The Problem With EVs

[alien365]

48 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Let us know where that is.  As a Yank, it's not the USA.  I actually have more 'freedoms' here/TH, than I did in USA.

 

Democracy ... 

That's an illusion 

Trump got voted into power through democracy. He got kicked out through democracy. The UK left the EU due to democracy. Democracy sometimes goes the way that we want or against. Im not sure if I have more freedoms here (a democratic country) than the UK, but either way, we are not living in China. 

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, alien365 said:

Trump got voted into power through democracy. He got kicked out through democracy. The UK left the EU due to democracy. Democracy sometimes goes the way that we want or against. Im not sure if I have more freedoms here (a democratic country) than the UK, but either way, we are not living in China. 

If not for the air pollution, I wish I was able to live in CH.

 

Believe what you want, but democracy is a farce, in most, if not all so called democratic countries...IMHO

 

And Unions are a joke, and a business only to themselves.  I've been a union rep, and sold out by the unions.   All they care about is themselves & dues.   

 

Anyone depending on employers, unions, government for their future financial security, are about as ignorant and or brainwashed as can be.

 

If you can't personally negotiate your own salary or contract, then being an 'employee' is a losing game.

 

 

 

 

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Lee65 said:

 

<Flame removed by moderator>

 

 

To be fair most of the people posting against EVs do not own one and have not even tried one. BD does own them, posts about them, knows about them. I think it's fair to say he speaks from personal experience and knowledge, and yes, he does know more than most (myself definitely included). On any subject we generally listen to people with first hand knowledge or experience, on EVs people tend to shut them out as they are not interesting in hearing the "other side".

If an anti EV poster would care to take one for a test drive and then come back and post their findings I would be impressed. But instead they just make up stupid stuff to justify their blind hatred.

 

I have said it before but I consider myself a "petrol head". Always been in to cars, engines, noises. I spent a lot of money modding a Subaru Impreza to 500+ bhp and it was the loudest thing ever and I loved it, I loved everything about it, especially the noise it made (burbling flat four, turbo waste gate, blow off valve whooshing). I never thought I would like an EV: soulless, no character, "washing machine", impractical etc. That is until I tried one. Absolutely not impractical (for my needs), the infrastructure in Thailand is impressive, and the experience of driving is fantastic. You don't miss the noise, you become addicted to the instant performance and the peace and quiet. My current car is a 260bhp turbo that is refined and does 0-60mph in 6.2 seconds. Pretty nippy by most standards. But getting back in to it after three days with an EV it felt like I was going back a few decades: it felt sluggish, noisy, unrefined, and old fashioned.  Guess what, I approached EVs with an open (albeit skeptical) mine, and I totally changed my outlook.

 

Not speaking for BD but I am sure he finds it frustrating that people with closed minds keep posting false information so he corrects them. I say try an EV, go for a test drive, get in it with an open mind, then if you still don't like it come back here and post your reasons - neither BD nor anyone would have any issue with that. A good open minded debate is very welcome and anyone who can engage in one will be respected.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Lee65 said:

 

 

<Flame removed by moderator>

 

Nobody has to call most of the anti EV'ers postings an idiot.  They state that themselves by what they post.  IMHO

 

Only a handful actually engage in educated, informed discussion.  

 

Why people that don't own, don't intend to own, even bother on the EV threads is a bit telling why they are there, and why most go to my ignore list.   Only see their posts (inclusive) when quoted.

 

Half my ignore list is probably anti EV/CH folks, rest are, and some of the same, TH/USA/gay bashers, along with solar not a feasible alternative to the grid.   Ignorance or bigotry I simply don't need to read.

 

Have a Nice Day 

[Lee65]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Nobody has to call most of the anti EV'ers postings an idiot.  They state that themselves by what they post.  IMHO

 

Only a handful actually engage in educated, informed discussion.  

 

Why people that don't own, don't intend to own, even bother on the EV threads is a bit telling why they are there, and why most go to my ignore list.   Only see their posts (inclusive) when quoted.

 

Half my ignore list is probably anti EV/CH folks, rest are, and some of the same, TH/USA/gay bashers, along with solar not a feasible alternative to the grid.   Ignorance or bigotry I simply don't need to read.

