Gaza 'soon without fuel, medicine and food' - Israel authorities

[billd766]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm waiting for american planes to join in the bombing, I hope I'm wrong.

So do I.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

I'd like to think we're better than that.   Because if we're not, what's the point?

 

Sadly, it seems that the Israeli government is far worse than that. 

[tgw]

42 minutes ago, candide said:

You are right about public opinion in Western countries, probably not in Arab or Muslim countries.

 

and what does it say about these people ?

 

according to some Muslim clerics, people supporting the indiscriminate killing of innocents have no right to call themselves Muslims - or do they ?

[tgw]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Shame on Egypt?

 

How about shame on the Israeli governments over the decades for all their attempts at genocide and the absolutely complete control over a population who are fighting to regain what they once had. their own country which was, and still is, being stolen from them on a daily basis. 

 

An even bigger shame on the western countries who support Israel and have done for decades.

 

And an even bigger shame on the warmongering governments of Israel for doing it coldly, deliberately and with malice aforethought

 

Every living member of the Knesset should stand before the international court in the Hague, where the Germans stood in the courtroom at Nuremberg, and be accused of war crimes and genocide.

if your vision of justice becomes reality, what kind of justice should Palestinian murders face ?

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, tgw said:

and what does it say about these people ?

 

according to some Muslim clerics, people supporting the indiscriminate killing of innocents have no right to call themselves Muslims - or do they ?

I try to stay as far as I can away from ANY religion as IMHO as I don't trust or believe in religion since I was 18, and I am 79 now.

 

If you need to believe in something, believe in dogs. Most dogs are loyal, friendly, trusting and loving.

 

The polar opposite of religion and religious leaders worldwide. 

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, tgw said:

if your vision of justice becomes reality, what kind of justice should Palestinian murders face ?

Exactly the same.

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Shame on Egypt?

 

How about shame on the Israeli governments over the decades for all their attempts at genocide and the absolutely complete control over a population who are fighting to regain what they once had. their own country which was, and still is, being stolen from them on a daily basis. 

 

An even bigger shame on the western countries who support Israel and have done for decades.

 

And an even bigger shame on the warmongering governments of Israel for doing it coldly, deliberately and with malice aforethought

 

Every living member of the Knesset should stand before the international court in the Hague, where the Germans stood in the courtroom at Nuremberg, and be accused of war crimes and genocide.

Palestinian Arabs never had their "own country" but that's a typical Israel demonizer false belief.

[tgw]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Palestinian Arabs never had their "own country" but that's a typical Israel demonizer false belief.

what's not a false belief is that many Arabs from that region have been pushed out of their homes and their lands, including by murder.

 

I'd be interested in knowing how many Jews and how many Arabs were present in the area in 1947.

 

As the area had no "rightful owner" after the British left their mess (thank you the British), it's clear that both ethnic groups had their chance at building their country.

 

Typically though, Arab Muslims aren't very good at democracy, so I guess they would need a ruler to oppress them first before being able to agree/submit on how their country is run.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

What does Palestine need to become a stable country, content with its borders ? What will it take ?

Therein lies the conundrum, because how can a stable country be content with its borders, when they have been eroded/taken away from them by Israel and even what is left of their borders/country, is being "colonised" by illegal settlements, which is against UN mandates.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, tgw said:

what's not a false belief is that many Arabs from that region have been pushed out of their homes and their lands, including by murder.

 

I'd be interested in knowing how many Jews and how many Arabs were present in the area in 1947.

 

As the area had no "rightful owner" after the British left their mess (thank you the British), it's clear that both ethnic groups had their chance at building their country.

 

Typically though, Arab Muslims aren't very good at democracy, so I guess they would need a ruler to oppress them first before being able to agree/submit on how their country is run.

A little bit of history.

When early Zionist pioneers started migrating to Israel the Arabs were mostly in the hilly areas.

The coastal areas were mostly clear.

So the Zionists settled there. There were Arabs of course and they were paid for their land.

Going forward there was a lot of migration of Arabs from other Arab regions into the Zionist areas for economic reasons.

So the Jews were there before a lot of the Arabs.

I think only about 400,000 Arabs were actually displaced by the founding of Israel and many left that didn't need to leave.

And many of them were migrants, more recent than the Jews!

But now somewhat mysteriously there are many millions of "Palestinian Arabs" globally who think they have claims to Israel. Permanent refugees for how many decades now? What other displaced group has become PERMANENT refugees? That isn't Israel's fault -- that's mostly the Arab world's fault for not accepting the right of Israel to exist and not accepting the "Palestinian" Arabs to be integrated into their nations -- sticking them in camps instead. Best example -- Lebanon. 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Jingthing

[bignok]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Egypt also is responsible for the deaths of Palestinians in Gaza by not letting them flee as refugees.

