Bkk Brian Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The Israeli army took journalists to two towns in Gaza, highlighting the proximity of what it said was Hamas’s military facilities — including a rocket storehouse and a weapons plant — and nearby civilian infrastructure. The soldiers leading the tour said that the damage had predominantly been the fault of Hamas, both because the Oct. 7 raid forced Israel’s hand and because the group’s fighters had embedded in residential areas, using civilians as human shields. The Israeli army brought the journalists to Bureij and the neighboring town of Maghazi to try to emphasize that point. They highlighted the proximity of Hamas’s military facilities — including a rocket storehouse and a building that soldiers said was a weapons plant — and the nearby civilian infrastructure. Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, a commander at the front, pointed out residential apartment blocks from which, he said, Hamas fighters had fired on the Israeli army and soldiers were forced to fire back at the buildings. https://archive.ph/cBDmO https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/09/world/middleeast/israel-military-gaza-ruins.html 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Not disagreeing at all, but when a territory is under the control of another country, the controlling country, I understand, has an obligation under international law to provide food, water, medicine etc. They certainly don't have a right to starve them and allow disease to kill them. As usual, because of the US cover, israel gets away with ignoring it's obligations to Gaza. When the countries of the western world made a completely different response to a similar conflict in a different part of the world, one wonders how certain western "leaders" can justify ignoring or even supporting israel's crimes in Gaza. @thaibeachlovers What you fail to understand is that the responsibility referred to is not quite unconditional. Given Hamas being an elected leadership, and it assuming control of the Gaza Strip, plus it's obvious agenda and actions - there's less constraint on Israel. The blockade on the Gaza Strip was considered legit (given Israel's security concerns) by at least one UN inquiry committee. Also, while you focus on Israel, the same blockade is/was maintained by Egypt. Hamas doesn't have the right to rape, mutilate bodies, take hostages or kill Israelis. Guess you can't get your head over that. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Looks like the israeli government is expecting that expanded conflict that the US are trying to avoid. https://en.haberler.com/israel-orders-hospitals-to-get-ready-for-treating-1908123/ Israel's Health Ministry has ordered hospitals in the north of the country to prepare for the possibility of receiving thousands of injured people as tensions with the Lebanese Hezbollah group increase, a report said Tuesday. It's not going to end well for Israel, their mission is being watched by the wole world and only the US are now supporting them, which can only end up bad for them. Sanctions like travel bans for Israeli and US citizens could be on the cards. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 3 minutes ago, Neeranam said: It's not going to end well for Israel, their mission is being watched by the wole world and only the US are now supporting them, which can only end up bad for them. Sanctions like travel bans for Israeli and US citizens could be on the cards. You wish. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 8 minutes ago, Neeranam said: It's not going to end well for Israel, their mission is being watched by the wole world and only the US are now supporting them, which can only end up bad for them. Sanctions like travel bans for Israeli and US citizens could be on the cards. Its only on the cards in your imagination, the reality is quite different 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, Trippy said: You wish. I don't wish that, what makes you think that? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Neeranam said: I don't wish that, what makes you think that? Are you just trying to get a response from people by making extreme statements , i.e trolling ? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 12 minutes ago, Neeranam said: I don't wish that, what makes you think that? When someone makes bold predictions as you did, all they can do is wish they are right. Obviously no one knows the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 23 minutes ago, Neeranam said: I certainly don't, I am impartial. For committing crimes against humanity, there have to be consequences, whether you gree with them or not. Any country that has been the aggressor in war has committed crimes against humanity. So should there be consequences against them all? Maybe start with Italy (Romans) and then in chronological order move forward? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 The current war is the consequence of the Oct 7 th terror attack . The war crimes by Hamas on October 7 th need to addressed and the perpetrators need to be held accountable , which you yourself seem to be in agreement with 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: The current war is the consequence of the Oct 7 th terror attack . The war crimes by Hamas on October 7 th need to addressed and the perpetrators need to be held accountable , which you yourself seem to be in agreement with Beyond that Hamas (charter says Kill All Jews) is on record as intending to do further October 7 style attacks, again and again and again. Israel says NEVER AGAIN and what decent person can deny them that right? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trippy Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 29 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Conflicts in the Middle East, often involve multiple actors with diverse motivations. Labeling an entire country as an aggressor ignores the complexities of internal and external influences, making it inappropriate apply consequences without a careful examination of each case. Not all Gazans supported Hamas terror attacks, like not all Italians supported Mussolini. Romans had defensive wars, territorial expansion, and instances of egregious crimes against humanity. While Rome engaged in military campaigns, not all can be classified as aggression leading to crimes against humanity as shown by Israel at the moment. The context, motivations, and methods employed in each conflict should be scrutinized individually. My point is wars are messy, civilians get hurt, and even more so when your enemy refuses to wear a uniform. So maybe cut Israel a little slack as they are in a fight for their very existence, unlike Russia who just wants to expand. