ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

The UN have become a pointless organisation; they gather all their evidence (from Gaza) directly from Hamas, accepting whatever Hamas tells them as factual.

 

Your reply is in reference to a post regarding  ICC. Your comments are incorrect, ICC is not a a member group of the UN. There have been a number of organisations alleging War Crimes, including UN representatives, by HAMAS and Israel. e.g...

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-journalists-international-court-investigation-ef7ec4fa597add8fb49d17358acf2576

 

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/the-rules-of-war-and-human-rights-in-the-israel-hamas-war

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/why-hamas-and-israel-are-both-alleged-to-have-broken-international-rules-of-war

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Exactly - Hamas has never been tried and found guilty by ICC - but their crimes are very clear. They have fired thousands of unguided rockets into Israel every year for a long time now.  Find the guilty verdict and I will stand corrected. 

 

That goes toward demonstrating that the ICC and the UN do not bear real authority, but rely on member countries to either comply or to aid in enforcing such matters. Neither works very well.

 

But since the course of this argument points to the larger issues of 'world government', 'world army' etc., I'm not sure critics would like to go there.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Like Mike Tyson's: “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”

 

There was a time in my life when I embraced this - starting fights without much of plan. Didn't work out that well, most times.

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

If Israel are stopped from destroying Hamas, then this will happen again and again. Either Hamas destroys Israel, or Israel destroys Hamas. Anyone who thinks a settlement can be reached is stupid - Hamas will 'play along' with that, while they rebuild their arms and tunnels. That is what they have done every time Israel backs off - hopefully this time they dont back off and they finish it.  

 

Let's cut the hysteria - Hamas is not going to destroy Israel. Israel is (supposedly) a nuclear armed country. Hamas is a terrorist organization with (mostly) local reach. 

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    You enjoyed this thread when Hamas were winning and had successfully committed war crimes in Israel, but the thread isn't "fun" anymore because Israel retaliated and declared war on Hamas  ?

 

I think the 'fun' part for him was the trolling bit, the death and destruction to either side a secondary concern, if that.

[norfolkandchance]

38 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Will the ICC and UN also be 'gathering evidence and witnesses and investigate and analyse all the evidence' regarding the atrocity done by the Hamas terrorists?  Of course not - why - because Hamas is not a member of UN or ICC - they are a terrorist organisation. 

 

One question to all the pro-Palestine supporters - when did you first hear about 'Palestine'.  For me it was when Palestine Terrorists did the 'Munich Massacre' at the 1972 Olympics. Munich massacre - Wikipedia

 

Remember. Israel has a long arm. The film 'Munich'.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Your reply is in reference to a post regarding  ICC. Your comments are incorrect, ICC is not a a member group of the UN

 

Incorrect, please try reading more carefully. This is the first part of the comment I was replying to: “Even the ICC and the UN still need to complete gathering evidence” I replied with a comment about the UN. If you look very carefully you will see the UN mentioned, and I replied with my assessment of the UN.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, norfolkandchance said:

Remember. Israel has a long arm. The film 'Munich'.

 

There were reports (linked up topic) about Israel setting a task force to identify all participants and 'deal' with them.

A whole lot of footage courtesy of Hamas men, Gazans and security cameras.

[freeworld]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin over six months ago. How has this helped the Ukrainians? Can they not find him? 

 

 

Erm.... Russia and many other nations do not recognise the ICC and have withdrawn, not signed or not ratified the treaty but there is an arrest warrant out.

 

But then the British ICC prosecutor is a wanted criminal himself.

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Your reply is in reference to a post regarding  ICC. Your comments are incorrect, ICC is not a a member group of the UN. There have been a number of organisations alleging War Crimes, including UN representatives, by HAMAS and Israel. e.g...

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-journalists-international-court-investigation-ef7ec4fa597add8fb49d17358acf2576

 

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/the-rules-of-war-and-human-rights-in-the-israel-hamas-war

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/why-hamas-and-israel-are-both-alleged-to-have-broken-international-rules-of-war

The ICC has a current annual budget of about US$185,000,000 and in over twenty years has indicted about 40 individuals and convicted six. 

 

What are they going to do to help resolve the conflict? 

 

The Role of the International Criminal Court | Council on Foreign Relations (cfr.org)

 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Erm.... Russia and many other nations do not recognise the ICC and have withdrawn, not signed or not ratified the treaty but there is an arrest warrant out.

 

But then the British ICC prosecutor is a wanted criminal himself.

So, the ICC is largely useless, correct? I think that was point. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, the ICC is largely useless, correct? I think that was point. 