Shame on them.

All muslims let them live there.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Therein lies the conundrum, because how can a stable country be content with its borders, when they have been eroded/taken away from them by Israel and even what is left of their borders/country, is being "colonised" by illegal settlements, which is against UN mandates.

Well all the Israeli settlements on the west bank have certainly made a two state solution much harder to accomplish, if not almost impossble. I do blame Israel for that.

But this war is against the Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

[proton]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Palestinian Arabs never had their "own country" but that's a typical Israel demonizer false belief.

No, but the could have had decades ago, they did not want it while Israel was there and decided to attack it, 1948, 1967, 1969, 1973 and on and on until the weekend. They never seem to learn from their own continuing mistake.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, proton said:

No, but the could have had decades ago, they did not want it while Israel was there and decided to attack it, 1948, 1967, 1969, 1973 and on and on until the weekend. They never seem to learn from their own continuing mistake.

Exactly!

[still kicking]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I'm sure your beloved Biden is going to inflame the situation by sending support, arms and troops to Israel. 

What the hell do you know you not even American 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

That's why I wrote in another thread "there must be more to the story"

 

I wonder if Hamas wants to provoke some kind of casus belli, if Israel goes hard on Gaza and Hamas, which countries would intervene to defend Palestinians ?

Could be any number of motives, and probably few are at play simultaneously.

 

- If Iran was involved, then payback for alleged Israeli attacks in Iran and Syria.

- If domestically, then bolstering position vs. Islamic Jihad and the PA (this relates to a possible prisoner swap deal)

- A current addition would be disrupting emerging relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel.

 

Guess there are others.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Sadly, it seems that the Israeli government is far worse than that. 

Far worse, how?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Therein lies the conundrum, because how can a stable country be content with its borders, when they have been eroded/taken away from them by Israel and even what is left of their borders/country, is being "colonised" by illegal settlements, which is against UN mandates.

By that rationale, there could either never be a Palestinian state, or that there will be one, but not held accountable for anything. Neither option is very promising.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

The population of the West Bank and Gaza is almost completely Palestinian Arab. The bulk of these are Sunni Muslims: 92 percent of West Bankers and 99 percent of Gazans, with the rest Christians. In addition to the Palestinian population, approximately 214,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank and Gaza, according to the Foundation for Middle East Peace in Washington, D.C.

 

Not sure what your point was? 

The Gazans are culturally affiliated with Egyptians, compared to the Palestinians of the West Bank.

 

They have been separated for 75+ years.

[Hawaiian]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I try to stay as far as I can away from ANY religion as IMHO as I don't trust or believe in religion since I was 18, and I am 79 now.

 

If you need to believe in something, believe in dogs. Most dogs are loyal, friendly, trusting and loving.

 

The polar opposite of religion and religious leaders worldwide. 

Religion, the root of all evil.  My parents sent me to a Catholic school to learn about Christianity, only for me to learn about hypocrisy. 

I am six years older than you consider my dog a trustworthy and loyal friend. 

[proton]

33 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Religion, the root of all evil.  My parents sent me to a Catholic school to learn about Christianity, only for me to learn about hypocrisy. 

I am six years older than you consider my dog a trustworthy and loyal friend. 

Only one religion is the root of all evil in the world today, your dog is only your friend until you stop feeding it!

[tgw]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Therein lies the conundrum, because how can a stable country be content with its borders, when they have been eroded/taken away from them by Israel and even what is left of their borders/country, is being "colonised" by illegal settlements, which is against UN mandates.

yes, blaming Israel's expansion is justified ... to an extent.

 

BUT ...

1- would Palestinians agree with the partition decided 1947 - 1948 ?
2- do they even have leaders that can agree ?
3- are they able to elect people and accept their rule and enforcement ?

 

all criticism of Israel's policies is moot if the only thing Palestinians can agree on is killing Jews.

 

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A little bit of history.

When early Zionist pioneers started migrating to Israel the Arabs were mostly in the hilly areas.

The coastal areas were mostly clear.

So the Zionists settled there. There were Arabs of course and they were paid for their land.

Going forward there was a lot of migration of Arabs from other Arab regions into the Zionist areas for economic reasons.

So the Jews were there before a lot of the Arabs.

I think only about 400,000 Arabs were actually displaced by the founding of Israel and many left that didn't need to leave.

And many of them were migrants, more recent than the Jews!

