Is there a realistic route to PR without being employed in Thailand?

[DD25]

I think it's quite easy to get PR if you work in Thailand but I'm less clear on whether it's achievable if you don't. Has anyone got it without an employment history?

[spicysalad]

I believe the only way is if you are female and marry a male Thai citizen.

[JayClay]

9 hours ago, DD25 said:

I think it's quite easy to get PR if you work in Thailand but I'm less clear on whether it's achievable if you don't

It's possible to get PR if you work in Thailand,  but it's far from easy.

 

I don't think it's technically achievable without working (or at least earning) here. I did once meet some random lawyer in a bar in Bangkok once who said he could sort out Permanent Residency for less than the price of an Elita visa. I was skeptical...

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, JayClay said:

don't think it's technically achievable without working (or at least earning) here

You can apply under investment

 

• You must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 consecutive yearly extensions in order to qualify.
• You must be a holder of a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting your application.
• You must be able to meet one of these categories to apply for PR status in Thailand:
  • Investment category (minimum 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)

[Mike Teavee]

19 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

You can apply under investment

 

• You must have had a Thai non-immigrant visa for at least three years prior to the submission of your application. Holders of multiple NON-Immigrant visas can not apply. You must have 3 consecutive yearly extensions in order to qualify.
• You must be a holder of a non-immigrant visa at the time of submitting your application.
• You must be able to meet one of these categories to apply for PR status in Thailand:
  • Investment category (minimum 3 – 10 Mil. Baht investment in Thailand)

Interesting... 3Million THB doesn't sound like a lot of money to have to invest, especially if the investment could be a Condo purchase... Does anybody know of anyone that's managed to get PR via the Investment Route?

 

In another thread I made a point that it was next to impossible for Retirees to get a PR & somebody suggested setting up your own business - Feels like a lot of hassle/expense but I guess it's an option for the determined. 

 

Edit: I've just found the 3Million THB Investment needs to be made in a "Limited or Public Company"

 

• Employment: You have held a Thailand Work Visa and Work Permit for at least three years, and:
  • You have an Extension of Stay based on Employment at the time of application
  • You have worked at your current company for at least one year at the time of application
  • You had a monthly salary of at least 80,000 Baht for two consecutive years or you filed a tax return for an annual income of at least 100,000 Baht for two consecutive years
• Investment: You have invested at least 3 Million Baht in a limited or public company in Thailand
• Family: You are a close family member of a Thai citizen (parent, child or spouse)
• Expert: You have at least a BA Degree and are employed in a position in which you have to work in for at least three consecutive years.
• Other categories that the Immigration Department considers eligible.

 

https://visaguide.world/asia/thailand-visa/residence-permit/

Edited July 15, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Pib]

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744

 

Clicking on the link of Paragraph 1 at above Immigration website will download an English language doc detailing the various ways to qualify for a PR like employment, relationship with a Thai, etc.,  While there are ways to qualify via investment/humanitarian/Thai relationship reasons, generally it's going to require having being currently employed in Thailand for at least 3 consecutive years, employment paying a certain amount,  paying Thai taxes, etc.   See doc at above link. 

[watchcat]

14 hours ago, DD25 said:

I think it's quite easy to get PR if you work in Thailand but I'm less clear on whether it's achievable if you don't. Has anyone got it without an employment history?

Why would you want a PR?

[Ben Zioner]

Honestly, why invest time, money and effort in PR when LTR is so easy to  get.  Took me 3 hours flat, expect the same in 5 years,  one 90 days [equivalent] a year, no financial constraints, etc...

[Mike Teavee]

15 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Honestly, why invest time, money and effort in PR when LTR is so easy to  get.  Took me 3 hours flat, expect the same in 5 years,  one 90 days [equivalent] a year, no financial constraints, etc...

I'd guesstimate < 5% of Retirees here have an income of > $80,000 or have an income > $40,000 & are willing to invest $250,000... in fact I'd guess that there are more Retirees that can't/don't want to invest the $25,000/800,000b for their annual extension than that.   

 

 

That aside the LTR is still a Non-Immigrant Visa whereas Permanent Residency is (as the name suggests) more permanent & can lead to Thai Citizenship with all the benefits (land ownership etc...) that comes with it.  

 

All things being equal I think most people would choose PR over LTR.

 

   

[DD25]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744

 

Clicking on the link of Paragraph 1 at above Immigration website will download an English language doc detailing the various ways to qualify for a PR like employment, relationship with a Thai, etc.,  While there are ways to qualify via investment/humanitarian/Thai relationship reasons, generally it's going to require having being currently employed in Thailand for at least 3 consecutive years, employment paying a certain amount,  paying Thai taxes, etc.   See doc at above link. 

Thanks - others in the thread are saying you have to be a female married to a male Thai citizen, but that doc just says spouse, so I'm not sure why I couldn't do it as a male married to a female Thai citizen (I mean I'm not married yet...). Also not sure if those are minimum criteria and it's then down to their discretion, or if it's a case of meet the criteria and you get PR.

[DD25]

3 hours ago, watchcat said:

Why would you want a PR?