 

Indeed, about as useful as the UN and the WHO; China, India, the US, Russia, and Israel are not ratified members, and Hamas obviously can’t be, so I have no idea why anyone bothers to mention the ICC in relation to this war.

[freeworld]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

So, the ICC is largely useless, correct? I think that was point. 

Not entirely, the stigma of a world leader being branded a criminal and restricting their movement and an arrest warrant out on them, one day the law will catch them.

 

He cannot even visit enter BRICS countries.

 

Just need to wait.

[norfolkandchance]

54 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This thread was fun but has  been taken over, as you say, by pro-Israelis 

 

What?

Hardly fun.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Not entirely, the stigma of a world leader being branded a criminal and restricting their movement and an arrest warrant out on them, one day the law will catch them.

I did say largely, yes?

Putin was not branded a criminal prior to six months ago?

How has the warrant restricted Putin's movement? 

One day what law will catch him? 

 

What law is going to go into Russia and arrest him? 

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

He cannot even visit enter BRICS countries.

He can't enter Russia? Surely you jest, and I doubt very much he can't get a meeting in China. 

 

What other BRICS country would he want to visit? 

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Just need to wait.

Yes, let's wait, all will be grand! 

[Paul Catton]

What a bun-fest.

 

Dwight D Eisenhower Carrier Group, since entering the Mediterranean is now in stealth mode, venturing towards the Suez Canal and providing military reinforcement to support any adverse activity within the Persian Gulf.

 

Logistically, what could go wrong.

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

26 minutes ago, Morch said:

Let's cut the hysteria - Hamas is not going to destroy Israel. Israel is (supposedly) a nuclear armed country. Hamas is a terrorist organization with (mostly) local reach. 

You are missing the point.  Hamas has declared again and again that their only acceptable solution to the issue, is the removal/death of all Jews and the removal of Israel. Hamas does not want peace.  If every soldier/person in Israel put down all their weapons and allowed Hamas to do whatever they wanted - they would kill them all. Proof is what they just did - especially the beheading of babies and children and the killing of civilians from other countries.  If Hamas put down all its weapons, Israel would not kill them all.

 

PS - unless I see the exact bodies to count, I do not believe word coming out of Hamas - they are lying terrorists who bombed their own hospital and then blamed Israel.  

[Eloquent pilgrim]

7 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

What a bun-fest.

 

Dwight D Eisenhower Carrier Group, since entering the Mediterranean is now in stealth mode, venturing towards the Suez Canal and providing military reinforcement to support any adverse activity within the Persian Gulf.

 

Logistically, what could go wrong.

 

 

 

Well quite obviously plenty, if one of the Houthi’s Iranian made rockets fired from Yemen got extremely lucky / unlucky

[freeworld]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I did say largely, yes?

Putin was not branded a criminal prior to six months ago?

How has the warrant restricted Putin's movement? 

One day what law will catch him? 

 

What law is going to go into Russia and arrest him? 

He can't enter Russia? Surely you jest, and I doubt very much he can't get a meeting in China. 

 

What other BRICS country would he want to visit? 

Yes, let's wait, all will be grand! 

Putin cannot enter or visit countries who have signed and ratified the ICC treaty.

 

He recently could not enter South Africa to attend a Brics meeting and he cannot attend many international events around the world. Recently also Brazil made a statement but that was quickly backtracked...because they are signatories to the ICC.

 

Putin is Russian, they have withdrawn and do not recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC. Why would Russia arrest him when they do not recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC on Russian territory.

 

Anyway, this digresses from the current topic...Israel is at war.

Edited November 2, 2023 by freeworld

[Thorgal]

23 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

What a bun-fest.

 

Dwight D Eisenhower Carrier Group, since entering the Mediterranean is now in stealth mode, venturing towards the Suez Canal and providing military reinforcement to support any adverse activity within the Persian Gulf.

 

Logistically, what could go wrong.

 

 

 

All commercial/private navigation is aborted as long as war ships are going through the Suez Canal.

 

Stealth mode = combat mode, because it's the perfect place for a false flag + many countries are not US-friendly (anymore) in the region : Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan,...

 

Strategically it's indeed not the best option to go through enemy areas.

[Yagoda]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

All commercial/private navigation is aborted as long as war ships are going through the Suez Canal.

 

Stealth mode = combat mode, because it's the perfect place for a false flag + many countries are not US-friendly (anymore) in the region : Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan,...

 

Strategically it's indeed not the best option to go through enemy areas.

Pakistan is not in the region. Get your geopolitics right

[Thorgal]

Just now, Yagoda said:

Pakistan is not in the region. Get your geopolitics right

 

US carrier group goes to Persian Gulf.