But now somewhat mysteriously there are many millions of "Palestinian Arabs" globally who think they have claims to Israel. Permanent refugees for how many decades now? What other displaced group has become PERMANENT refugees? That isn't Israel's fault -- that's mostly the Arab world's fault for not accepting the right of Israel to exist and not accepting the "Palestinian" Arabs to be integrated into their nations -- sticking them in camps instead. Best example -- Lebanon. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa

 

5 minutes on Google shows your "history" to be bogus. The city of Jaffa, for example, was majority Arab under Ottoman rule.

 

The Arabs fled or were evicted in 1947.

 

 

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa

 

5 minutes on Google shows your "history" to be bogus. The city of Jaffa, for example, was majority Arab under Ottoman rule.

 

The Arabs fled or were evicted in 1947.

 

 

I never said there were no Arabs on the coast during the Zionist pioneer times. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Palestinian Arabs never had their "own country" but that's a typical Israel demonizer false belief.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

 

Palestine, area of the eastern Mediterranean region, comprising parts of modern Israel and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip (along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea) and the West Bank (west of the Jordan River).

The term Palestine has been associated variously and sometimes controversially with this small region, which some have asserted also includes Jordan. Both the geographic area designated by the name and the political status of it have changed over the course of some three millennia. The region (or at least a part of it) is also known as the Holy Land and is held sacred among Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Since the 20th century it has been the object of conflicting claims of Jewish and Arab national movements, and the conflict has led to prolonged violence and, in several instances, open warfare.

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century CE in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria, and made its way thence into Arabic, where it has been used to describe the region at least since the early Islamic era. After Roman times the name had no official status until after World War I and the end of rule by the Ottoman Empire, when it was adopted for one of the regions mandated to Great Britain; in addition to an area roughly comprising present-day Israel and the West Bank, the mandate included the territory east of the Jordan River now constituting the Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan, which Britain placed under an administration separate from that of Palestine immediately after receiving the mandate for the territory.

 

Palestine seems to have been around for about 1200 years BCE, 

 

BCE = Common Era (CE) and Before the Common Era (BCE) are year notations for the Gregorian calendar the world's most widely used calendar era.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

 

Palestine, area of the eastern Mediterranean region, comprising parts of modern Israel and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip (along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea) and the West Bank (west of the Jordan River).

The term Palestine has been associated variously and sometimes controversially with this small region, which some have asserted also includes Jordan. Both the geographic area designated by the name and the political status of it have changed over the course of some three millennia. The region (or at least a part of it) is also known as the Holy Land and is held sacred among Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Since the 20th century it has been the object of conflicting claims of Jewish and Arab national movements, and the conflict has led to prolonged violence and, in several instances, open warfare.

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century CE in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria, and made its way thence into Arabic, where it has been used to describe the region at least since the early Islamic era. After Roman times the name had no official status until after World War I and the end of rule by the Ottoman Empire, when it was adopted for one of the regions mandated to Great Britain; in addition to an area roughly comprising present-day Israel and the West Bank, the mandate included the territory east of the Jordan River now constituting the Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan, which Britain placed under an administration separate from that of Palestine immediately after receiving the mandate for the territory.

 

Palestine seems to have been around for about 1200 years BCE, 

 

BCE = Common Era (CE) and Before the Common Era (BCE) are year notations for the Gregorian calendar the world's most widely used calendar era.

Palestinian Arabs as a distinctive identity group was an artificial political construct created by Egyptian raised Yasser Arafat.

Before Israel the Jews in the area identified as Palestinians.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, proton said:

No, but the could have had decades ago, they did not want it while Israel was there and decided to attack it, 1948, 1967, 1969, 1973 and on and on until the weekend. They never seem to learn from their own continuing mistake.

Please define Palestinian Arabs in the contents of those years you have mentioned.

[proton]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Palestinian Arabs as a distinctive identity group was an artificial political construct created by Egyptian raised Yasser Arafat.

Before Israel the Jews in the area identified as Palestinians.

Spot on, and not until the 1960's

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I never said there were no Arabs on the coast during the Zionist pioneer times. 

"When early Zionist pioneers started migrating to Israel the Arabs were mostly in the hilly areas.

The coastal areas were mostly clear.

So the Zionists settled there. There were Arabs of course and they were paid for their land."

 

It was majority Arab, but many fled under Israeli pressure in 1947-48.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Palestinian Arabs as a distinctive identity group was an artificial political construct created by Egyptian raised Yasser Arafat.

Before Israel the Jews in the area identified as Palestinians.

They were called "Arabs" by the Jews. Or "Palestinian Arabs".

 

You are using revionist history to make them disappear.