Opinion: Thailand’s ambitious plan to tax incoming funds risks falling flat due to lack of clarity

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, Enzian said:

Myself, if needed, can have everything wrapped up and be out of here for good within two months at most.

Do you think the government cares what you and other foreigners think?

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

As it stands, the proposed taxation on incoming funds is a well-intended but half-baked plan, a ship sailing into murky waters without a compass.

 

This just sums up the whole scheme in a nutshell.

As does any other scheme the government comes up with. But it's okay. They also usually come along with a U-turn within days, saying it's all a misunderstanding.

[lordgrinz]

7 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

Well its doing wonders for the THB/USD exchange right now, its at 35.905 and climbing! Here's hoping the Pheu Thai cause a financial collapse, would like to see the THB/USD to head above 40 before the end of the year.....555

Its at 35.945 ......that took only minutes.....this is hilarious! 555

Edited September 19, 2023 by lordgrinz

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Do you think the government cares what you and other foreigners think?

I think they must. Otherwise, why do they go around begging for foreign investment deals? What happens when the perception of this place is that is run by people with the attention span of a toddler and the planning ability of a boatload of pirates?

[redwood1]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by redwood1

[wwest5829]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

Interesting. So Article VI (3) reads: "3. Companies of either Party shall not be subject within the territories of the other Party, to the payment of taxes upon income not attributable to sources within such territories, or upon transactions or capital not attributable to the operations and investments thereof within such territories." But Article VI (1) reads, in part: "1. Nationals and companies of either Party shall not be subject to the payment of taxes, fees or charges within the territories of the other Party, or to requirements with respect to the levy and collection thereof, more burdensome than those borne by nationals of all third countries."

 

So as an individual, this treaty does not help. You should read the Thai-US treaty on double taxation. You can probably get a credit on your US taxes for income taxes paid to Thailand.

You cite exactly the article in question. As a National of the USA and taxed there, I would not be subject to the same tax again in Thailand. This citation is currently being used by some Americans in Thailand on the argument that they are subject to Thai taxation and thus not the U.S. taxation. Currently this does nor affect me, I file my income tax fo4 s annually but am below the level where I owe any income taxes.

[Bangkok Barry]

27 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Kidnapping for ransom is probably coming soon too.  Lets face it they must be running out of ways to parasite farang and get away with it.  Its no wonder this country was never colonised, raped, plundered and exploited........the colonisers were scared of being raped, plundered and exploited instead!

I've never understood why Thailand is proud never to have been colonised. Those in the region that have been have superior infrastructure, a proper legal system, good schools and so on. Give the country back to some though, as in Burma, and see what happens.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Those in the region that have been have superior infrastructure, a proper legal system, good schools and so on. Give the country back to some though, as in Burma, and see what happens.

Much of the infrastructure, roads, airports, and port facilities, was built by the US during the Vietnam War. So were many of the vocational training programs. 

[Bangkok Barry]

The excellent linked article says that what is needed is a meticulously crafted policy .... but what we have is a half-baked plan, a ship sailing into murky waters without a compass.

Perfectly put.

[pookiki]

First problem that those of us who applied for an extension of stay based on retirement was that some embassies refused to provide income affidavits because they informed the Thai government that they were not in a position to verify the information.  For those of us affected by this change, we then had to show proof of an international transfer in the amount of 65,000 baht/month which complicated the process.  Now, it would appear that every person using the monthly income method would have to show that the source of funds is retirement income taxed in the home country and covered by 'bi-lateral' treaties. For those of us from the USA, we could have our social security directly deposited into a Bangkok Bank account at less than desirable exchange rates but what if we need more than social security to show an income of 65,000 baht/month? This could be the case with fluctuating exchange rates.  So, push everyone into the mandatory deposit of 800,000 baht instead - which is a fool's choice if you need money or think about what would happen to the money in the event of one's death.  To me, it is apparent that Thailand does not want retired expats anymore. It is a process that is too cumbersome and subject to arbitrary changes as this!

