Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[OneMoreFarang]

33 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

But don't say Fox or other silly right wing sites are the same as others that may have an opinion but fact check and have editorial standards.

Personally I think fox is right wing. But I remember talking to a guy, who seemed pretty rational, who told me he looks fox news and thinks they are most balanced. Are they? (It's a rhetorical question).

 

I think the biggest problem with media companies are omissions, things which they "forget" to report. I.e. a friend, who is not right-wing, asks me from time to time if I saw this or that thing about Biden. Most of the time I didn't know about these events, because the news which I read didn't include this information.

 

And then there are the comments. Sometimes I leave a comment under news in a left-oriented media source. Sometimes they publish my comments. But other times my comments just don't exist. I.e. there might be an article about what they call "the climate catastrophe", and 100% of the comments agree that this is the biggest problem on earth. I don't think they made up all those other comments. They just didn't publish what critical people commented.

I am sure that is reality on the left and right and everywhere.

 

[candide]

Let's forget about the troll and analyse the indictment...

 

"Former Vice President Mike Pence's notes were mentioned in the charging document of former President Donald Trump that came down Tuesday.

The notes were taken during a meeting with the former president sometime before the Jan. 6 riot. Pence's notes allegedly detailed what Trump said about election fraud and how he planned to challenge the election."

 

Donald Trump indicted: Mike Pence's notes referenced in charging document

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/courts/mike-pences-notes-referenced-charging-document

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The important thing here is that the grand jury saw the evidence and believe it compelling enough to issue the indictments. The indictment no matter which media its reported from remains the same.

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

[newnative]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

If he is found guilty, put him in prison. I have no problem with that.  Just do it in time for the GOP to have a fair chance at selecting another nominee for the 2024 election.

    Or, grow a pair and select another nominee in the first place, one that hasn't plotted to commit treason and overthrow the government, among other things.   Maybe select someone who won't tell his or her vice president that they are 'too honest'.  No chance of that with serial liar Trump.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

Do 70 million still want him as President after this? That's yet to be decided.

[Walker88]

"Truth isn't truth" -rudy

 

"Alternative Facts"---kellyanne conway

 

Quite the rabbithole trump's sycophants and toadies occupy.

 

Recall trump's Tweet encouraging his cult to descend on DC on 6 Janaury "It'll be wild !"

 

What is wild about a pro forma acknowledgement of the results of a free and fair election?

 

"Let's hope Mike Pence does the right thing" (sic)

 

The right thing was to certify what 50 States had already certified. Pence did that. trump complained that his VP had done his rightful duty. trump heard the chants of "Hang Mike Pence", yet sat and watched it on TV for 180 minutes without doing anything.

 

From the indictment we see the DoJ has proof that trump not only knew he lost, but was intimately involved with the plot to produce fake electors, who could overturn the will of the people and destroy American democracy.

 

trump will likely be indicted in GA for his attempts to coerce the GA SecState to 'find me 11,780 votes'.

 

A worse person has never occupied the WH nor an prominent position in the US. if convicted, trump should and must be handed the maximum punishment. If the crimes are capital crimes, that punishment includes death.

 

Make it so.

[watthong]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wasn't 100% of the time everywhere, and I don't really know what happened all the time everywhere.

It's complicated. 

Back in medieval times, this surely was complicated. "She swallowed a feather" reported in the next town as "the whole chicken flew out of her mouth!" Now we have smartphones and that helps.

[jerrymahoney]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

Hillary Clinton’s ‘deplorables’ speech shocked voters five years ago — but some feel it was prescient

August 31, 2021

 

Let’s start with the obvious: “Basket of deplorables” is a weird turn of phrase. There are baskets and there are deplorable people, but pairing the two is the oddest of linguistic odd couples.

 

Hillary Clinton said those three words in the final months of her 2016 presidential campaign, making rhetorical and political history.

 

There were two kinds of Donald Trump supporters, she explained: Voters who feel abandoned and desperate, who she placed in one metaphorical basket, and those she called “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic and Islamophobic” — her “basket of deplorables.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/08/31/deplorables-basket-hillary-clinton/

 

https://archive.is/aZUGk

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, bignok said:

Name 1 US president who never told lies.

How many lies? 30,000?

[Woof999]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

I think that there are many reasons, some reasonable.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time in typical Trump supporter areas and I honestly believe that a good number of them are:

 

1.) Racist

2.) Xenophobic

3.) Of low IQ

 

A dumb, racist xenophobe's actions cannot be assumed / predicted.

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

It did convince 81 million other voters. I'll see your 70 and raise you 10.

