The Children of Gaza = More than 7000 Killed.

[Hawaiian]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They do.

After the way they have been behaving and posting vdos themselves of their vile behaviour, no one else does.

https://www.jns.org/the-idf-is-the-most-moral-army-in-history/

The IDF is the most moral army in history 

Unfortunately, the IDF is up against an enemy that continues to hide behind civilians and uses fortifications purposely built for this VILE tactic.  Sometimes videos are used to document what battle conditions are like, but should not be used solely for bragging rights.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, ezzra said:

What i find disturbing is that there are at least half a dozen of trouble spots around the world where war is raging and

millions are displaced, hungry and diseased with tens of thousands of dead, (including many children) but nothing of that

is of concern to those who howl and stand on hind legs vilify and accuse Israel of genocide, holocaust and war crimes

in Gaza, all because the above trouble places there are no Jews to blame, the world's favourite scapegoat...

In Sudan the conflict is between 2 roughly similar combatants, and the death toll since April is 12,000. Sudanese civilians have the ability to become refugees in neighbouring countries.

In Gaza, the israelis have killed 20,000 since October 7, and the Gazans have zero ability to defend themselves from the air assault.

 

If you want to know why people are more upset by Gaza than Sudan, it's because there is no proportionality, and it's just massacre of a defenseless population. Gazans are not allowed to go elsewhere as refugees and are being killed as there are no safe areas to stay in.

 

I hope you are not trying to say that israel is not committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, as it's all recorded, and overwhelming world opinion is that israel is committing those crimes.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does the spokesman keep a straight face when saying that?

They never say what the feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm are, presumably because they don't.

Sounds just like every American official apologist for israeli bad behaviour.

Nothing would be good enough for the River to the Sea Israel demonizers short of Israel doing nothing and inviting Hamas to fullfill their charter (kill all the Jews). 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, ezzra said:

What i find disturbing is that there are at least half a dozen of trouble spots around the world where war is raging and

millions are displaced, hungry and diseased with tens of thousands of dead, (including many children) but nothing of that

is of concern to those who howl and stand on hind legs vilify and accuse Israel of genocide, holocaust and war crimes

in Gaza, all because the above trouble places there are no Jews to blame, the world's favourite scapegoat...

If israelis don't want to be villified, they should not have blown over 7,000 children to bits with big bombs from safety high in the sky.

It's a bit late now to be complaining that the world is being unfair to those lovely peaceful israelis.

The saying about making beds and having to lie in them is appropriate.

[ezzra]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In Sudan the conflict is between 2 roughly similar combatants, and the death toll since April is 12,000. Sudanese civilians have the ability to become refugees in neighbouring countries.

In Gaza, the israelis have killed 20,000 since October 7, and the Gazans have zero ability to defend themselves from the air assault.

 

If you want to know why people are more upset by Gaza than Sudan, it's because there is no proportionality, and it's just massacre of a defenseless population. Gazans are not allowed to go elsewhere as refugees and are being killed as there are no safe areas to stay in.

 

I hope you are not trying to say that israel is not committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, as it's all recorded, and overwhelming world opinion is that israel is committing those crimes.

One man war crimes is another a fight for survival and for their country, was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field? and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers or it's just to win your argument? and YES, many more Hamas and Palestinians will die in the coming weeks and months until they and the world will realise that they can't win, blame countries like Iran, Qatar and others for fuelling and financing Hamas and Hezbollah because this suits their agendas... 

Edited December 22, 2023 by ezzra

[Hawaiian]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In Sudan the conflict is between 2 roughly similar combatants, and the death toll since April is 12,000. Sudanese civilians have the ability to become refugees in neighbouring countries.

In Gaza, the israelis have killed 20,000 since October 7, and the Gazans have zero ability to defend themselves from the air assault.

 

If you want to know why people are more upset by Gaza than Sudan, it's because there is no proportionality, and it's just massacre of a defenseless population. Gazans are not allowed to go elsewhere as refugees and are being killed as there are no safe areas to stay in.

 

I hope you are not trying to say that israel is not committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, as it's all recorded, and overwhelming world opinion is that israel is committing those crimes.

