Thailand going cashless. Are you for or against it?

[rattlesnake]

I read this today:

 

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.
 

[GammaGlobulin]

All debts should be paid in pounds of flesh, maybe. 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, scorecard said:

Sure, In Australia everybody pays/everybody accepts debit card. And very fast, 99% of vwndors have the machine and 99% of the card holders have the card which just needs a fleeting touch on the machine and all done (fully insert the card into the machine).

 

And (in Australia) many debit cards issued abroad are accepted but need to be fully inserted in the card reading machine because the cards are not programmed for 'touch and go'. No big deal. 

 

Along with that (in Australia) ATM machines are disappearing, not needed, very few customers withdrawing cash.  At the 2 big shopping centres near where I stayed in Australia for a while, it's getting more and more difficult to find an ATM.

I accept that eventually I may be forced, kicking and screaming, to use a spyphone to pay for things, but hopefully I won't be around to see when it all goes wrong.

IMO instead of stealing money, the young thugs will be forcing the law abiding to give up their phones and pins or such like.

It'll be great for bank profits, but not so much for us.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I read this today:

 

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.
 

Well said, but the indoctrinated sheeple will willingly submit to big banking because "it's more convenient" than cash.

I often see old people using cards in supermarket and not shielding the pin number when they use it. Just asking for muggers to steal their cards.

Anyway, now that pay wave removes the need to even use a pin just steal the card and go shopping.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I read this today:

 

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.
 

But you don't pay any money to use the card .

So : After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will still  be $50

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But you don't pay any money to use the card .

So : After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will still  be $50

LOL. I often see a sign in shops stating that there will be a credit card charge.

[Mac Mickmanus]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. I often see a sign in shops stating that there will be a credit card charge.

We aren't talking about credit cards though , that is something different .

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We aren't talking about credit cards though , that is something different .

Fair enough, but after we all go cashless and can't go back what is to stop banks imposing a transaction fee? Even a few cents for each would result in massive profits for the banks. With that much money to be extorted, I fear it's inevitable.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fair enough, but after we all go cashless and can't go back what is to stop banks imposing a transaction fee? Even a few cents for each would result in massive profits for the banks. With that much money to be extorted, I fear it's inevitable.

Worry about that if and when it happens 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Worry about that if and when it happens 

I thought we were having a discussion about something that hadn't happened yet? Anything goes.

[GammaGlobulin]

The real question is not whether or not we should use cash or cashless methods of payment for what we want. 

 

Instead, the better question is why we need to pay anything, at all! 

 

We now have entered a brave new world of superexpontial growth. 

 

This means that almost everything, other than Bentley automobiles, should be free to everyone who is a member of the human race. 

 

Anyone who is human should be able to walk into any store and then walk out with whatever they need. 

 

Such a concept is not much different from what is already happening, today. 

 

Many among us use credit cards to charge what we want, even without any expectation that we will be held accountable for our credit card debt. 

 

All we need do is to set up a suitable well-functioning system of distribution. 

 

Just imagine what such a wonderful world it might be if everything in stores was free. 

 

In other words, just think of a world designed by the reincarnation of the late, great Buckminster Fuller!!! 

 

Some might argue that if everything was free then nobody would work. However, this fallacy is a myth perpetrated by the Republicans. 

 

We now live in a world of superabundance and superexponential growth. 

 

Why? 

 

The answer is... ENERGY. Very soon, energy will be almost free.

 

70 years ago, in San Francisco, Bucky had a great vision of what life could be like in our age. 

 

Everybody would just walk into stores without cash, fill their shopping carts to overflowing with almost anything, for free, and put an end to economic cycles of boom and bust. 

 

Bucky had this idea of what he called ephemeralization. 

 

But I just wonder how many on Thaivisa forum have been reading Buckminster Fuller, recently...? 

 

 

[lopburi3]

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But you don't pay any money to use the card .

