Thailand heaven knows. If they want peace, I don't see them offering any plan for moving in that direction. Xi won't lean on Putin, which he obviously could do. So, where's the off ramp, for anyone?

14 hours ago, stevenrossvanduyn said:

The truth is Russia is bombing innocent civilians, hospitals, schools and no Thailand likes to sit on the fence when it comes to foreign affairs.

wrong....

2 hours ago, coolcarer said:

Right so the political circles are the only ones that know the truth, how do you know?

One doesn’t need to belong to political circles to not be brainwashed. All it takes is some curiosity, research skills and critical thinking. Knowing history and culture of the region helps immensely though. Covid time was an IQ test. Now is another IQ test re situation in Ukraine. Both events brought massive brainwashing.

5 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But I think it is. The Ukraine army is struggling to repel ...

Bradiston, I can agree with all your post, especially with the right of people to defend, they are brave, and so on.  I can't only agree with "solely to blame".

You may not know, but when Zelensky wasn't yet elected, he actively criticized current president for not doing anything to stop the war. He spoke russian language that time and russian population was his main auditory. And he said exactly, literally this: "if it will be required, I will go to Putin and beg him on knees to stop the war".

It was several years ago...

3 minutes ago, AnotherFarang8 said:

One doesn’t need to belong to political circles to not be brainwashed. All it takes is some curiosity, research skills and critical thinking. Knowing history and culture of the region helps immensely though. Covid time was an IQ test. Now is another IQ test re situation in Ukraine. Both events brought massive brainwashing.

Couldn’t agree more. Some people even believe the referendums on the annexations in Ukraine were authentic. Still only 4 countries got duped by that. NK, Syria, Belarus and Nicaragua. ????

6 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Just think about it in historical way. Did you even know that US recognized USSR somewhere in 30s ? After 15 years since USSR was created ?

Then US built up russian industry, they fought together and then flew together to space...

I bit broader view ... please.

 

Yes I knew and fail to see what the US has to do with Thailands decision to abstain on the annexations

40 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Yes I knew and fail to see what the US has to do with Thailand decision to abstain on the annexations

Fail, okay, let me help.

Ontopic: Thailland should act on its own interest.

You expressed doubts, with laugh, in authenticity. I don't know where you're from, if from US, go to read how Texas was joined (they have museum in Austin). Very much the same like DNR and LNR.

What I'm trying to say, is that historical deads, may look ugly, sometimes funny, unbelievable, but with years it become history.

Very much the same like if you take a nice girl and try to explore her with a microscope.

 

23 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Fail, okay, let me help.

Ontopic: Thailland should act on its own interest.

You expressed doubts, with laugh, in authenticity. I don't know where you're from, if from US, go to read how Texas was joined (they have museum in Austin). Very much the same like DNR and LNR.

What I'm trying to say, is that historical deads, may look ugly, sometimes funny, unbelievable, but with years it become history.

Very much the same like if you take a nice girl and try to explore her with a microscope.

 

Thailand abstained on the vote, nothing to do with historical deeds, more to do with its future options. Not sure what the time is in Russia for you now but for me I’m going to sleep, work in the morning

Just sad to see how many people here justify the actions of a mass murderer and Thailand's decision not to condemn that mass murderer. The only bright side to the story is that the mass murderer will most likely lose the war.

Cowards. Now what if Malaysia invaded and annexed the 3 Provinces in Southern Thailand to protect the Muslim population.....I will leave it there.

Hilarious all the experts blaming the US/the West for antagonising Russia blah blah, while totalling overlooking Putin’s forever dream of USSR 2.0. Thailand is right up China’s chuff and voted as it did because of who is running the place. Wonder how it’ll vote when it escalates to WWIII and might have to get its hands dirty. 

Well at least Thailand is not like Iran and Belarus in supporting Russia.

If it is a tourist destination for the people who want to escape a cold Winter, I guess

that is the same for other tropical countries that do not have a huge military or

such. The size of Thailand's air force, and navy is also not huge like Russia, China, NK or USA.

It is just another tropical country that has a good climate for tourism.

21 hours ago, Purdey said:

Thailand owes the west very little. 

Yes, they never learned to make good bread like their neighbors!

One aspect not yet I thinkcommented on here is that  every other ASEAN member country voted in favor of the motion.Thus Thailand is the complete outsider here.

21 hours ago, webfact said:

A direct instruction went from the government in Bangkok to the Thai permanent representative at the UN Headquarters in New York to abstain from voting on the UNGA resolution on October 12 that called on all countries not to recognize Russian annexation of Ukrainian territory, a senior official at the Foreign Ministry said on condition of anonymity.

When the EU brings in it's secondary sanctions, Thailand might wish they'd chosen a different path.

When they start EU country trade talks they might not have such an easy time.

But I'm sure Prayut will remain cosy with Putin & Xi 

On 10/17/2022 at 5:56 AM, stevenrossvanduyn said:

The truth is Russia is bombing innocent civilians, hospitals, schools and no Thailand likes to sit on the fence when it comes to foreign affairs.

Those dastardly Russkies. 

Don't they know that only Uncle S(c)am has that privilege?? 

(Shock and awe and such)

19 hours ago, coolcarer said:

What B.S.

 

It was not required and was not vehemently refused. Russia asked for a secret vote, the UN voted on that democratically, the result was in favor of a normal public vote. 
 

Not surprising Russia calls for secret votes however, transparency has never been its forte. 

Isn't a secret vote same as anonymous?

Anyway, whose forte a transparency is, that's another question. 

BTW, ever heard what Obama said about arm twisting?

 

  

 

A post discussing moderation has been removed

I think Thailand's change of "heart", after having voted FOR the first U.N. Resolution condemning Russia for the invasion of Ukraine, is a result of:

 

 - Appeasement, part of the Thai national character

 

- Hopes of brokering a cease-fire at APEC

 

- General incompetence, also part of the Thai national character

 

 

The various defenses Thai functionaries have floated for this 'abstention' border on the absurd. By far my favorite was bobblehead Tanee Sangrat who said:

 

"What or who gives you the right to pass judgement on Thailand's or any country's foreign policy."

 

He later withdrew this statement, which tells so much about both incompetence and the Thai national character.

 

 

On 10/17/2022 at 6:52 AM, Purdey said:

Let's not forget, Thailand was not the only country that abstained. Why  should it take sides when it comes to a vote. 

 You will remember that  the Europeans didn't take sides when France annexed parts of Thailand. I used to know a very old Thai royal who informed me his father could never forgive France, in fact he kept a lifelong hatred against that country, for annexing its land in what is now Cambodia and Laos in the forties and vetoed Thailand becoming a member of the United Nations in order to shut Thailand up and keep those annexed territories. In 1941, France ceded some land back to Thailand but Thailand was forced in 1946 to cede land to France  in Laos and Cambodia (which were part of Thailand's territory). Thailand owes the west very little. 

 

 

Absolutely, there are many foreign expats here that are clueless. 

Is it OK for France to steal land for Thailand but not for Russia to do it in Ukraine?

Is it OK for UK to invade Iraq for no reason and kill hundreds of thousands of innocents but not OK for Russia to invade Ukraine. Actually, the UK has invaded/been at war with over 170 countries. As for the US, they instigated this current conflict for their own political agenda. Too many in the West are woke and totally polarised that they can't see sense in simple situations. 

This Ukrainian thing has nothing to do with us in Thailand, actually it has nothing to do with the US or UK and co, stop funding Ukraine and let them accept defeat and save many lives and the entire world economy.