Agree, having no place to hide or escape to describes a horrible situation in Gaza.  Both Israel and Hamas are responsible.  But how do you justify putting all the blame on Israel for the massive casualties.  You like to compare this to similar situations elsewhere.  The population density is mostly the reason for the high rate.  Even when Israel asked for evacuations to the South. Hamas attempted to stop it.  Hamas operatives were caught red handed stealing humanitarian aid intended for the civilian population.  You never mentioned the videos of that.  If one side surrenders and hostilities stop, the killing stops.  Anyone who intentionally breaks a ceasefire cannot be trusted.  As Hamas is intent of fighting to the end, Israel is just as determined to finish the job.

Israel will be vilified no matter what they do.  At the end of the day Hamas will be destroyed and all of Gaza will be better off.  Then begins the task of rehabilitation and rebuilding.  Hopefully, people in the West Bank will also benefit from the destruction of Hamas. 

Yes Israel will a black eye, but Iran will have two black eyes

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field? and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake? and YES, many more Hamas and Palestinians will die in the coming weeks and months until they will

realise that they can't win, blame countries like Iran, Qatar and others for fuelling and financing Hamas and Hezbollah

because this suits their agendas... 

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

[Wobblybob]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If israelis don't want to be villified, they should not have blown over 7,000 children to bits with big bombs from safety high in the sky.

It's a bit late now to be complaining that the world is being unfair to those lovely peaceful israelis.

The saying about making beds and having to lie in them is appropriate.

How many of these children (figures from the terrorists themselves) were armed with AK47s at the time. Gullible much?

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

 

Hamas apologist

[ezzra]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

Sir, your bias, hypocrite and antisemitism tendencies are is showing and you're not even trying to hide them...

When the Hamas blowing billions in donation monies in arming themselves and digging tunnels while

their people living in poor squalid conditions and hunger you should ask yourself: what is Hamas good for?

thier leadership are multi millionaires living in 5 stars hotels while their people are dying like rats...

Edited December 23, 2023 by ezzra

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

You forgot to deduct your mates who got killed, over 8,000 Hamas terrorists to be taken from that 20,000 figure, then of course you are still believing fatality figures published by Hamas. 

[Hawaiian]

13 minutes ago, ezzra said:

One man war crimes is another a fight for survival and for their country, was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field? and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers or it's just to win your argument? and YES, many more Hamas and Palestinians will die in the coming weeks and months until they and the world will realise that they can't win, blame countries like Iran, Qatar and others for fuelling and financing Hamas and Hezbollah because this suits their agendas... 

The

 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

Providing links with a paywall is against forum rules. 

Because many Hamas fighters do not wear uniforms it is almost impossible to distinguish civilian from military casualties.

[Hawaiian]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

Giving Nostradamus competition, I see.

[Morch]

@spidermike007

 

You've copy pasted the same three times now.

 

Here the copy pasted response to your copy pasted post:

 

It's been a long while since the NYT could have been labeled as 'supportive of Israel'. Painting it this way is intentionally misleading.

 

Same goes for 'brutality against women and children', leaving out all them Hamas men out of the picture.

 

Hamas fans/Israel haters here seem very excited about the NYT story (I think like 6-8 references since last evening). So for starters, these were supplied by the USA, even as this current conflict was unfolding and going on - so was the USA supplying them with some caveat about them not being used? Was there any USA action to stop Israel from using them? I don't think so (with regard to both counts). And 200 craters - that sounds like a lot, unless, of course one recalls the total number of bombs and munitions used (making the figure more like 1% of the total, if that). As far as I'm aware, there is no analysis of how many casualties these specific bombings actually caused.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

No, Hamas would have faded away had Israel negotiated in good faith with the PA. Netanyahu was instrumental in facilitating financing Hamas by Qatar

 

@ozimoron

 

That Hamas would have 'faded away' is your opinion. It is not based on knowledge, analysis or anything much.

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

You're describing a time and circumstances where they were a domestic nationalist, religious and political organization. Hamas has really only become powerful since Netanyahu appeared on the scene, It should also be noted that Iran and Hezbollah are not exactly close to Hamas since Hamas is Sunni. Hamas really relied on the funding and support from Qatar and Israel.