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, Trippy said: My point is wars are messy, civilians get hurt, and even more so when your enemy refuses to wear a uniform. So maybe cut Israel a little slack as they are in a fight for their very existence, unlike Russia who just wants to expand. If Palestinians had a sovereign state you might have a point. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ozimoron said: If Palestinians had a sovereign state you might have a point. I call BS. You're infantalizing the Gazan leadership. They are intentionally using human shields, they know the bad PR that causes for Israel, they have the choice whether to be in uniform or not, they have the money for an incredible tunnel system, but not uniforms, and not bomb shelters for civilians? Hamas chose this war. They got it. Edited January 11 by Jingthing 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Got to love 'impartial' posters rejecting generalizations when applied to the Palestinians, embracing them when referring to Israelis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 11 minutes ago, ozimoron said: If Palestinians had a sovereign state you might have a point. @ozimoron What does it have to do with having a 'sovereign state'? Wars and conflict aren't always between two sovereign states. Amusing you'd comment about 'might have a point, when you do not actually got one at all. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Trippy said: Any country that has been the aggressor in war has committed crimes against humanity. So should there be consequences against them all? Maybe start with Italy (Romans) and then in chronological order move forward? And which 2,000 year old Romans will you prosecute and punish first? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Jingthing said: I call BS. You're infantalizing the Gazan leadership. They are intentionally using human shields, they know the bad PR that causes for Israel, they have the choice whether to be in uniform or not, they have the money for an incredible tunnel system, but not uniforms, and not bomb shelters for civilians? Hamas chose this war. They got it. There weren't 15,000 human shields. Stop the unsubstantiated BS. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Jingthing said: Beyond that Hamas (charter says Kill All Jews) is on record as intending to do further October 7 style attacks, again and again and again. Israel says NEVER AGAIN and what decent person can deny them that right? ANY decent person can deny them that right. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas, let them, but don't slaughter innocent Palestinian women which is what Israel is doing every day, because NO country has the guts or the balls to stop them. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 It seems that some her believe that using human shields excuses killing those human shields. That's excusing war crimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, billd766 said: And which 2,000 year old Romans will you prosecute and punish first? @billd766 Why don't you read the post that was replied to for context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, ozimoron said: There weren't 15,000 human shields. Stop the unsubstantiated BS. @ozimoron I don't think anyone claimed all civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip were 'human shields'. That would be your own spin and BS. Some were, some death are what's known as 'collateral damage' or 'people die in wars'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 minutes ago, billd766 said: ANY decent person can deny them that right. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas, let them, but don't slaughter innocent Palestinian women which is what Israel is doing every day, because NO country has the guts or the balls to stop them. How do you know they're innocent, just because they're female? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 1 minute ago, Trippy said: How do you know they're innocent, just because they're female? They're described by Israel as being human shields - ergo, not combatants. Edited January 11 by ozimoron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, billd766 said: ANY decent person can deny them that right. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas, let them, but don't slaughter innocent Palestinian women which is what Israel is doing every day, because NO country has the guts or the balls to stop them. @billd766 You do not get to dictate who's 'decent' and who's not. And no, the right to defend oneself is not up for debate, other than in your mind. People die in wars, that's reality. That you think wars can be conducted without innocents being harmed is just another one of your contrived fantasies. Don't recall you having that many issues with Hamas slaughtering Israelis on 7/10 - you hardly even mention it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ozimoron said: It seems that some her believe that using human shields excuses killing those human shields. That's excusing war crimes. @ozimoron No, it's more like you don't want to understand the concept of using' human shields' and how it relates to international laws, war crimes and so on. You're just making up stuff about what posters believe and regarding facts. Edited January 11 by Morch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, ozimoron said: They're described by Israel of being human shields - ergo, not combatants. Not necessarily, they can still help hamas without having a gun in their hand, ergo not innocent. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, Trippy said: How do you know they're innocent, just because they're female? How do you know that they are not innocent? If you see a dead Palestinian woman and a child, do you automatically assume that they were Hamas, even though there are no weapons around? Especially around an apartment block destroyed by Israeli bombs or shells. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trippy Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 16 minutes ago, billd766 said: How do you know that they are not innocent? If you see a dead Palestinian woman and a child, do you automatically assume that they were Hamas, even though there are no weapons around? Especially around an apartment block destroyed by Israeli bombs or shells. Yes I do, next question? I should add that if I ever hear just one Palestinian say Israel has a right to exist, I might change my mind. Edited January 11 by Trippy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jingthing Posted January 11 Popular Post Share Posted January 11 39 minutes ago, billd766 said: ANY decent person can deny them that right. If Israel wants to destroy Hamas, let them, but don't slaughter innocent Palestinian women which is what Israel is doing every day, because NO country has the guts or the balls to stop them. It's war. Not a tea party. The target is not innocent civilians. The target is Hamas. Maybe look at Hamas to blame as they freakin' STARTED IT. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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