Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[jaideedave]

41 minutes ago, jvs said:

More info needed for sure but if it means retirees have to pay tax here

there will be not enough airplanes going back to Europe and other countries.

It will be a total disaster for many people including me.

Lets just wait for the small print before getting all worried and hope for the best.

On the other hand,if you have to pay tax here it should also give you some rights?

Probably not.

I don't know about others but I survive here on my pension income from abroad. Its taxed at source.Maybe more red tape for expats proving that their income is already taxed.A big can of worms if instituted. BTW how much is a 1 way ticket to Phnom Phen these days? With the predicted increases in the 800k in the bank rule and all this crap it may spur some to consider another country for retirement.

Albeit too soon to react.

[BenStark]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

or wealth that is located abroad…and has brought these assets into Thailand…

I know Thailand has tax agreements with many countries, so it would be easy to prove your pension was taxed at source.

But how about the above? How do you prove tax was paid on your wealth?

[Emdog]

Reminding those who say we pay no taxes here: the 7% VAT gets us all the time

And those who think taxes pay for police protection "not getting mugged"(really? how about traffic violations, shoddy building crumbles, electrocution, etc), don't most of them live off of "fees" collected by the cops.

[gearbox]

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

That seems relevant only to people who are tax residents here. I don't have Thai tax file number and don't submit at all tax returns.

[NoDisplayName]

30 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Its about tax residence ie basically 180 days over living in Thailand and one is considered tax resident, nothing to do with a visa length or immigration.

Okay, fine. 

 

There is no minimum time spent in Thailand required to maintain a "retirement" visa extension.  I can keep my 800K in the bank, spend 181 days in other countries, and send my Wise transfers to a Cambodian bank account.  Can carry my Thai spending money in my wallet on frequent visits.

 

No, wait........why AM I going to all this trouble?

[Mike Teavee]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Could also be that the individual amount of pension received by some folks is under the Thai personl tax threshhold.

Less than 150,000b pa! - How do you live on 12,500b pm! (No don't answer that)!!!

 

For anybody who's interested here are the current Thai Tax Rate bands... 

 

[sirineou]

30 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

In the USA we are tax residents of the USA no matter where we live, thankfully there is a tax treaty between the USA and Thailand.

It all depends on how foreign income will be taxed in Thailand.

Usually these tax treaties subtract the tax you pay in your home country, from the required tax in the country you are an expat. If the tax you pay in your home country is higher or equal to the tax in the expat country then you don't pay anything. But if the tax you pay in your home country is lower than the tax in the expat country , then you pay the difference. 

So if the tax rate in Thailand is lower than your home country you pay nothing, but if it is higher you will pay the difference. 

So let's wait and see how this thing plays out,

One good thing that could come out from paying tax here, is that you might get some residency benefits. I would not mind some sort of scheme where we could use the Thai national insurance plan.   

[smedly]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

so does this mean all incoming money transfers from abroad, if so will they will be taxing pensions as well when they are transferred from other countries

I believe this applies to Thai nationals only, foreigner nationals are already taxed in their home country 

[lordgrinz]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

It all depends on how foreign income will be taxed in Thailand.

Usually these tax treaties subtract the tax you pay in your home country, from the required tax in the country you are an expat. If the tax you pay in your home country is higher or equal to the tax in the expat country then you don't pay anything. But if the tax you pay in your home country is lower than the tax in the expat country , then you pay the difference. 

So if the tax rate in Thailand is lower than your home country you pay nothing, but if it is higher you will pay the difference. 

So let's wait and see how this thing plays out,

One good thing that could come out from paying tax here, is that you might get some residency benefits. I would not mind some sort of scheme where we could use the Thai national insurance plan.   

I'm pretty sure I won't pay any tax, otherwise I am confident that being required to do so would be enough to convince my wife to finally leave this cesspool. We could live a way better life back in the states, and only have to deal with setting up a green card , no more 90 days, money in the bank, TM30's, Re-Entry permits, etc. Just way less hassles, and we could all come and go from the USA whenever we want without being hassled by the likes of the Thai Mafia.

[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, gearbox said:

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

That seems relevant only to people who are tax residents here. I don't have Thai tax file number and don't submit at all tax returns.