 

@ozimoron

 

More like your contrived fantasies, again.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Two senior European Union officials said Friday that they are “deeply shocked” at an assessment that the entire population of Gaza is at risk of acute food insecurity because of the Israeli offensive there.

 

“This is a grave development and should be a wake-up call for the whole world to act now to prevent a deadly human catastrophe,” EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell and Crisis Management Commissioner Janez Lenarcic said in a statement.

 

“We urgently need continued, rapid, safe and unhindered humanitarian access to avoid a further worsening of an already catastrophic situation,” they said.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-live-updates-c83889b311f05fc76184b0ab95da7b60

 

@ozimoron

 

'Deeply shocked'? Were they not aware of things? Is this the first time they review things in the Gaza Strip (before the war and currently)?

Just a load of politician babble.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Wow, it's coming out now. 

 

 

Nothing it 'coming out now'. Most of it was known for years.

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If israelis don't want to be villified, they should not have blown over 7,000 children to bits with big bombs from safety high in the sky.

It's a bit late now to be complaining that the world is being unfair to those lovely peaceful israelis.

The saying about making beds and having to lie in them is appropriate.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Interesting, because you seem to have forgotten about Hamas's sins, lumping them together with civilians as 'the Palestinians'.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In Sudan the conflict is between 2 roughly similar combatants, and the death toll since April is 12,000. Sudanese civilians have the ability to become refugees in neighbouring countries.

In Gaza, the israelis have killed 20,000 since October 7, and the Gazans have zero ability to defend themselves from the air assault.

 

If you want to know why people are more upset by Gaza than Sudan, it's because there is no proportionality, and it's just massacre of a defenseless population. Gazans are not allowed to go elsewhere as refugees and are being killed as there are no safe areas to stay in.

 

I hope you are not trying to say that israel is not committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, as it's all recorded, and overwhelming world opinion is that israel is committing those crimes.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

The Gazans would not have to defend themselves had Hamas refrained from starting this war.

 

As for Hamas not defending them - either through sharing the safety of its vast tunnel system, or not investing in defensive measures - take it up with Hamas leadership.

 

Gazans not allowed to go anywhere would be an issue for Egypt, and possibly other Arab countries - something which I doubt you're not aware of.

 

I hope that you don't think your opinion of what constitute war crimes (let alone crimes against humanity) is taken seriously.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

Agree, having no place to hide or escape to describes a horrible situation in Gaza.  Both Israel and Hamas are responsible.  But how do you justify putting all the blame on Israel for the massive casualties.  You like to compare this to similar situations elsewhere.  The population density is mostly the reason for the high rate.  Even when Israel asked for evacuations to the South. Hamas attempted to stop it.  Hamas operatives were caught red handed stealing humanitarian aid intended for the civilian population.  You never mentioned the videos of that.  If one side surrenders and hostilities stop, the killing stops.  Anyone who intentionally breaks a ceasefire cannot be trusted.  As Hamas is intent of fighting to the end, Israel is just as determined to finish the job.

Israel will be vilified no matter what they do.  At the end of the day Hamas will be destroyed and all of Gaza will be better off.  Then begins the task of rehabilitation and rebuilding.  Hopefully, people in the West Bank will also benefit from the destruction of Hamas. 

Yes Israel will a black eye, but Iran will have two black eyes

 

No place to hide, how? There are miles upon miles of underground tunnels and facilities in the Gaza Strip. There's a border pass with Egypt.

[Hawaiian]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No place to hide, how? There are miles upon miles of underground tunnels and facilities in the Gaza Strip. There's a border pass with Egypt.

As recent videos show, the tunnels are death traps and Hamas has not allowed civilians to take refuge there.  From what I understand, the border route is being blocked by Egypt and Israel is reluctant to pressure Egypt fearing it would damage their relationship.  Both Egypt and Israel are caught between a rock and a hard place.  Sorry, I should have clarified my position about who is responsible for this mess.  I am tired of the blame game because it solves nothing and you are smart enough to know that.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

As recent videos show, the tunnels are death traps and Hamas has not allowed civilians to take refuge there.  From what I understand, the border route is being blocked by Egypt and Israel is reluctant to pressure Egypt fearing it would damage their relationship.  Both Egypt and Israel are caught between a rock and a hard place.  Sorry, I should have clarified my position about who is responsible for this mess.  I am tired of the blame game because it solves nothing and you are smart enough to know that.

