Before I die I plan to visit two Mexican cities recommended by world traveling friend who now lives in Guanajuato;

- Puebla and Guanajuato

Both are beautiful, peaceful, full of history and friendly people who actually like Norte Americanos!

Drug mafias are in the North, close to cocaine hungry American consumers...

 

I've been to Mexico City (too big/noisy/polluted).

And Ensenada and Tecate.  Not much beauty, just over the border Americans raising hell... me included that time ????

 

"The real Mexico" can be very nice and it's an excellent alternative to increasing unfriendly, polluted and noisy Thailand.

37 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

Before I die I plan to visit two Mexican cities recommended by world traveling friend who now lives in Guanajuato;

- Puebla and Guanajuato

Both are beautiful, peaceful, full of history and friendly people who actually like Norte Americanos!

Drug mafias are in the North, close to cocaine hungry American consumers...

 

I've been to Mexico City (too big/noisy/polluted).

And Ensenada and Tecate.  Not much beauty, just over the border Americans raising hell... me included that time ????

 

"The real Mexico" can be very nice and it's an excellent alternative to increasing unfriendly, polluted and noisy Thailand.

Puebla and Oaxaca compete for the top foodie cities in Mexico.

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I totally agree. Thai is not a pleasant sounding language. Not as bad as Mandarin. But, not exactly a sing song language. And far harder to learn than it needs to be. I have had the same experience. It almost feels like sometimes they are pretending to not understand. 

 

That would rarely happen in Latin America, where the general population is far more open to outsiders and far more linguistically creative. 

Never thought Thai sounded bad.

 

I kinda agree about Mandarin, which by the way is much harder to learn

 

I always tell folks to learn how to read and write when you are learning Thai, it will help the process.

Thai is an alphabet 44 letters and six tones so it's not so hard. You may well end up reading long before you become fluent.

 

Mandarin, which was my first tonal language is still a struggle after 20+ years. I read about 2500 characters, but it means I read and write like a 10 year old

2 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Never thought Thai sounded bad.

 

I kinda agree about Mandarin, which by the way is much harder to learn

 

I always tell folks to learn how to read and write when you are learning Thai, it will help the process.

Thai is an alphabet 44 letters and six tones so it's not so hard. You may well end up reading long before you become fluent.

 

Mandarin, which was my first tonal language is still a struggle after 20+ years. I read about 2500 characters, but it means I read and write like a 10 year old

Agree it's a must to learn to read first. Treat it like a code breaking exercise. But you can't learn the tones from reading unless you know the tone rules. So first, learn the alphabet. The children's wall charts are colour coded for the consonant classes, and have pictures. Then the tone rules. They do exist. Linguaphone used to include a booklet with their Thai course. I memorized it, and it's proved invaluable. In Thai, if you know how a word is spelt, you can work out the tone. A lot of problems arise from the fact that vowel length is extremely important also. And syllable/word endings. And, and, and! But who doesn't relish a challenge? Like crosswords, sudoku, wordle.

18 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

....

 

No matter your experience, you must be able to see that foreign people are not considered to be particularly high in terms of social status in Thailand, and are often discriminated against or exploited by some Thais.  I feel like I haven't experienced this to the same extent in other countries that I have visited, which was the reason for my question.

Very politely I strongly disagree - Thais tend to respect people with money and most educated faring have money compared to Thai people...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/11/british-woman-shot-partner-killed-mexico-armed-intruders/

<delete>

Been there done that. 

I like here better.

 

I was physically menaced twice in Mexico, in CDMX on the metro, and in Leon, by a pair of juveniles. Both never came to anything because I ignored them like they were invisible, and it worked!

 

The interstates are designed worse than Thailand.

 

If you are on them at night, you're likely going to be robbed or worse. 

 

I value safety, street crime against sober foriegners here is still rare. 

 

Plus side is it's like living in America, in terms of cheap abundance in the malls. 

 

If you come from a moderately violent US City, you'll probably be happier in Mexico, non US citizens I'd recommend stick to Asia, Portugal etc.

 

The Mexico Residence visa is easy to get, and there's no BS like here, it's done once, and done for life.  But it has changed, you MUST apply from your home nation, that includes Americans now.  

 

On 6/4/2023 at 5:16 PM, bignok said:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Mexico&city1=Mexico+City&country2=Argentina&city2=Buenos+Aires

 

Buenos Aires much cheaper than Mexico City.

It's also relatively unsafe compared to Thailand.

 

The nightlife is amazing, as are the BEEF restaurants, but I can't say I wanted to stay more than I had to for work. And I'm too old for the club scene now, by a generation or two. 

I've heard great things about Uruguay, just across the Rio De La Plata, but never heard of anyone getting a retirement residency there.

