Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, RayC said:

 

Is that not a possibility? For example, Papworth is (was?) world-renowned for its' cardiology expertise.

Although that would be a World renowned specialist hospital where they may indeed go and learn something , I was talking more about Cornelius from Croatia going to work in Cricklewood general hospital 

[3NUMBAS]

,

many issues but its not so simple

mismanagement by gumment

brexit issues caused by EU

but.....

rolls royce are rolling out new mini nuclear power stations in the coming years which is a UK first  which  are built offsite and then moved to the location

 

so cutting edge things are being made

 

new spaceport  in cornwall launching satelelites of which uk is a global leader

as they make   more space satelites than any other country  and now launching em

as well

so its not all bad news

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, but why does it matter if they now come from Asian/Africa rather then from Europe ?

  I do think you accidently were being racist there .

It does slip sometimes 

It doesn't matter to me. But I assumed that since you specified EU doctors, it might matter to you. So I was careful to make clear the distinction. Actually, that it doesn't matter to you makes your point about health care workers not being incentivized to move to the UK even weaker. They are coming to the UK and they're coming in droves. And they're hurting the health care systems in their own country by leaving. It's obvious they doing it for the money and not to see the changing of the guard. The discrepancy between what they can earn in the UK and what they earn in their home countries is huge. Here's an article from jun 8, 2022. Is that recent enough for you?

 

NHS hiring more doctors from outside UK and EEA than inside for first time
Jeremy Hunt questions ‘morally dubious’ recruitment as thousands hired from poorer countries

The NHS is hiring more doctors from outside the UK and the European Economic Area than from within for the first time, setting off a moral argument over the health service’s growing mentality of “poaching” from the developing world.

Unpublished figures from the General Medical Council (GMC) show that 7,377 (37%) of the 19,977 doctors who started work in the NHS in 2021 had a British qualification.

A total of 10,009 new medics learned medicine outside the UK and the EEA – so-called international medical graduates (IMGs) – compared with 9,968 within. 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/08/nhs-hiring-more-doctors-from-outside-uk-and-eea-than-inside-for-first-time

[RayC]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

How exactly is what I'm stating racist? It's just a fact that more of the UK's healthcare workers are now coming from Africa and Asia. How does that suggest in any way that they are inferior? You think only inferior health care workers would be desperate enough to work in the UK? I don't understand what you're basing your comment on.

I'm afraid that we have both been slow on the uptake: He's trolling.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

I'm afraid that we have both been slow on the uptake: He's trolling.

If that's your opinion, I trust you wont be replying to me anymore in future ?

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

I'm afraid that we have both been slow on the uptake: He's trolling.

Actually, I knew that his comment about race was trolling but I wanted to see him hang himself. The funny thing is that he's the one who brought up the issue of race. I only designated prospective workers geographically.

 

[3NUMBAS]

https://spaceportcornwall.com/

 

the new spaceport in uk

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, dunroaming said:

There is consequently a massive recruitment campaign to bring in nurses and doctors from Africa. 

That was started when I was in the NHS way back in first decade of this century.

However, let's remember that every doctor or nurse recruited from Africa is one less there, so just transferring the shortage from the UK to Africa.

 

While I can't comment on why not enough British people want to be doctors ( perhaps because it's not a great job and the financial return for the cost and time involved in becoming a doctor isn't enough- same as why British people don't want to be nurses ) I can comment on nurses.

 

They could eliminate the shortage of nurses quite easily though- stop pretending it's a profession, and train nurses in hospitals like they used to before the woke took over nursing. Being paid to work while training will bring in candidates. Also bring back enrolled nurses. It is a tragedy that they were ended.

I was trained in hospital and successfully worked as a nurse for decades after which puts the lie to the idea that a degree is needed for ward nurses- for nurses that go on to advanced positions ( nurse practitioners ) it is needed but they are a tiny minority of nurses.

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed along with replies.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://spaceportcornwall.com/

 

the new spaceport in uk

A spaceport, an engineering firm, a car maker, a cheese maker, a hospitality business, a hospital, a supermarket chain, a pharmaceutical company, a bank, an insurance company.

 

They all need market access, to goods, materials, skilled workers, and customers.

 

Withdrawing from the world’s largest free market has negatively impacted all of them. The choice made to raise trade barriers against the UK economy has negatively impacted UK businesses and the UK economy.