Edited August 2, 2023 by ozimoron

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

The issue is that the Indictment is not meant to change the minds of his 70 million supporters, the Indictment is to prosecute Trump for his crimes, which of course his followers believe were completely legal.  His supporters think he can lead the US out of where it was prior to his first election and where it is now.  They are being fed misinformation yet believe it, simple.  They believe he won and it was a conspiracy to remove him from office since the impeachments did not.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I think that there are many reasons, some reasonable.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time in typical Trump supporter areas and I honestly believe that a good number of them are:

 

1.) Racist

2.) Xenophobic

3.) Of low IQ

 

A dumb, racist xenophobe's actions cannot be assumed / predicted.

Some of the right senior wing trump advisers subscribe to paleo conservatism. Why MSN media do not usually point out the info I do not know. However, if you're interested in some detail...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoconservatism#:~:text=institutionalized cultural expressions".-,Ideology,gender%2C culture%2C and society.

Edited August 2, 2023 by simple1

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

"Truth isn't truth" -rudy

 

"Alternative Facts"---kellyanne conway

 

Quite the rabbithole trump's sycophants and toadies occupy.

 

Recall trump's Tweet encouraging his cult to descend on DC on 6 Janaury "It'll be wild !"

 

What is wild about a pro forma acknowledgement of the results of a free and fair election?

 

"Let's hope Mike Pence does the right thing" (sic)

 

The right thing was to certify what 50 States had already certified. Pence did that. trump complained that his VP had done his rightful duty. trump heard the chants of "Hang Mike Pence", yet sat and watched it on TV for 180 minutes without doing anything.

 

From the indictment we see the DoJ has proof that trump not only knew he lost, but was intimately involved with the plot to produce fake electors, who could overturn the will of the people and destroy American democracy.

 

trump will likely be indicted in GA for his attempts to coerce the GA SecState to 'find me 11,780 votes'.

 

A worse person has never occupied the WH nor an prominent position in the US. if convicted, trump should and must be handed the maximum punishment. If the crimes are capital crimes, that punishment includes death.

 

Make it so.

Lots of hidden agendas in Trumps innuendos which played into the insurrection.  Look at those convicted already, and they believed what they were doing was the right thing backed by trumps inciteful words.  Inciteful words are the crux of the issue.  His words echoed by others whipped the crowd into a frenzy on nothing more than a day of ceremony in documenting the EC votes to close out the election won by Biden.

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Hillary Clinton’s ‘deplorables’ speech shocked voters five years ago — but some feel it was prescient

August 31, 2021

 

Let’s start with the obvious: “Basket of deplorables” is a weird turn of phrase. There are baskets and there are deplorable people, but pairing the two is the oddest of linguistic odd couples.

 

Hillary Clinton said those three words in the final months of her 2016 presidential campaign, making rhetorical and political history.

 

There were two kinds of Donald Trump supporters, she explained: Voters who feel abandoned and desperate, who she placed in one metaphorical basket, and those she called “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic and Islamophobic” — her “basket of deplorables.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/08/31/deplorables-basket-hillary-clinton/

 

https://archive.is/aZUGk

 

 

 

Yet her words did not lead the charge to storm the capitol.

[jerrymahoney]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

They are being fed misinformation yet believe it, simple.  They believe he won and it was a conspiracy to remove him from office since the impeachments did not.

I will disagree: I don't think his supporters believe he won the election. They don't care. They think the USofA will crumble if Trump is not again President and they don't care what it takes for him to again get there.

[Woof999]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It did convince 81 million other voters. I'll see your 70 and raise you 10.

That reminds me of one of Trump's arguments immediately after the election.

 

Paraphrasing, he said that he must have won the election because he received more votes than any other candidate in history. Of course, totally ignoring the fact that the OTHER candidate is the one that actually received more votes than any other candidate in history.

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Or, grow a pair and select another nominee in the first place, one that hasn't plotted to commit treason and overthrow the government, among other things.   Maybe select someone who won't tell his or her vice president that they are 'too honest'.  No chance of that with serial liar Trump.

The 2024 election has already been hampered and I am not sure there would be time to find someone untarnished on either side.  

[Woof999]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Some of the senior wing trump advisers subscribe to paleo conservatism. Why MSN media do not usually point out the info I do not know. However, if you're interested in some detail...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoconservatism#:~:text=institutionalized cultural expressions".-,Ideology,gender%2C culture%2C and society.

Good point. I forgot to include religious in my description of a typical Trumpite.

 

I found that link interesting by the way.

[malibukid]

7 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Does any of this result in a prison term ?

absolutely

[ozimoron]

Hillary Clinton was right. Trump’s supporters are deplorable.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/6/23/hillary-clinton-was-right

[Bkk Brian]

20 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

I think that there are many reasons, some reasonable.