So : After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will still  be $50

Actually you do - indirectly or directly (higher price for use of cards still happens).  But even if no increase seller sets a higher price for everyone to cover bank costs (and in many places to cover the extra tax burden the bank records prove).  So all lose except the banks/government (the rich get richer).  In an ideal world the government will use for everyone - but often that is not the case.

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually you do - indirectly or directly (higher price for use of cards still happens).  But even if no increase seller sets a higher price for everyone to cover bank costs (and in many places to cover the extra tax burden the bank records prove).  So all lose except the banks/government (the rich get richer).  In an ideal world the government will use for everyone - but often that is not the case.

 

Banks pass on all their costs, simple as that.

 

The higher costs of handling/processing cash are simply spread amongst other customers (usually the retailer paying in the cash).

 

The retailer then spreads his costs across all customer with his pricing policy.

Edited November 27, 2022 by hotandsticky

[BangkokHank]

How COVID Became the Path to Global Financial Surveillance

 

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/11/18/cbdc-how-covid-became-the-path-to-global-financial-surveillance/

[Peterphuket]

12 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I read this today:

 

Why should we pay cash everywhere with banknotes instead of a card?

- If I have a $50 banknote in my pocket, go to a restaurant and pay for dinner with it. Then the restaurant owner uses the same bill to pay for the laundry. The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber. The barber then uses the bill for shopping and so on. After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50 note! It has fulfilled its purpose for everyone who used it for payment. The bank ran dry from every cash payment made with this $50 note.

- But if I go to the same restaurant and pay digitally (by card), the bank fee for my payment transaction is 3%, around $1.50. Then another $1.50 for the laundry owner and the barber and so on. After 30 transactions, the initial $50 will only be $5. The remaining $45 becomes the property of the bank...thanks to digital transactions and fees.
 

I think this is the best explanation from the whole topic, again it's the banks that get richer.

[Peterphuket]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fair enough, but after we all go cashless and can't go back what is to stop banks imposing a transaction fee? Even a few cents for each would result in massive profits for the banks. With that much money to be extorted, I fear it's inevitable.

And last not but least, what do you think about Negative Interest, you can't withdraw your money anymore, so they can do what they like to do.......

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:55 AM, HuskerDo2 said:

I agree. Will you also need to have the bargirls carry a credit card swiping machine if they spend the night?

Going cashless isn't about using credit cards (or at least, not primarily). There are plenty of other ways to make cashless payments without using cards.

 

For instance, if you set up PromptPay, all you have to do is give someone your phone number and they can pay you. Also, with most (if not all) banking apps, you have a "QR to receive" code available on your phone. If you display that code to someone else who has a banking app, they can make a payment to you.

 

Then there are digital payment apps like True Money Wallet, Rabbit Line Pay, Alipay, Google Pay (which just became available in Thailand) etc.

[billd766]

On 11/26/2022 at 8:03 AM, Lucky Bones said:

Blessing in disguise?????????

I am still in Facebook jail after a month as somebody hijacked my account. Facebook assured me that it is usually sorted out in 24 hours. It is now a month and how can you contact Facebook? Through your Facebook account, which is of course suspended.

[Lacessit]

52 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am still in Facebook jail after a month as somebody hijacked my account. Facebook assured me that it is usually sorted out in 24 hours. It is now a month and how can you contact Facebook? Through your Facebook account, which is of course suspended.

I have never been on Facebook. If Mark Zuckerberg wants my data to sell to others, he can pay me for it first.

I simply don't understand why people are obsessed with the social platform. I suppose they could say I don't know what I am missing; however, I don't seem to feel any aching void that needs filling.

I am damn sure nobody I know or don't know wants a photo of my last breakfast, or when I had my last dump.

Same with Twitter, from the incoherent tweets I observe being quoted, I fear participation would automatically drag my IQ down 42 points.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Banks do make money out of this. But people aren't obliged to use the service. They want to. I want to. It makes live simpler and more fun. Don't overthink it. Cash is not needed in most cases in modern society. Privacy is a separate issue but it is normal and fair that someone makes a profit from providing a service beneficial to customer and normally to the business too. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have never been on Facebook. If Mark Zuckerberg wants my data to sell to others, he can pay me for it first.