 

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Honestly, why invest time, money and effort in PR when LTR is so easy to  get.  Took me 3 hours flat, expect the same in 5 years,  one 90 days [equivalent] a year, no financial constraints, etc...

I recently had to deal with the estate of a family member who died in the UK. There was a large inheritance tax bill to pay and it got me thinking about my own estate, although I am still young. At the same time I'm thinking of having kids in Thailand. It turns out that even if I never set foot in the UK again and the kids grew up entirely in Thailand, the chances are they would be liable to pay UK inheritance tax on my estate, including any Thai assets (well technically it's the estate that pays the tax, but it works out the same). I asked the lawyer if/how this could be avoided and he said that HMRC (the UK tax authority) would need to be convinced that you had decided to base yourself somewhere else permanently, and that that might be difficult to do if you didn't have the right to stay there permanently. Just being non-resident at the time of death is not enough. If you are on yearly extensions, his view is  that's a grey area and you could easily end up in a dispute. On the one hand you can realistically expect to be able to go on extending indefinitely, but on the other you don't have a right to extend, it's politically turbulent, etc. If you have PR there shouldn't be a problem and the estate will be subject to Thai inheritance tax, which is a lot less and seems more appropriate if I have lived most of my life in Thailand and the kids / beneficiaries are Thai.

 

Another way to say it would be that you need to convince the UK authorities that you have emigrated and it's hard to do that if you are on a non-immigrant visa.

[Pib]

51 minutes ago, DD25 said:

Thanks - others in the thread are saying you have to be a female married to a male Thai citizen, but that doc just says spouse, so I'm not sure why I couldn't do it as a male married to a female Thai citizen (I mean I'm not married yet...). Also not sure if those are minimum criteria and it's then down to their discretion, or if it's a case of meet the criteria and you get PR.

Yes...just needs to be a Thai spouse...female or male.  I expect most of the time the Thai spouse is the wife. This will also usually result in the wavering of the Thai language requirement.  It also cuts the PR certificate approval fee in half from approx Bt191K to Bt96K.

 

........

What is the Cost of a Thailand Permanent Residence Permit?

The Thailand Permanent Residence Permit processing fee is 7,600 Thai Baht.

If your application is approved, you have to pay another fee for the Permanent Residence Permit Certificate:

• 95,700 Thai Baht if you applied for Permanent Residency on the basis of marriage to a Thai citizen.
• 191,400 Thai Baht if you applied for Permanent Residency on the basis of employment, investment, expert, etc.

[DD25]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Yes...just needs to be a Thai spouse...female or male.  I expect most of the time the Thai spouse is the wife. This will also usually result in the wavering of the Thai language requirement.  It also cuts the PR certificate approval fee in half from approx Bt191K to Bt96K.

Now it seems almost too easy. Maybe it's the quota of 100 people / year that's the catch.

[007 RED]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Yes...just needs to be a Thai spouse...female or male.  I expect most of the time the Thai spouse is the wife. This will also usually result in the wavering of the Thai language requirement.  It also cuts the PR certificate approval fee in half from approx Bt191K to Bt96K.

"This will also usually result in the wavering of the Thai language requirement".

Because of a serious hearing impediment (90% loss of hearing in both ears), I have been unable to speak Thai apart from a few basic words/phrases and the test has been a major block for me considering PR.

 

Can you provide any evidence/link that the Thai language requirement is waived in the case of being married to a Thai spouse please. 

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, DD25 said:

Now it seems almost too easy. Maybe it's the quota of 100 people / year that's the catch.

No....it's just most  farangs living in Thailand are retirees, don't work or make enough "and pay Thai taxes," are not married to a Thai, and/or don't want to pay the high PR fee.  Plus if the stars line-up and you are approved for a PR that process can take a year or more which many people do not have the patience for.

 

PR's' are for a niche group just like the various LTR visas.

 

[Hummin]

6 hours ago, watchcat said:

Why would you want a PR?

Maybe because we do not know future requirements for long term visa, and want to make sure our investment in family, business, land and homes is not on jeapardy because we one day can not meet the requirements for long term visa such as marriage and retirement. Many right now struggle from renewal to renewal to make sure they have all up to date. Even use of agents, becoming more unsecured for some, and if can ot meet the economic financial requirements in first place, it drains an already limited budget that could had been spent on a month living expenses. 

[Ralf001]

21 hours ago, DD25 said:

I think it's quite easy to get PR if you work in Thailand 

I work here, it aint easy.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Honestly, why invest time, money and effort in PR when LTR is so easy to  get.  Took me 3 hours flat, expect the same in 5 years,  one 90 days [equivalent] a year, no financial constraints, etc...

Not so much PR for PR's sake and longevity of stay etc... But as a route to citizenship. 

 

One of the 'brick-walls' many of us will face in the future is the prohibitive cost of private health insurance. 

If we can secure citizenship, then Thai health care becomes a viable alternative. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

Can you provide any evidence/link that the Thai language requirement is waived in the case of being married to a Thai spouse please. 

It's not waived. 

But PR status is achieved on a points system and being married to a Thai spouse 'gives you points' and the language requirement is no longer 'mandatory' - an applicant can accrue points through other means. 