 

Have a Nice Day 

 

There's you bragging about your huge Ignore List again!

 

Seriously though, it's not really the obvious downside issues vis-à-vis EVs that interests most.  It's the mentality of Early Adopters - a strange bunch to many of us who aren't in that group.  You have the blinders of the religious, and a sad, grasping, desperation to believe.

 

This necessitates your efforts to block out competing information.  A common tactic is to insult non-believers.  Non-believers must be idiots, so we're safe ignoring them.  Seems the level of vitriol is commensurate with the threat level perceived by the believer.

 

Go ahead Early Adopters: be the guinea pigs for the rest of us.  Don't be surprised to learn we're not all looking on in admiration.

 

  

[HighPriority]

5 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

 

There's you bragging about your huge Ignore List again!

 

Seriously though, it's not really the obvious downside issues vis-à-vis EVs that interests most.  It's the mentality of Early Adopters - a strange bunch to many of us who aren't in that group.  You have the blinders of the religious, and a sad, grasping, desperation to believe.

 

This necessitates your efforts to block out competing information.  A common tactic is to insult non-believers.  Non-believers must be idiots, so we're safe ignoring them.  Seems the level of vitriol is commensurate with the threat level perceived by the believer.

 

Go ahead Early Adopters: be the guinea pigs for the rest of us.  Don't be surprised to learn we're not all looking on in admiration.

 

  

Do you go to your local church to tell them they’re all wrong ?

Communist countries ?

Democratic countries ?

How about congregations of left handed people ? 
 

Let the early adopters be, I say

 

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, alien365 said:

Which is what I said in my original post (relating to the recent bill signed in the US to help combat this). I won't be buying another car for about 10 years now as I bought a pick up last year (I needed something I can put some weight in the back), but the next will be an EV or whatever the technology dictates at the time.

My home country (the UK) doesn't have a car industry anymore, but I'd rather support industry in a democratic country that pays it's staff proper wages, workers have rights and speech is not aggressively suppressed. China's recent takeover of Hong Kong, eagerness to control Taiwan,  along with their aggressive stance in the South China Sea doesn't sit right with me. Still people like @JBChiangRai assume they know how I form my opinion and label it nonsense and @Gweiloman jumps to racism and protectionism. You can support the overreliance on China if you like, but I'd rather reduce, not eliminate, mine. 

Takeover of HKG? You do know that it’s the British who forcefully took HKG from China, a 99 year lease. HKG was handed back to China in 1997, much to the joy of many Hong Kongers, I was working there during the handover.

 

China does not want to control Taiwan, it just doesn’t want Taiwan to be a vassal state of the US who would most certainly build military bases there in an effort to further contain China and to prevent China from overtaking the US economically (which will inevitably happen in spite of US’ efforts).

 

Hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty, not in the West but in China. The biggest middle class is now in China. I suggest that Chinese citizens are paid a proper wage for their labours. I pity the poor folks in the West who, while having reducing standards of living, are being forced to pay more for their goods due to tariffs and sanctions which actually hurts them more than those being sanctioned. And the recent move by the EU to investigate “unfair “ subsidies of Chinese made EVs is no more than protectionism.

[Jai Dee]

A couple of personal attacks (flames) have been removed as they contravene our Community Standards.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Lee65 said:

 

There's you bragging about your huge Ignore List again!

 

Seriously though, it's not really the obvious downside issues vis-à-vis EVs that interests most.  It's the mentality of Early Adopters - a strange bunch to many of us who aren't in that group.  You have the blinders of the religious, and a sad, grasping, desperation to believe.

 

This necessitates your efforts to block out competing information.  A common tactic is to insult non-believers.  Non-believers must be idiots, so we're safe ignoring them.  Seems the level of vitriol is commensurate with the threat level perceived by the believer.

 

Go ahead Early Adopters: be the guinea pigs for the rest of us.  Don't be surprised to learn we're not all looking on in admiration.

 

  

I don’t see any EV owners on this forum telling everyone that they should buy an EV. I only ever hear them (myself included) talk about the pros of driving an EV while at the same time acknowledging the downsides. Fortunately, a lot of these cons don’t impact us much as our situation is such that we are able to mitigate them easily.