[wensiensheng]

2 hours ago, BenStark said:

Didn't I read just recently that the PM himself is being suspected of having used a tax loophole?

 

Any updates on that yet?

Loopholes, by definition, are perfectly legal. So why wouldn’t he avail himself of it?

[wensiensheng]

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I live here, I will pay these taxes, and you recognise me as a defacto naturalised Thai citizen with all the rights that entails.

 

It's only fair.

Do you seriously think that happens in any developed country?

 

Of course it doesn’t. You pay taxes when you become tax resident in a country and it gives you none of the benefits that simply being a citizen of that country would give.

 

give it a break with the being a victim syndrome will you.

[Anant72]

3 hours ago, mania said:

This is a big problem with this country & its so called "Ministers" of this & that.

 

Their plans are always clear as mud with zero foresight. Nor do they discuss first with the government/parliament or put things to a vote

 

No instead with their Napoleon syndrome they like to make grand announcements. ????

 

But take it back or not it shows all investors one thing & that is you can count on nothing stability wise in Thailand.

My thought exactly. Grand announcements, lots of fog and then poof!

[StayinThailand2much]

3 hours ago, bob smith said:

Just wait until all this uncertainty trickles down into the housing/condo markets!

Anyone with a brain will wait with a 2024 condo purchase until well after Jan. 1st to see how it will turn out in reality. I don't see how they will let in pensions or other transfers without instructing banks to deduct the tax upfront, just to have people prove that their money has already been taxed. The alternative would be to wait for the rich, as well as expats to declare their income and any taxation of it. I very much doubt the latter option will be chosen...

[BenStark]

Looks like forex market got the message as well.

 

[foreverlomsak]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The Thai Revenue Department’s recent announcement to impose taxes on funds entering the country from abroad

It's been in the Personal Tax detail since 2008 to my knowledge, first time I needed to submit a Thai tax return, so it's not new, they are only going to implement it.

If they haven't thought it through in 15 years, they still have 3 months min to clarify it so that it's as clear as mud (like nearly everything else) to everybody.

[spidermike007]

Really? The BOB (bottom of the barrel) picks for finance minister and the other so called leaders is less than expected, performance wise. What did they expect? When they are selected based on who they know, not much can be expected.

 

So far, no positive policy, no good ideas. No forward vision. Nothing but oppression, repression, suppression, lies, fabrications, deflection, a total unwillingness to man up and take responsibility for anything, enrichment for the army, economic destruction, and no coherent policy in regard to revitalizing the once vibrant tourism industry. 

 

If you had tried to reduce your nation from a once powerful giant tiger shark, to a tiny, insipid, sickly minnow, you could not have done a better job than following up nine long years of army rule, by allowing PT and Sretta, teamed up with the army goons, to lead the nation. To say they are adrift, would be diplomatic.

[TigerandDog]

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I am more concerned with any rise in retirement/marriage Visa income requirements or maintained balances. As to this proposal, I suspect as an American, subject to USA income tax on worldwide income, the Amity Treaty would kick in. If I understand it correctly, the Treaty provides agreement that citizens of the two countries will be protected from double taxation.

Australia has a similar tax treaty with Thailand, so technically should not affect funds being transferred from Oz

[Smokey and the Bandit]

4 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I live here, I will pay these taxes, and you recognise me as a defacto naturalised Thai citizen with all the rights that entails.

 

It's only fair.

Yes you have a good point, but it will never happen?

[tgw]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

This is misuderstood.

 

There is currently a loophole where funds earned overseas (eg tax free) can be brought in 1st January of the following year, still tax free.

 

This clause has been exploited by Thailand's rich and savvy digital nomads.  Thailand's rich are even sending money overseas from their companies as a deductible expense and then returning it to themselves personally tax free, all perfectly legal.