I simply don't understand why people are obsessed with the social platform. I suppose they could say I don't know what I am missing; however, I don't seem to feel any aching void that needs filling.

I am damn sure nobody I know or don't know wants a photo of my last breakfast, or when I had my last dump.

Same with Twitter, from the incoherent tweets I observe being quoted, I fear participation would automatically drag my IQ down 42 points.

I used to use it mainly to keep up with the area where I was born, an excellent forum on old British cars, a forum on steam locomotives, one on steam traction engines, another on where I used to be stationed during my time in the RAF and a local forum where I live in Thailand.

 

The area where I was born had some great photos of local interest, especially to me.

[lopburi3]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Same with Twitter, from the incoherent tweets I observe being quoted, I fear participation would automatically drag my IQ down 42 points.

It had redeeming areas but removed myself when became

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

We now live in a world of superabundance and superexponential growth. 

You refer to a tiny minority of the people on the planet, and superexponential growth is killing the environment we need to live in.

IMO you ignore the effect of greed, which IMO is the motivation for the uber rich that have far more than they need, but want even more, and will never give it up willingly.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

For instance, if you set up PromptPay, all you have to do is give someone your phone number and they can pay you. Also, with most (if not all) banking apps, you have a "QR to receive" code available on your phone. If you display that code to someone else who has a banking app, they can make a payment to you.

LOL. What could go wrong with giving your phone number to every Tom Dick or Harry? Ever heard of hacking?

What if the other person doesn't have a banking app?

If people want to do that, OK, but why force everyone to do so? Is that a free society? Is that democracy? What happened to freedom of choice? Are bank profits and government control so important that we all have to become slaves of the system? Make no mistake, if we don't control our money , we don't control our lives.

[garrya]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:57 AM, Bluespunk said:

Paranoid conspiracy theory bs. Get a grip or therapy. 

This is what's happening in China. People are forced to take daily tests, and if you test positive or are a no show, your app turns to yellow and you can't go anywhere, can't buy anything, can't enter any place etc. I bet cashless is enjoyed by those Chinese. 

Bloody conspiracy theorists. 

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, garrya said:

This is what's happening in China. People are forced to take daily tests, and if you test positive or are a no show, your app turns to yellow and you can't go anywhere, can't buy anything, can't enter any place etc. I bet cashless is enjoyed by those Chinese. 

Bloody conspiracy theorists. 

Absolutely nothing to do with Thai businesses choosing to use cashless payment.

 

You really are reaching now.

 

Conspiracy theory hyperbolic BS to link chinas covid protests with businesses making choices on payment.

 

Get a grip

[garrya]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Absolutely nothing to do with Thai businesses choosing to use cashless payment.

 

You really are reaching now.

 

Conspiracy theory hyperbolic BS to link chinas covid protests with businesses making choices on payment.

 

Get a grip

Just to show you what a completely cashless bank controlled society can lead to. 

If your brain isn't up to the task to understand this, there is little the one can do for you. 

[garrya]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Absolutely nothing to do with Thai businesses choosing to use cashless payment.

 

You really are reaching now.

 

Conspiracy theory hyperbolic BS to link chinas covid protests with businesses making choices on payment.

 

Get a grip

Cashless society isn't what business needs. Businesses can thrive on any payments. 

[garrya]

2 minutes ago, garrya said:

Cashless society isn't what business needs. Businesses can thrive on any payments. 

And instead of digital cr.p, local businesses should be promoted and helped where locals support each other and won't need to rely on state and corporation controlled payments. 

[Sqoop]

On 11/24/2022 at 8:47 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Unless you have something to hide I don't see the problem 

I dated a woman here who ran a thriving sports shoe business on Facebook. She made the mistake of making an anti government statement and had her page shut down. What would happen with a "cbdc" coupled to a social policy. The aim for the new currencies is to be borderless. What ever that means in practise.