 

I've spent a fair amount of time in typical Trump supporter areas and I honestly believe that a good number of them are:

 

1.) Racist

2.) Xenophobic

3.) Of low IQ

 

A dumb, racist xenophobe's actions cannot be assumed / predicted.

They are not all like this but...........................

 

 

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, Berkshire said:

If we can get every Republican voter to read the indictment, then we would have an informed electorate.  Of course, most of said voters do not want to be informed.

Many of his supporters probably can't read.

[newnative]

45 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I follow "the news" and I think I have a good idea what is going on.

But then, those 70,000,000 Trump supporters will likely also follow some news. Maybe fox news, maybe TRUTH (or whatever Trump's version of Twitter is called), etc.

Are they all stupid? I am sure some of them are stupid. But likely there will be also a lot of people who think they know "the truth" but it is another version of what I think is the truth.

 

A local example is what happened in Bangkok in 2010. I was here, maybe 3km away from the events, and I think I know what happened. But other people, who also live in Bangkok, disagree with me. And then there were the news reports from media organizations all over the world. Somehow many of them had differnt versions of the truth. So who is right? Obviously I think that I know what I saw. But then, I wasn't 100% of the time everywhere, and I don't really know what happened all the time everywhere.

It's complicated. 

 

 

     One ray of hope to keep in mind.  Those 70 million Trump supporters you mention (actually 74 million and change) who voted for Trump in Nov. 2020, were voting for a sitting president who, at that point, had not done any of the criminal things he is now being charged with, including these latest charges and also the criminal mishandling of highly classified documents.   Plus, Georgia indictments still to come. 

   Being an optimistic, glass half-full guy, I can only hope that there are still some Republicans with a functioning brain who now have enough overwhelming evidence to finally, finally turn away from Trump.  I certainly hope he does not still have 74 million Americans who would, at this point, have to be brain-dead, who would vote for him again.  

[Tropposurfer]

6 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I read the document and in my lifetime I never have read something so shocking and so well laid out factually. Toast is an accurate summation.

It is indeed damning earlincla...

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[watthong]

You can download the indictment in pdf form here - it took me 2 sec to download. Enjoy.

 

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23893948/trumpindictment.pdf

[Walker88]

55 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, fine. But please tell me/us why that didn't convince the 70 million Trump supporters.

Why do they still want him as president?

Do they still think he won last time? 

Do they think he lost and lied but they don't care and want more of the same?

 

I find it strange what some people believe. But it seems they do believe in "alternative facts".

Why? Because most of them are low IQ idiots who have zero understanding of the US Constitution, and many think it only has one Amendment...the 2nd.

 

trump owns the Incel demographic, he owns the Neo Nazi demographic, he owns the white supremacist demographic, he own the QAnon demographic (people who believe Tom Hanks and Hillary kidnap, rape, roast and eat babies, all done in the basement of a pizza parlor in DC that doesn't even have a basement. None of those are the brightest bulbs.

 

By definition, half the people are below average intelligence. Move farther left of the mean on the IQ Bell Curve, into the areas defined as "moron", "imbecile" and "idiot", and you are in trumpistan. The US has around 240 million potential voters. Assuming 120 million of them are of below average intelligence, it is little wonder a clown like trump can pull 70 million votes. Fortunately, Biden pulled millions more votes.

 

For better or worse, there is no minimum IQ regarding who can, or cannot vote. The judgement of someone who believes the QAnon drivel is---to say it politely---questionable. Still, they can vote.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

I will disagree: I don't think his supporters believe he won the election. They don't care. They think the USofA will crumble if Trump is not again President and they don't care what it takes for him to again get there.

 

This was the results of the latest poll addressing this issue I could find. Virtually all such polls find Republicans overwhelmingly believe that the election was stolen from Trump.

 

Republicans Increasingly Realize There’s No Evidence Of Election Fraud—But Most Still Think 2020 Election Was Stolen Anyway, Poll Finds

The CNN poll, conducted March 8-12 among 1,045 Republicans and Republican-leaning Independents, found 63% of respondents believe Biden did not legitimately win the 2020 election, while 37% believe he did

Of that 63%, only 52% say they think there’s “solid evidence” the election was stolen, while 48% say they’re going based on “suspicion only.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/14/republicans-increasingly-realize-theres-no-evidence-of-election-fraud-but-most-still-think-2020-election-was-stolen-anyway-poll-finds/

 

 

 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, bignok said:

Judge is a black woman appointed by Obama.

 

No bias here.

Nearly 4% of POTUS Trump's judge nominees have been black vs. 18% black under POTUS Obama.

About 6% from both POTUS were Asian-American. 

POTUS Trump judicial confirmations was further 86% white vs POTUS Obama at 64%.

If you want to claim bias, then it's in favor of Whites.