[DD25]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

PR status is achieved on a points system and being married to a Thai spouse 'gives you points'

I'm not seeing anything about points on the docs linked to above. It does say that if you meet the critieria you are eligible "to be considered for PR", as though there's a second stage where they decide if they are actually going to grant it, but I haven't seen anything so far on how they would make that decision. Is that where the points system comes in maybe?

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, DD25 said:

Maybe it's the quota of 100 people / year that's the catch.

That has never been a constraint for Westerners.

 

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

Can you provide any evidence/link that the Thai language requirement is waived in the case of being married to a Thai spouse please. 

It isn't.

 

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Maybe because we do not know future requirements for long term visa, and want to make sure our investment in family, business, land and homes is not on jeapardy because we one day can not meet the requirements for long term visa such as marriage and retirement.

This is the heart of it.The list of PR benefits is rather thin but the peace of mind it provides is incalculable.

 

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Not so much PR for PR's sake and longevity of stay etc... But as a route to citizenship. 

 

Is it not possible to go straight for citizenship and avoid PR altogether? Personally. I am not interested in citizenship though might have been 30 years ago.

 

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

One of the 'brick-walls' many of us will face in the future is the prohibitive cost of private health insurance. 

If we can secure citizenship, then Thai health care becomes a viable alternative. 

I had never considered this aspect but I see your point.

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, DD25 said:

Another way to say it would be that you need to convince the UK authorities that you have emigrated and it's hard to do that if you are on a non-immigrant visa.

One way is to not go there at all, for decades.

[jayboy]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

But PR status is achieved on a points system and being married to a Thai spouse 'gives you points' and the language requirement is no longer 'mandatory' - an applicant can accrue points through other means.

There is a points system but I have been assured by an unimpeachable source that exceptions are made from time to time if a candidate flops in one or more categories including the Thai language test.In truth they couldn't care less for example whether a candidate is married or not or whether he has a patchy educational background.What does matter in these iffy cases is the amount of tax tax paid.If a well connected/ non crook farang has paid buckets of tax over the prescribed period, he will get PR - even if not generating enough points in other areas.

[SAFETY FIRST]

22 hours ago, DD25 said:

think it's quite easy to get PR

They should make it much more difficult. 

 

Leave Thailand for the Thai's only.

 

Why poison Thailand with toxic foreigners. 

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic posts and the replies to them.

[Mike Teavee]

Apologies if this is a stupid question (have never considered getting married so have never considered it before) but if I were to marry my long term (4.5 years) Thai girlfriend could I apply for PR without ever having worked here ?
 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, 007 RED said:

"This will also usually result in the wavering of the Thai language requirement".

Because of a serious hearing impediment (90% loss of hearing in both ears), I have been unable to speak Thai apart from a few basic words/phrases and the test has been a major block for me considering PR.

 

Can you provide any evidence/link that the Thai language requirement is waived in the case of being married to a Thai spouse please. 

Red,

  Well, waived is probably not the word I should have used, but more like the Thai language requirement carries little weight in the review process and only a very/low level of understanding is needed....especially when you have a Thai spouse.   About a year ago when I did some serious googling on the PR requirements I came across several very creditable websites that gave good details and how when you have a Thai spouse the PR hurdles are lowered in some ways. I guess the Thai authorities don't want to disapprove a PR "just because a person can not speak Thai" when a Thai spouse is involved because the Thai spouse has no problem communicating with the foreigner PR applicant and the PR applicant has basically proven he can fit into Thai society by getting to the point in the PR process where an immigration officer(s) wants to ask a few questions in Thai...and even then if needed immigration would help the applicant to understand what is being asked.  Over the coming days I see if I can find those website again.   But in the interim, I did find the one below where it talks about the Thai language skills needed. 

 

https://attorneysinthailand.com/permanent-residence-in-thailand/

 

 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, DD25 said:

Now it seems almost too easy. Maybe it's the quota of 100 people / year that's the catch.

There is no quota for Permanent Residence (PR). PR holders are non-quota immigrants.

[DD25]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

f I were to marry my long term (4.5 years) Thai girlfriend could I apply for PR without ever having worked here ?

It says on the immigration website that you are eligible to apply if you have to have been married for 2 years (no such time limit if you pop out a kid, just saying...) and you meet the minimum income requirement. There does seem to be a discretionary stage after that though. That's what I'm not 100% clear on. There's a list of things they look at on the site (assets, income, relationship with Thai citizen, Thai language ability, I think a couple of others) but no thresholds e.g. must have THB x in assets.

[jayboy]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

especially when you have a Thai spouse.

Irrelevant.Makes no difference to the (not very high) standard of Thai language required.

 

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

I did some serious googling on the PR requirements I came across several very creditable websites that gave good details

No you didn't because there are no "very creditable websites" giving details of PR.Most are appalling and are littered with errors including the one you quote which wrongly suggests a work permit comes with PR.The only source that can really be recommended is Asean Now/formerly Thai Visa (this forum) which gives all the information the applicant needs to know.It's a a lot to wade through but all the information is here.

Edited July 15, 2023 by jayboy