On 6/12/2023 at 9:58 AM, spidermike007 said:

after 10 years of living there, you are an honorary Mexican

I had exactly this experience... I have "residente permanente" and while waiting to enter Mexico via Mexico city airport I was holding my usa passport and my Mexican resident card. In immigration officer was walking down the line of foreigners waiting to enter.. He saw my resident card and invited me to enter via the mexican citizen line. I pointed out that I'm not Mexican... With a smile and a hand on my shoulder he said ".. No problem.. You are nearly a Mexican". 

 

Try getting THIS feeling in Thailand! 555 555

 

I miss feeling that I belong in a country... that the government and LOCALS make me feel welcome. 

5 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

I had exactly this experience... I have "residente permanente" and while waiting to enter Mexico via Mexico city airport I was holding my usa passport and my Mexican resident card. In immigration officer was walking down the line of foreigners waiting to enter.. He saw my resident card and invited me to enter via the mexican citizen line. I pointed out that I'm not Mexican... With a smile and a hand on my shoulder he said ".. No problem.. You are nearly a Mexican". 

 

Try getting THIS feeling in Thailand! 555 555

 

I miss feeling that I belong in a country... that the government and LOCALS make me feel welcome. 

That would never happen here, in a thousand years. There, they are gracious. Here, immigration are anything but. 

On 6/4/2023 at 10:54 AM, spidermike007 said:

Thailand is still reasonable. It used to be cheap. Has not been cheap for a long time. But, it is still reasonable. I know people who pay 10,000 baht a month for newer 3 bedroom houses in nice towns. In major cities in the US? $2000-3800 a month. That is 120,000 baht!

 

In Mexico in nice areas, expect to pay $1,000 per month, and up for a nice condo or a small house. 

 

10k for a house.

50 bht for a meal.

1000 bht an internal flight

 

If that's only reasonable what is cheap?

i just watched another video on youtube about mexican cartels.

they actually have folk songs about cartels where the cartels are hailed as heroes for going against the govt.

i don't know all the politics in mexico, but that sounds messed up when people think cartels are the good guys.

some people here complain that immigration doesn't smile at you and also the corruption in thailand.

but corruption in mexico seems far worse, the smiles at immigration notwithstanding.

personally, i don't think i will set foot in a country that can't sort out its cartel issues.

 

1 hour ago, sidjameson said:

10k for a house.

50 bht for a meal.

1000 bht an internal flight

 

If that's only reasonable what is cheap?

20 years ago, sex in Phnom Penh with a stunning gal was $10. The bar fine was $1. A short time room was $3. Need I say more? 

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

i just watched another video on youtube about mexican cartels.

they actually have folk songs about cartels where the cartels are hailed as heroes for going against the govt.

i don't know all the politics in mexico, but that sounds messed up when people think cartels are the good guys.

some people here complain that immigration doesn't smile at you and also the corruption in thailand.

but corruption in mexico seems far worse, the smiles at immigration notwithstanding.

personally, i don't think i will set foot in a country that can't sort out its cartel issues.

 

Yes in certain areas that happens.

The cartel becomes like local government.

They provide employment, security if you don't oppose them, welfare for the poor, community services and facilities. 

Yes it's twisted but it's understandable that loyalty is built that way.

Expats generally don't move into or visit such areas.

On 6/13/2023 at 6:51 AM, Jingthing said:

Yes in certain areas that happens.

The cartel becomes like local government.

They provide employment, security if you don't oppose them, welfare for the poor, community services and facilities. 

Yes it's twisted but it's understandable that loyalty is built that way.

Expats generally don't move into or visit such areas.

It is twisted I'll agree

 

But I've got family all over Mexico, and for the most parts folks live their lives like anyone in the US.

 

Granted I 'blend' in Mexico although my accent will always give me away, but I've never experienced any problems.

 

Now I've never been to the real cartel regions so maybe a biased view

I could easily enjoy the rest of my days living in Cabo San Lucas......and may do just that. 

 

The main drawback is that it has become subject to quite a bit of "Californication" which is one of the main reasons I left the US in the first place.    

2 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

I could easily enjoy the rest of my days living in Cabo San Lucas......and may do just that. 

 

The main drawback is that it has become subject to quite a bit of "Californication" which is one of the main reasons I left the US in the first place.    

Cabo is little America, and nothing wrong with that

58 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

I could easily enjoy the rest of my days living in Cabo San Lucas......and may do just that. 

 

The main drawback is that it has become subject to quite a bit of "Californication" which is one of the main reasons I left the US in the first place.    

There's the East Cape if you want something a little more rural.  

On 6/11/2023 at 8:58 PM, spidermike007 said:

Is there such a thing as integration and equality here? In Mexico, after 10 years of living there, you are an honorary Mexican. Here? I always feel like an outsider. Fortunately, I don't feel a need to belong. 

 

In all seriousness, I ask the question. 

I don't think any foreigner is ever fully integrated into Thai society.

 

I'm fluent in Thai and Lao, and even with my wives family I'll never be quite there.

 

I've had this conversation with my my son.

 

He was born and grew up in Singapore and when we moved to Thailand he also said he never felt totally accepted

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I don't think any foreigner is ever fully integrated into Thai society.