 

This what they want to stop, not you and your pension.

why don't they say so then ?

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

But I and my pension may well get caught in this amateurish fiasco.

 

If I had to pay Income tax it would cost me 850000 a year, I'd be glad to contribute this to help make  Thailand  a better country my girls could grow and live in. But we all know this money would only feed more lazy and corrupt government agents.

I'm ost, how can you pay 850,000Baht to the Thai Revenue (tax) Department from your pension income?

(unless of course it's a very very generous company pension scheme).

 

To get to the point, I believe the farang who are very concerned are mostly state pensioners? The burning question - will hesf olks have to pay Thai personal Tax? (or will then be under the Thai personal tax threshhold?)

[Ben Zioner]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I'm ost, how can you pay 850,000Baht to the Thai Revenue (tax) Department from your pension income?

(unless of course it's a very very generous company pension scheme).

 

To get to the point, I believe the farang who are very concerned are mostly state pensioners? The burning question - will hesf olks have to pay Thai personal Tax? (or will then be under the Thai personal tax threshhold?)

That's how, you ought to learn these things..

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[GeorgeCross]

16 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

That's how, you ought to learn these things..

 

 

i wonder what would happen if in your case you transferred 845K under the proposed rule or 100K for that matter.

 

100% claimed as tax or 30% ?

and if in the latter would the balance rollover to the following year?

 

devil will be in the details.

 

 

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I live here, I will pay these taxes, and you recognise me as a defacto naturalised Thai citizen with all the rights that entails.

 

It's only fair.

Is that how it works in your home country?

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, bob smith said:

Just wait until all this uncertainty trickles down into the housing/condo markets!

All those posh new high rises that have just been finished in BKK will be empty.

Agreed - imagine buying a 4 million baht house, and then having to pay say 8% on top of that as an additional tax for sending the 4 million to Thailand to buy it !

[Regyai]

TBH just the latest in the unending stream of perverse proclamations.

 

Always a knee jerk reaction to some grandiose idea, & always one hatched in the mind of someone gifted in engaging their mouth before exercising a scintilla of thought or research.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Regyai

[Mr Meeseeks]

17 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Is that how it works in your home country?

There's a proper pathway to citizenship for those inclined and qualified.

 

With that pathway comes certain tax requirements. 

 

What there will be in Thailand, appears to be the tax requirements of a resident yet with annual and very temporary (non-immigrant) visa renewals with no residency pathway (for most).

 

Do you not understand the difference?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Mr Meeseeks

[GeorgeCross]

14 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Agreed - imagine buying a 4 million baht house, and then having to pay say 8% on top of that as an additional tax for sending the 4 million to Thailand to buy it !

try 35% tax because thats the band 4M is in

[crazykopite]

6 hours ago, Enzian said:

Several times I've stated on forums that the fact that this government (even more than others) is perfectly capable of changing any rule in any way at any time is why I will never buy a condo here, or contemplate any other long term commitments for that matter. Even if this particular issue quickly blows over (or just doesn't apply to me personally), the point is only reinforced. Myself, if needed, can have everything wrapped up and be out of here for good within two months at most. Caveat emptor.

When I moved here 18+ years ago the money I brought over was money I was prepared to lose and that still remains however I invested in property from day one and have more than quadrupled my original income and enjoy a very comfortable life style so it’s a case of swings and roundabouts I did the opposite to you and touch wood it will continue my Chinese neighbour keeps asking me if I want to sell my current property my answer I will give you first offer if I decide to !

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Australia has a similar tax treaty with Thailand, so technically should not affect funds being transferred from Oz

UK used to have (circa 2005) a Double Taxation Agreement with Thailand, which stated Income earned in UK is taxed in the UK only, Income earned is Thailand is taxed in Thailand only.

Now the UK version seems to have double taxation possible, with only UK Government Pensions (not State) and UK Civil Service Pensions being able to claim a refund in the UK in the event of them being double taxed.