If you are here more than 180 days you are eligible for tax and should file - historically the authorities have not enforced this and there was the loophole of not transferring in the year earned. With the linking of databases it might be that anyone who is here more than 180 days must file.

[Celsius]

People pay taxes?

 

HAHAHAHA

[smedly]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

I'm thinking a lot of you have your "nickers in a twist" over an item that will not effect you!

correct

[WHansen]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

I'm thinking a lot of you have your "nickers in a twist" over an item that will not effect you!

Agreed

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

In the USA we are tax residents of the USA no matter where we live, thankfully there is a tax treaty between the USA and Thailand.

Not true.

[smedly]

51 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Involuntarily if they introduce a requirement of "All Thai taxes paid" as a way of making retirement extensions less "easy". They already link to the Revenue Department database for checking tax status with non B for work apparently.

of course they do, if you work here earning an income you will be taxed, same as any other country

[Thaindrew]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

But how will you live?  I save up my pension & send 5K UKP a number of times a year; will I be taxed on that?  I have 800K in a Thai bank & they tax the interest on that.  Is that reclaimable?

use an ATM card from your home country rather than transferring funds in that should negate any need to pay tax

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not true.

U.S. – THAILAND TAX TREATY 1998

Convention between the government of the United States of America and the government of the kingdom of Thailand for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income.

 

However there is a special provision with regard to Social Security:

 

Article 20: Pensions and Social Security Payments

Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered).

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/u-s-thai-tax-treaty-pensions-and-social-security-payments-article-20/

[lordgrinz]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not true.

I pay US taxes every year, they do not look the other way, ever! So, you'll have to elaborate on your simplistic response.

[smedly]

30 minutes ago, gearbox said:

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

That seems relevant only to people who are tax residents here. I don't have Thai tax file number and don't submit at all tax returns.

correct

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

In the USA we are tax residents of the USA no matter where we live, thankfully there is a tax treaty between the USA and Thailand.

I'll correct you "tax cattle"

[Jenkins9039]

How does that work alongside the Elite Visa, and also in respect of leaving external of Thailand to mature?

[JayBird]

So expats who reside here and bring in some of their savings each year will need to pay tax on bringing that money on?

[Sheryl]

I strongly suggest people click on the link and read the full article, which clearly states:

 

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

There is then a link to show which those countries are. 61 countries listed, including US, UK, Australia and many European countries.

[Thaindrew]

32 minutes ago, gearbox said:

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

That seems relevant only to people who are tax residents here. I don't have Thai tax file number and don't submit at all tax returns.

its going to depend how they apply this, Thai Elite Visa is a tourist visa that kets you stay for a year at a time, so you are a tourist but you could also be here over 180 days ..... 

[JayBird]

Just now, Sheryl said:

I strongly suggest people click on the link and read the full article, which clearly states:

 

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand. "

 

There is then a link to show which those countries are. 61 countries listed, including US, UK, Australia and many European countries.

Is it possible that those in Thailand elite which is a tourist visa, do not pay taxes.  But those on a retirement or marriage visa will?

 

(For purposes of bringing in money for spending or even to put in the bank for income requirement)?

[Zack61]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

I'm thinking a lot of you have your "nickers in a twist" over an item that will not effect you!

I concur 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

I pay US taxes every year, they do not look the other way, ever! So, you'll have to elaborate on your simplistic response.

If you're living in Thailand most of the time you're technically a tax resident in Thailand. You're conflating tax residency with US global taxation of US citizens. Being a tax resident of Thailand does not stop that. Only renouncing US citizenship stops that.

[jvs]

They are trying to dig up some cash but in this instance not from Retirees.

They just started another hunt on nominee companies in a bunch of provinces.

If they get serious about that then it really will affect the retirees big time!

 

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

No doubt foreigners residing in Thailand and making use of govt services and infrastructure should be paying tax in Thailand, this is a fuction of the world order.

Are you including Thai Immigration's Inquisition-like examinations as a government "service" we are using?

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

I pay US taxes every year, they do not look the other way, ever! So, you'll have to elaborate on your simplistic response.

you can give up your US nationality but must become a national of the country of resdence