Masks and all

[HerewardtheWake]

https://www.city-journal.org/new-cochrane-study-on-masks-and-covid

 

The marginal positive consequences of masking are outlined in this article. I was at the Bangkok Bank yesterday to enquire about wiring money  abroad. The bank officer sits behind a transparent panel with just a space open at the bottom. And she was tightly masked. Her muffled speech through the mask was mostly incomprehensible. I asked her if I put my mask on, could she she speak without the mask, so that I can understand her. The answer an emphatic "No". I think masking in banks and hospitals in Thailand will continue into the indefinite future.

[ozimoron]

You start off with an anti mask agenda. Says it all.

[scubascuba3]

I've started going to a street food place where the old lady seems to dislike farangs, immediately puts the mask on when i order, one day I'll get a smile out of her 

[Seppius]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You start off with an anti mask agenda. Says it all.

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

[Lorry]

The lady in Bangkok Bank figures an anti-masker is an irresponsible and unhygienic person who doesn't care if he infects others. 

I avoid to deal with this kind of person, but her job forces her to speak with you. 

So obviously, she doesn't take off her mask. She isn't stupid.

 

But what exactly do the American culture wars have to do with the health forum of Thai Visa?

Edited February 19, 2023 by Lorry

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, Seppius said:

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

You quote from a known anti masking right wing vax denying source.

 

https://theconversation.com/evidence-shows-that-yes-masks-prevent-covid-19-and-surgical-masks-are-the-way-to-go-167963

[Doctor Tom]

19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've started going to a street food place where the old lady seems to dislike farangs, immediately puts the mask on when i order, one day I'll get a smile out of her 

Don't go, I wouldn't 

[ozimoron]

22 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I've started going to a street food place where the old lady seems to dislike farangs, immediately puts the mask on when i order, one day I'll get a smile out of her 

She does that not because of a dislike for farangs but it is a convention here in Thailand that serving staff always wear masks, at least they do in Pattaya. When a customer arrives she puts on a mask. Quite normal behaviour.

Edited February 19, 2023 by ozimoron

[Seppius]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You quote from a known anti masking right wing vax denying source.

 

https://theconversation.com/evidence-shows-that-yes-masks-prevent-covid-19-and-surgical-masks-are-the-way-to-go-167963

Are you suggesting The Cochrane Library is right wing?

 

"Cochrane is an international network with headquarters in the UK, a registered not-for-profit organization, and a member of the UK National Council for Voluntary Organizations.

Cochrane is for anyone interested in using high-quality information to make health decisions. Whether you are a clinician, patient or carer, researcher, or policy-maker, Cochrane evidence provides a powerful tool to enhance your healthcare knowledge and decision-making".

 

 

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

She does that not because of a dislike for farangs but it is a convention here in Thailand that serving staff always wear masks, at least they do in Pattaya. When a customer arrives she puts on a mask. Quite normal behaviour.

It's noticable, she's got an attitude for some reason. My other street food places don't wear masks. I reckon she foolishly thinks farang are bringing covid

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Seppius said:

Are you suggesting The Cochrane Library is right wing?

 

"Cochrane is an international network with headquarters in the UK, a registered not-for-profit organization, and a member of the UK National Council for Voluntary Organizations.

Cochrane is for anyone interested in using high-quality information to make health decisions. Whether you are a clinician, patient or carer, researcher, or policy-maker, Cochrane evidence provides a powerful tool to enhance your healthcare knowledge and decision-making".

No, I'm saying the daily mail is right wing and low factual reporting.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

Edited February 19, 2023 by ozimoron

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Don't go, I wouldn't 

She's 3rd choice currently when others are closed, foods the best

[brewsterbudgen]

Masks will be around for a while, but their use is declining by the day.  Even my son's school has finally relented and no longer insists that kids need to be masked up in class.  Not before time!

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's noticable, she's got an attitude for some reason. My other street food places don't wear masks. I reckon she foolishly thinks farang are bringing covid

Well, I can't claim she isn't biased. My experience is the overwhelming majority of street food vendors wear masks and virtually all indoor serving staff wear them. That's all. Certainly mask wearinh among the general population has fallen off but not among serving staff outside of bars.