 

A lot of anti-EV posters however go through much pain to rubbish EVs including inventing situations that are less likely than striking first price in the lottery. 

[alien365]

16 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Takeover of HKG? You do know that it’s the British who forcefully took HKG from China, a 99 year lease. HKG was handed back to China in 1997, much to the joy of many Hong Kongers, I was working there during the handover.

 

China does not want to control Taiwan, it just doesn’t want Taiwan to be a vassal state of the US who would most certainly build military bases there in an effort to further contain China and to prevent China from overtaking the US economically (which will inevitably happen in spite of US’ efforts).

 

Hundreds of millions have been lifted out of poverty, not in the West but in China. The biggest middle class is now in China. I suggest that Chinese citizens are paid a proper wage for their labours. I pity the poor folks in the West who, while having reducing standards of living, are being forced to pay more for their goods due to tariffs and sanctions which actually hurts them more than those being sanctioned. And the recent move by the EU to investigate “unfair “ subsidies of Chinese made EVs is no more than protectionism.

I was expecting you to respond with your username. You can keep believing that China is whiter than white. 

[Gweiloman]

24 minutes ago, alien365 said:

I was expecting you to respond with your username. You can keep believing that China is whiter than white. 

China is far from perfect. But at least they don’t go round bombing those who have different values and beliefs.

[Lee65]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:48 PM, Gweiloman said:

A lot of anti-EV posters however go through much pain to rubbish EVs including inventing situations that are less likely than striking first price in the lottery. 

 

No pain required to rubbish EVs.  Thousands of actual, real-life EV problems at your fingertips on the internet - including serious problems after slightly damaging the battery pack.

[Lee65]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:49 PM, HighPriority said:

Do you go to your local church to tell them they’re all wrong ?

Communist countries ?

Democratic countries ?

How about congregations of left handed people ? 
 

Let the early adopters be, I say

 

 

I actually like this post.  Would have been happy to let the EV-believers be ... until they began insulting the non-believers and arrogantly dismissing their comments.

[In the jungle]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:25 PM, Gweiloman said:

China is far from perfect. But at least they don’t go round bombing those who have different values and beliefs.

 

They have put a huge number of Muslims in concentration camps.  Other muslims endure slave labour and forced sterilisation.

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, In the jungle said:

 

They have put a huge number of Muslims in concentration camps.  Other muslims endure slave labour and forced sterilisation.

Yes, and the 2020 US Presidential elections were rigged and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and Russia blew up the NordStream pipelines 

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Lee65 said:

 

No pain required to rubbish EVs.  Thousands of actual, real-life EV problems at your fingertips on the internet - including serious problems after slightly damaging the battery pack.

Yes. Good thing that ICEVs are problem free and that service centres are just a front for money laundering.

[Lacessit]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:20 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

I wonder how many of our EV owners suffer range anxiety?  I certainly don't.

 

Incidentally, nobody is going to install a fast charger where there is no mobile phone signal, they communicate to their servers over a mobile signal.

 

I wonder what EV experience you have that makes you find range anxiety is real and completely justified?

Could someone please explain why a mobile phone signal is necessary to enable recharging of an EV, I don't understand. In fact, when refueling with gasoline, there are signs asking for mobiles to be switched off.

Is there some reason why a debit/credit card cannot be used to pay for a recharge?

[BritManToo]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:20 AM, JBChiangRai said:

wonder what EV experience you have that makes you find range anxiety is real and completely justified?

Nissan leaf 1 only has a range of 60 miles. After 8-10 years that's down to 20!

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Could someone please explain why a mobile phone signal is necessary to enable recharging of an EV, I don't understand. In fact, when refueling with gasoline, there are signs asking for mobiles to be switched off.

Is there some reason why a debit/credit card cannot be used to pay for a recharge?

When I looked they all operate through an app on your phone. You scan a QR on the charging station then follow the instructions - payment is done through the preferred payment option you've set up in the app.

Could be different now but that's how it was many months ago when I used a charging station.

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Could someone please explain why a mobile phone signal is necessary to enable recharging of an EV, I don't understand. In fact, when refueling with gasoline, there are signs asking for mobiles to be switched off.