 

Pakistan is within reach of middle long range missiles.

[Bkk Brian]

This is tragic, we've heard from a few first responders now, here's another female one, what she describes was heartbreaking, the murder of a family and mutilation of a young child who was still alive but passed away.

 

 

[BarraMarra]

3 hours ago, bobbin said:

My final contribution to this thread.. I'll come back to the topic, not this thread, in a few more weeks..

Then we'll see what has transpired , despite all the anti-intellectual to-ing and fro-ing and often ridiculous comments contained here.

 

Hamas committed war crimes when they attacked October 7, killing women and children.

 

Israel is currently committing war crimes in their collective punishment of Gazan civilians, killing  women and children. Hamas is hiding underground.

 

Like it or not, Hamas pulled off a successful attack that caught the Israelis by surprise. Massive fail for the Israeli leadership, intelligence apparatus and military. They had the Gazans contained in an open-air prison camp, complete with barbed wire and high walls.  Israel controlled ingress and egress. And still missed the signs. This was well-prepared by Hamas and has an end-game.

 

They have put the Palestinian question back on the front-page, when the imminent Saudi/Israel pact was trying to ignore it. It's the root cause of the long-lasting conflict.

 

While it's easy to bomb Gaza from the air, the IDF is not up to the task of subduing Hamas in Gaza. The Israeli Army is too soft..under-trained for the task at hand.  The reservists are not battle-hardened. It will not invade Gaza in force. They would suffer massive casualties. The defender has the advantage in a ruined urban setting.  And also, Netanyahu has had the hard word from the US.

 

Israel is dead-set against a 2 State solution and so far they have been successfull in torpedoing it..

That's over.

 

Peace, in the form of a Palestinian State, will be imposed on Israel.

 

And I could care less what the peanut gallery, almost all pro-Israel with little knowledge of the back-story thinks... They will undoubtedly be throwing around words like "terrorist apologist", not knowing or caring that terrorism, conducted by Jewish immigrants to the Palestinian Mandate, were instrumental in founding the Jewish State. Which has a right to exist but not only on it's terms...

See Ya.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is tragic, we've heard from a few first responders now, here's another female one, what she describes was heartbreaking, the murder of a family and mutilation of a young child who was still alive but passed away.

 

 

 

Heartbreaking .... beyond description what these Hamas terrorists did. 

[Nick Carter icp]

25 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

All commercial/private navigation is aborted as long as war ships are going through the Suez Canal.

 

Stealth mode = combat mode, because it's the perfect place for a false flag + many countries are not US-friendly (anymore) in the region : Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan,...

 

Strategically it's indeed not the best option to go through enemy areas.

 

   There isn't a Country called Palestine though, never has been and probably never will be 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts, baiting posts and the replies contravening our Community Standards have been removed.

[BarraMarra]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Exactly - Hamas has never been tried and found guilty by ICC - but their crimes are very clear. They have fired thousands of unguided rockets into Israel every year for a long time now.  Find the guilty verdict and I will stand corrected. 

It takes a long time to get criminals into the Dock Troublandgrumpy. As seen in Kosavo and as far back as putting the members of the khmer Rouge in court for war crimes but they did. If i remember members who are in their 80s now were still put infront of war crimes in the Hague 4-5 years ago. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by BarraMarra

[Morch]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Not entirely, the stigma of a world leader being branded a criminal and restricting their movement and an arrest warrant out on them, one day the law will catch them.

 

He cannot even visit enter BRICS countries.

 

Just need to wait.

 

Wasn't Putin in China not long ago? Invited by the Thai PM for a visit?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You are missing the point.  Hamas has declared again and again that their only acceptable solution to the issue, is the removal/death of all Jews and the removal of Israel. Hamas does not want peace.  If every soldier/person in Israel put down all their weapons and allowed Hamas to do whatever they wanted - they would kill them all. Proof is what they just did - especially the beheading of babies and children and the killing of civilians from other countries.  If Hamas put down all its weapons, Israel would not kill them all.

 

PS - unless I see the exact bodies to count, I do not believe word coming out of Hamas - they are lying terrorists who bombed their own hospital and then blamed Israel.  

 

I'm not missing the point at all. Hamas cannot destroy Israel, regardless of how much they'd like to, and how much they talk about it. The blunders and failures related to the attack will be addressed - and even so, it came nowhere near to 'destroying' Israel.

 

Hamas is a threat for Israel, but not an existential one. And it will hopefully be a much lesser threat when the fighting is done.

 

There was nothing said about putting down weapons in my posts.