[sqwakvfr]

Just flew with ANA(BKK-NRT-LAX and back)  Masks were mandatory.  All passengers were constantly advised that you can only take the masks to eat or drink. I flew Singapore Airlines last fall and masks were optional.  It looks like in some places "masks are here to stay". 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, Seppius said:

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

It's not pointless at all.

 

If you decide to visit a bank or office where the customer service staff wear masks and expect you to do also, and you want.......customer service........then just wear a mask.

 

On the another hand, if you want to be ignored, given minimal attention, or possibly asked to leave, then go ahead and stand up for your "rights."

[BananaStrong]

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

She's 3rd choice currently when others are closed, foods the best

She hates you because of how you look.   despises you so much she wears a mask.  You probably get her mad and raise her blood pressure just by showing up.  You take time and give her money!!!!

 

I don't care if she's a 5-star chef........... this is food made with hate, not love.   lol

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Seppius said:

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

Read the actual Cochrane review in its entirety and not a synopsis by an individual who has an agenda please.  The Cochrane Review did not do an independent study on its own, they just reviewed many of the studies done prior to Covid on mask wearing. They say they are uncertain as the evidence and studies they researched had low adherence with interventions.  Do yourself a favor and do a little more research of your own instead of believing agenda driven articles.

 

https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses

 

Key messages
We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we assessed.

 

Authors' conclusions: 

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Seppius said:

Are you suggesting The Cochrane Library is right wing?

 

"Cochrane is an international network with headquarters in the UK, a registered not-for-profit organization, and a member of the UK National Council for Voluntary Organizations.

Cochrane is for anyone interested in using high-quality information to make health decisions. Whether you are a clinician, patient or carer, researcher, or policy-maker, Cochrane evidence provides a powerful tool to enhance your healthcare knowledge and decision-making".

 

 

Read the Cochrane study and not a diatribe piece written by an individual with a known conspiracy pseudoscience driven agenda and bias.

 

Search Results for https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

 

Pseudoscience Dictionary: Mask Misinformation

Pseudoscience: Consists of statements, beliefs, or practices that are claimed to be both scientific and factual but are incompatible with the scientific method (unproven, not testable, or…

Edited February 19, 2023 by ThailandRyan

[cooked]

57 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

You quote from a known anti masking right wing vax denying source.

 

https://theconversation.com/evidence-shows-that-yes-masks-prevent-covid-19-and-surgical-masks-are-the-way-to-go-167963

Possibly because only right wing publications are mentioning this. At last count, since Covid began, I think it was 28 studies made on mask wearing, Nearly all indicated that mask wearing against an air born virus is pointless. Instead of reacting "Oh, Daily Mail, so it's rubbish", maybe you should read it and follow the references to the scientific studies that have beeen done. Surgical masks are for use during surgery, they stop bits of bone and blood spattering on to the carers' eyes, nose and mouth. 

I had to go to an extremely extreme further right than Hitler to get this reference, maybe you should do some research too: https://www.cureus.com/articles/93826-correlation-between-mask-compliance-and-covid-19-outcomes-in-europe#!/

 

  

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, BananaStrong said:

She hates you because of how you look.   despises you so much she wears a mask.  You probably get her mad and raise her blood pressure just by showing up.  You take time and give her money!!!!

 

I don't care if she's a 5-star chef........... this is food made with hate, not love.   lol

Very few street vendors hate regular customers who give them money, absent some other reason.

[ozimoron]

Just now, cooked said:

Possibly because only right wing publications are mentioning this. At last count, since Covid began, I think it was 28 studies made on mask wearing, Nearly all indicated that mask wearing against an air born virus is pointless. Instead of reacting "Oh, Daily Mail, so it's rubbish", maybe you should read it and follow the references to the scientific studies that have beeen done. Surgical masks are for use during surgery, they stop bits of bone and blood spattering on to the carers' eyes, nose and mouth. 

I had to go to an extremely extreme further right than Hitler to get this reference, maybe you should do some research too: https://www.cureus.com/articles/93826-correlation-between-mask-compliance-and-covid-19-outcomes-in-europe#!/

 

  

I have quoted a number of credible sources from medical authorities other than media outlets in various threads to support that masks reduce the spread of covid by non trivial amounts.