Is there some reason why a debit/credit card cannot be used to pay for a recharge?

You can’t authorise a debit card without a connection to the bank, this is done with a mobile signal. Likewise, the charger has to connect to its network to see whether you have any credit on your account with them, and also to keep statistics of charging sessions

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nissan leaf 1 only has a range of 60 miles. After 8-10 years that's down to 20!

Nissan thought they could air cool the batteries, they have premature battery aging and realised their mistake.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

When I looked they all operate through an app on your phone. You scan a QR on the charging station then follow the instructions - payment is done through the preferred payment option you've set up in the app.

Could be different now but that's how it was many months ago when I used a charging station.

So if you are out in the boonies with no mobile signal and no recharging station, you can't get going again without a tow truck, and there's no such thing as a jerrycan full of electrons you can cadge from a passing EV.

 

I read some time ago 25% of recharging stations on the West Coast of America are broken down, which is not encouraging. I doubt that many gasoline/diesel pumps are in the same boat.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nissan thought they could air cool the batteries, they have premature battery aging and realised their mistake.

You mean EV's have liquid radiators, just like ICE's?

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You mean EV's have liquid radiators, just like ICE's?

They have liquid cooling, I can’t say about radiators, maybe they do.

 

I think the air conditioning unit is also used to cool the battery pack.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You can’t authorise a debit card without a connection to the bank, this is done with a mobile signal. Likewise, the charger has to connect to its network to see whether you have any credit on your account with them, and also to keep statistics of charging sessions

I usually pay for my gasoline with cash.

So if there is a service provider outage, EV owners are basically screwed?

 

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

So if you are out in the boonies with no mobile signal and no recharging station, you can't get going again without a tow truck, and there's no such thing as a jerrycan full of electrons you can cadge from a passing EV.

 

I read some time ago 25% of recharging stations on the West Coast of America are broken down, which is not encouraging. I doubt that many gasoline/diesel pumps are in the same boat.

 

1. How extremely isolated do you have to be to have no mobile signal? I don't remember the last time I've not been able to get a signal.

2. If this extremely isolated place is on your journey you're not going to drive there with an empty battery, just as you wouldn't drive in to an extremely isolated place with an empty tank of petrol either. That would be extremely stupid in both cases.

3. Why would they put a charging station (or a petrol station) somewhere that is so extremely isolated that it doesn't have a mobile signal? There would be no passing traffic so no business case to have either a CS or a petrol station.

4. It really is a stupid argument.

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

So if you are out in the boonies with no mobile signal and no recharging station, you can't get going again without a tow truck, and there's no such thing as a jerrycan full of electrons you can cadge from a passing EV.

 

I read some time ago 25% of recharging stations on the West Coast of America are broken down, which is not encouraging. I doubt that many gasoline/diesel pumps are in the same boat.

You won’t find a charging station installed where there is no signal available. But bear in mind you can take a mobile signal 40km away with a cheap WiFi bridge setup.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

They have liquid cooling, I can’t say about radiators, maybe they do.

 

I think the air conditioning unit is also used to cool the battery pack.

This is a BYD Atto 3 battery pack, all tightly packed leaf cells, no gaps, no cooling.

Edited December 21, 2023 by BritManToo

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

 

1. How extremely isolated do you have to be to have no mobile signal? I don't remember the last time I've not been able to get a signal.

2. If this extremely isolated place is on your journey you're not going to drive there with an empty battery, just as you wouldn't drive in to an extremely isolated place with an empty tank of petrol either. That would be extremely stupid in both cases.

3. Why would they put a charging station (or a petrol station) somewhere that is so extremely isolated that it doesn't have a mobile signal? There would be no passing traffic so no business case to have either a CS or a petrol station.

4. It really is a stupid argument.

IIRC it was Mike Tyson who said everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth.

One can't plan for an unexpected detour when a road is closed by flooding, landslip, or a major accident.

IME there are quite a few spots up in the mountains around Chiang Rai where there is no mobile signal.

IMO it's a dumb poster who would discount the possibility of either event.

 

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You won’t find a charging station installed where there is no signal available. But bear in mind you can take a mobile signal 40km away with a cheap WiFi bridge setup.

As I would not know how to do that, the advice is not much help to me.