 

I'm fluent in Thai and Lao, and even with my wives family I'll never be quite there.

 

I've had this conversation with my my son.

 

He was born and grew up in Singapore and when we moved to Thailand he also said he never felt totally accepted

I am so grateful I have never really felt that "need to belong". Kind of felt like an outsider in America too. I am just here, loving my life, and I am "one of them". No big deal for me.

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I am so grateful I have never really felt that "need to belong". Kind of felt like an outsider in America too. I am just here, loving my life, and I am "one of them". No big deal for me.

That's an interesting comment to me as someone who was not in the mainstream in the U.S. Maybe it's easier for such people to deal with the "alienation" of being an expat?

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's an interesting comment to me as someone who was not in the mainstream in the U.S. Maybe it's easier for such people to deal with the "alienation" of being an expat?

I was not in the mainstream there, and most certainly am not here. I think if you are a truly independent thinker, and do not live your life within a tiny box of convention or tradition, you tend to be an outsider. I got used to that feeling as a teenager, and it has provided alot of comfort over these years. Though I am close to my sisters, even they consider me a black sheep and an outsider. All good. Does not mean much to me. And it does make living here alot easier.

So there are others... I thought I was the only one! maybe we should have a club ????

I got dual citizen ship plus 4 legal residences in other countries but still no place I feel home.

 

I never felt need to belong to anything but now I do. I want safety, security and beautiful surroundings where ever I live. One simple good test is "can you drink tap water?"

 

My next "legal residency" may be Spanish. I plan to check out Tenerife in coming winter. Gran Canaria had wonderful weather but the island is barren and ugly thanks to lack of rain.

If that doesn't work out then it's Mexico or other south of the border country, like Costa Rica or Panama.

 

I'll always like Thailand, and may visit too, thanks to women with warm hearts and genuine friendliness.

 

On 6/17/2023 at 10:41 PM, spidermike007 said:

I was not in the mainstream there, and most certainly am not here. I think if you are a truly independent thinker, and do not live your life within a tiny box of convention or tradition, you tend to be an outsider. I got used to that feeling as a teenager, and it has provided alot of comfort over these years. Though I am close to my sisters, even they consider me a black sheep and an outsider. All good. Does not mean much to me. And it does make living here alot easier.

We may be conflating two things here.

 

Many of us are loners, which often means we live somewhat at arms length from the mainstream.

 

I'm an odd duck, only child of an only child mother in an Hispanic family. I grew up to be very self sufficient and never really made true friends, in fact I can count them on one hand, all from my early childhood

 

Folks have come in and out of my life, in the US and throughout the world, I liked them but when we moved on never thought about them again.

 

Now as for integrating into a society not sure given my personality I could do it even if I wanted to.

 

I can skate of the surface and play the game, but at the end of the day I don't really care less if people accept me or not

 

 

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

We may be conflating two things here.

 

Many of us are loners, which often means we live somewhat at arms length from the mainstream.

 

I'm an odd duck, only child of an only child mother in an Hispanic family. I grew up to be very self sufficient and never really made true friends, in fact I can count them on one hand, all from my early childhood

 

Folks have come in and out of my life, in the US and throughout the world, I liked them but when we moved on never thought about them again.

 

Now as for integrating into a society not sure given my personality I could do it even if I wanted to.

 

I can skate of the surface and play the game, but at the end of the day I don't really care less if people accept me or not

 

 

And not caring about that very over rated thing called acceptance, is a very liberating way to live. I know it too, and I love it. Kudos to you.

On 6/18/2023 at 12:03 AM, GypsyT said:

So there are others... I thought I was the only one! maybe we should have a club ????

I got dual citizen ship plus 4 legal residences in other countries but still no place I feel home.

 

I never felt need to belong to anything but now I do. I want safety, security and beautiful surroundings where ever I live. One simple good test is "can you drink tap water?"

 

My next "legal residency" may be Spanish. I plan to check out Tenerife in coming winter. Gran Canaria had wonderful weather but the island is barren and ugly thanks to lack of rain.

If that doesn't work out then it's Mexico or other south of the border country, like Costa Rica or Panama.

 

I'll always like Thailand, and may visit too, thanks to women with warm hearts and genuine friendliness.

 

I think as we enter the final phase of our lives, many of us want familiarity more than anything.

 

Somewhere in the back of my head I'm pretty sure that drove me along with a son moving to the US that made us move too.

 

Yeah I speak Thai and Lao, and I can be comfortable, but it takes effort.

 

I sort of want no effort nowadays.

 

Without those pesky kids, I could easily have moved to Mexico for a no effort life

On 6/11/2023 at 10:35 PM, swissie said:

.. as they can hop back across the border, in case the country of Mexico starts to "disintegrate".

 

.. I think you mean when the USA REALLY starts to disintegrate. 

38 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

.. I think you mean when the USA REALLY starts to disintegrate. 

When? 

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

When? 

Exactly.!