 

If the tunnels were death traps, Hamas casualties would be higher.

Regardless, if they had opened them to the general public, Israel would not have the same freedom attacking them.

Maybe a miscalculation on their parts, or maybe they see the civilian death toll as more beneficial for the 'cause'.

 

Israel did pressure Egypt to take in refugees, but was rebuffed. The point being that this part is Egypt's choice, not Israel's.

Obviously, this could have been done years ago, as well.

 

My issue is less with your post, and more with @thaibeachlovers constant nonsense.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where did you get the 20,000 figure or you're using inflated numbers

for your argument sake?

 

Seriously? Do you only listen to israeli news?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, a historic human toll

 

Also from Reuters and the BBC and many other news sources.

 

 

Was there a " proportionality" when a hundreds of Hamas and Palestinians murderess and rapists descended on a sleepy villages and a group of Israelis who were at a festival in the field?

 

I'll see your October 7 and raise you with 30 years and more of illegal occupation, land theft, collective punishment and oppression.

The Israeli state killed many more innocent people than the 7 Oct killings of 1,100, which wa a direct result of the deaths of many more Palestinians.

 

This Genocide has been going on longer than 2 months.

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

Edited December 23, 2023 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

The Slaughter did not start on Oct 7.

[Hawaiian]

Just now, Morch said:

 

If the tunnels were death traps, Hamas casualties would be higher.

Regardless, if they had opened them to the general public, Israel would not have the same freedom attacking them.

Maybe a miscalculation on their parts, or maybe they see the civilian death toll as more beneficial for the 'cause'.

 

Israel did pressure Egypt to take in refugees, but was rebuffed. The point being that this part is Egypt's choice, not Israel's.

Obviously, this could have been done years ago, as well.

 

My issue is less with your post, and more with @thaibeachlovers constant nonsense.

Whenever I look for information online I first check to see how current it is.  The situation has been evolving so rapidly it is easy to be misled or misinformed.  In the case of the Gaza/Egypt border I missed the part of Israel being rebuffed.

As for the safety of the tunnels I am basing my assessment on the Israeli attempt to flood them with seawater.  There is also the intent of the IDF to destroy all of the tunnels.  This is a very complicated war and I along with others have difficulty in keeping up.  My reason for posting is not to only express my opinions, but also to learn from others.

[Hawaiian]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Israeli state killed many more innocent people than the 7 Oct killings of 1,100, which wa a direct result of the deaths of many more Palestinians.

 

This Genocide has been going on longer than 2 months.

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

When are you going to understand the legal definition of genocide.  Myself and others have posted info here before.  Just because the media misuses the word doesn't make it so.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Whenever I look for information online I first check to see how current it is.  The situation has been evolving so rapidly it is easy to be misled or misinformed.  In the case of the Gaza/Egypt border I missed the part of Israel being rebuffed.

As for the safety of the tunnels I am basing my assessment on the Israeli attempt to flood them with seawater.  There is also the intent of the IDF to destroy all of the tunnels.  This is a very complicated war and I along with others have difficulty in keeping up.  My reason for posting is not to only express my opinions, but also to learn from others.

 

The flooding with sea water thing made some headlines and then sort of dissipated. I guess it was not quite as feasible, or timely a solution.

But regardless of that and the bombing campaign - the reason Israel bombs the tunnels freely is because they are not hosting civilians.

 

So it comes down to Hamas choices of which path to choose.

I think that for Hamas, there's greater value is casualties, seeing as the tunnels could be rehabilitated with future aid money.

[Hawaiian]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Israeli state killed many more innocent people than the 7 Oct killings of 1,100, which wa a direct result of the deaths of many more Palestinians.

 

This Genocide has been going on longer than 2 months.

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

So Israel killed more Palestinians than Hamas killed Israelis on Oct. 7.  Entirely different circumstances and time frame.  Do you ever read what you post?

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

When are you going to understand the legal definition of genocide.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against

UN experts call on international community to prevent genocide against the Palestinian people