 

 

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, RayC said:

I'm afraid that we have both been slow on the uptake: He's trolling.

Unfortunately he is not trolling, that's just the level of comprehension and reasoning he is able to.

[RayC]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If that's your opinion, I trust you wont be replying to me anymore in future ?

If you misrepresent my comments and/or post false information as you have done recently, then I will continue to post corrections.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

Although just 6 % of NHS staff came from  E.U Countries prior to Brexit and all of those were given visas to stay and work in the UK and also E.U citizens can now apply for working visas to work in the UK

So you are claiming the NHS did not lose any staff whatsoever due to the immigrant overtones of brexit, and EU citizens haven't been deterred by brexit to get visas to come and work in the NHS.

 

Some of us were born at night, but not last night.

[Harveyboy]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:58 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Easy. They stopped making things that people want to buy and went for the "financial" markets, whatever they may be.

Also, they let in loads of people that contribute nothing to the country, but suck the economy like leeches.

 

Wasted north sea oil. They should have been like Norway.

 

Keep throwing money at the NHS instead of making it only about what it was supposed to do. Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on it. Sacking 70% of the managers would be a good start.

 

Apparently 3 generations living on the dole up north.

 

Tony Blair and joining the US war in Iraq.

 

The mistakes of the past are coming back to bite them on the bum.

well said that man I agree 100%

[superal]

16 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That also includes people who retire and move abroad .

Did you move abroad and left the UK and are now complaining that Brits are moving abroad and leaving the UK?

Complaining ? No I am retired , spend 6 months in Thailand and same in the UK . The info that I gave said that the majority of Brits who were emigrating were going to Australia or Canada . That would exclude most retirees . Not sure about Canada but Australia are very particular in who they admit . Applicants must show they have certain skills that the country needs along with a job offer . Hence the UK are losing valuable skills especially from the medical profession . 

Hardly complaining , just giving the facts . The UK economy is suffering because of the lack of skilled workers and should be vetting potential UK immigrants in the same context as Australia . What is the point of admitting those who cannot bring a skill and make no contribution to the country ?

 True asylum seekers are a different case but as things stand the majority of those in rubber dinghies are economic , illegal gate crashers with Albanian mafia connections . Suella Braverman sees to be the first home secretary who is making a real effort to stop illegal entrants to the UK .

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, superal said:

Complaining ? No I am retired , spend 6 months in Thailand and same in the UK . The info that I gave said that the majority of Brits who were emigrating were going to Australia or Canada . That would exclude most retirees . Not sure about Canada but Australia are very particular in who they admit . Applicants must show they have certain skills that the country needs along with a job offer . Hence the UK are losing valuable skills especially from the medical profession . 

Hardly complaining , just giving the facts . The UK economy is suffering because of the lack of skilled workers and should be vetting potential UK immigrants in the same context as Australia . What is the point of admitting those who cannot bring a skill and make no contribution to the country ?

 True asylum seekers are a different case but as things stand the majority of those in rubber dinghies are economic , illegal gate crashers with Albanian mafia connections . Suella Braverman sees to be the first home secretary who is making a real effort to stop illegal entrants to the UK .

The UK economy is suffering a lack of workers skilled and unskilled.

[Mac Mickmanus]

The UK is doing OK when it comes to keeping inflation under control 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Mac Mickmanus]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

So you are claiming the NHS did not lose any staff whatsoever due to the immigrant overtones of brexit, and EU citizens haven't been deterred by brexit to get visas to come and work in the NHS.

 

Some of us were born at night, but not last night.

No I wasn't claiming that , if I were to claim that , I would have claimed tht , but I didn't claim that 

[dunroaming]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:03 PM, bert bloggs said:

We left and came to Thailand when the town we lived in was taken over by muslims,drugs  stabbings ,constant wailing from the temples,and the police afraid to do anything for fear of being called racist

So you came to a country as an immigrant where many of the locals resent you being here.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, sandyf said:

So you are claiming the NHS did not lose any staff whatsoever due to the immigrant overtones of brexit, and EU citizens haven't been deterred by brexit to get visas to come and work in the NHS.

 

Some of us were born at night, but not last night.

Blaming Brexit for the NHS staff shortage is, IMO, deflecting from the real reason the NHS had to use imported labour in the first place, which is that the NHS pay is not sufficient to get British people to become nurses and doctors.