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, cooked said:

Possibly because only right wing publications are mentioning this. At last count, since Covid began, I think it was 28 studies made on mask wearing, Nearly all indicated that mask wearing against an air born virus is pointless. Instead of reacting "Oh, Daily Mail, so it's rubbish", maybe you should read it and follow the references to the scientific studies that have beeen done. Surgical masks are for use during surgery, they stop bits of bone and blood spattering on to the carers' eyes, nose and mouth. 

I had to go to an extremely extreme further right than Hitler to get this reference, maybe you should do some research too: https://www.cureus.com/articles/93826-correlation-between-mask-compliance-and-covid-19-outcomes-in-europe#!/

 

  

Do some better research please, the Cochrane research is not a study in itself but research of many studies including influenza and there conclusions are inconclusive.  So if you want to play the game look at the real article and read it all the way through.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, cooked said:

Of course. As I sort of mentioned, the majority (majority) of studies show that masks are useless. Medical authorities? The CDC? come on man. 

Sorry, I'm taking the advice of medical authorities (not just the CDC) over media with a proven bias every time. Masks haven't hurt me yet.

[Dmaxdan]

19 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

It's not pointless at all.

 

If you decide to visit a bank or office where the customer service staff wear masks and expect you to do also, and you want.......customer service........then just wear a mask.

 

On the another hand, if you want to be ignored, given minimal attention, or possibly asked to leave, then go ahead and stand up for your "rights."

Absolutely spot on. People that complain about about this forgot that these people are dealing with potentially hundreds of different customers everyday. 

It is extremely disrespectful to the staff to not wear a mask in banks, shops and offices etc.

When they choose not to wear a mask then that is the time to stop wearing one yourself.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, cooked said:

 https://www.cureus.com/articles/93826-correlation-between-mask-compliance-and-covid-19-outcomes-in-europe#!/

 

Science fact checking says this author's conclusions are flawed and wrong. Read the full article linked below that explains why, as I'm limited in how much of it I can quote here.

 

Scientific evidence shows that mask-wearing is effective at limiting community transmission; claims that face masks increase mortality are based on flawed correlation studies

...

"Well-designed studies that account for confounding have reported that widespread mask-wearing reduces the spread of COVID-19 in the community.

...

More importantly, Spira and Foegen’s analyses are fundamentally flawed and don’t support their own conclusions.

...

In their current form, the studies aren’t equipped to tell us whether there is a causal relationship between mask-wearing and a higher risk of death from COVID-19. The failure to recognize this limitation is known as the ecological fallacy."

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-shows-mask-wearing-effective-at-limiting-community-transmission-claims-face-masks-increase-mortality-based-on-flawed-correlation-studies/

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

she foolishly thinks farang are bringing covid

That's not foolish, that's smart. 

[scubascuba3]

14 minutes ago, Lorry said:

That's not foolish, that's smart. 

not smart, they were the same during covid when any farangs here were here for a long time so not bringing anything in. BTW it's an outside street food stall, very low risk with air circulating

[CharlieH]

Reported unsubstantiated claim has been reoved.

[ballpoint]

The main cause of human to human airborne transmission of any virus is through water droplets expelled from an infected person, usually through coughing, sneezing, speaking, or even just breathing. Once these droplets evaporate and/or fall to the ground or other surfaces the virus may either sit there, adsorbed to dust surfaces, or be truly air carried, by wind or other means, until it dies.  Wearing a mask when an infected person isn't is not going to fully protect you, as the virus could still land on your clothes, skin, outside of the mask, or surfaces you brush against.  On the other hand, wearing a mask when you are infected is a very effective way to prevent these droplets spreading as you exhale them*.  It prevents both direct person to person transmission, and infected droplets from contaminating surfaces.  You are not wearing a mask to protect yourself, you are wearing one to protect others.  You may well argue that you don't have covid, but how can you be sure that everyone around you is free from it?  You may as well argue that you don't need to wear a seatbelt because you're not going to crash, when you can't guarantee that someone else won't crash into you.

 

*For anyone doubting the effectiveness of a mask against exhaled water droplets, I have a simple challenge.  Stand facing someone, both without masks on, and have them cough, splutter and sneeze into your face.  Then both put on masks and do the same to them.