When I first started working for the NHS they had loads of agency nurses because agencies paid better. The government stopped agency nurses working in NHS hospitals and recruited from Africa because that meant they could continue to pay rubbish wages.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

So you came to a country as an immigrant where many of the locals resent you being here.

What country are you talking about? I was never resented by "many of the locals" in Thailand.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

So you came to a country as an immigrant where many of the locals resent you being here.

No, he didn't like all those Asian going to live in his home town in the UK , the solution to the problem of all those Asians moving to his home town was to move.................................to Asia

[Mac Mickmanus]

Best leading indicator for growth is Purchasers Managers Index. Germany, France, Italy & the EU as a whole faring worse:-
That will filter through to GDP

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, he didn't like all those Asian going to live in his home town in the UK , the solution to the problem of all those Asians moving to his home town was to move.................................to Asia

Asia encompasses a great many different cultures, so your comment would only apply if all the Asians in his home town were Thais.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Asia encompasses a great many different cultures, so your comment would only apply if all the Asians in his home town were Thais.

Point being that he didn't like immigrants , so decided to emigrate and became an immigrant himself 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Point being that he didn't like immigrants , so decided to emigrate and became an immigrant himself 

Perhaps it's more because the particular immigrants that settled in his area made it an unpleasant place to live. Had they been more pleasant he might well have stayed.

 

Using a broad brush to say all immigrants are the same is a nonsense.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Blaming Brexit for the NHS staff shortage is, IMO, deflecting from the real reason the NHS had to use imported labour in the first place, which is that the NHS pay is not sufficient to get British people to become nurses and doctors.

When I first started working for the NHS they had loads of agency nurses because agencies paid better. The government stopped agency nurses working in NHS hospitals and recruited from Africa because that meant they could continue to pay rubbish wages.

Perfectly valid points, but at the end of the day it cannot be denied that brexit to the NHS was like amputating the foot of a one legged man.

One legged people often become that way from poor life style and neglect.

[johnnybangkok]

22 hours ago, superal said:

Hardly complaining , just giving the facts . The UK economy is suffering because of the lack of skilled workers and should be vetting potential UK immigrants in the same context as Australia . What is the point of admitting those who cannot bring a skill and make no contribution to the country ?

 True asylum seekers are a different case but as things stand the majority of those in rubber dinghies are economic , illegal gate crashers with Albanian mafia connections . Suella Braverman sees to be the first home secretary who is making a real effort to stop illegal entrants to the UK .

Vetting in the Uk is quite stringent (and has got more stringent after Brexit) and is based on a very similar 'points based' system to Australia. https://www.y-axis.com/migrate/uk/

 

ELIGIBILITY

In 2020, the UK government announced a points-based immigration system. The main features of the points-based migration are:

• Candidates for immigration to the EU and non-EU countries shall be considered equally.
• The points-based system must be followed by highly skilled workers, skilled workers, and students who wish to come to the UK.
• For skilled workers, a job offer is required.
• The salary level has been cut from 30,000 pounds to 26,000 pounds per year.
• Applicants must demonstrate their ability to communicate in English (A-level or equivalent).
• Highly skilled professionals must be endorsed by a UK authority, but they are not required to have a job offer.
• 70 points is the minimum score required to be eligible for a visa

To say 'the majority of those in rubber dinghies are economic, illegal gate crashers with Albanian mafia connections' is somewhat harsh but there is a point to establishing whether people are in fact true asylum seekers or just economic migrants. There is supposed to be a stringent vetting process for asylum seekers v economic migrants but even if someone is refused asylum, a lot of them get to stay in the country  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/nine-in-10-people-refused-asylum-in-2020-free-to-remain-in-uk-home-office 

This is obviously a huge problem that needs addressing. Again though, this is for the Tories to sort out after campaigning so strongly on immigration for Brexit.   

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, dunroaming said:

So you came to a country as an immigrant where many of the locals resent you being here.

Stamp in my passport says I'm not an immigrant.

[RayC]

11 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Best leading indicator for growth is Purchasers Managers Index. Germany, France, Italy & the EU as a whole faring worse:-
That will filter through to GDP

 

 

 

 

 

It's certainly not good news that those working in construction in the Eurozone are pessimistic about their immediate future prospects, but why should an index that only covers one sector be the best leading indicator for the economy as a whole?