Hostages were carrying white cloth when shot, IDF says

[Morch]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some here deny that israel is committing  crimes against Humanity when it's obvious that they do. 7,000 dead children is obviously a war crime, yet some try to excuse it- sad that some are so blinded by hate of Palestinians that any amount of dead children is OK as long as no israeli children among them.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

You tossing 'war crimes' and 'crimes against humanity' means very little. You have not displayed much evidence that you actually understand what they are, and how these matters are decided. You also regularly overlook actual instances of these perpetrated by Hamas. Talk about 'blind hate'....

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I certainly do not think they take any measures to avoid harming non combatants, or 7,000 children wouldn't be dead.

 

It is a long time since they had an actual enemy army to fight, and I know how a military without a real war slowly deteriorates to incompetence, having experienced that myself after Vietnam finished.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

There this ratio of bombs/munitions per casualty. Figures provided by both sides indicate it's pretty low, some counts indicate almost 1:1. That would not happen if there was total disregard for human lives, as you claim. Israel could easily flatten the Gaza Strip in a much shorter time than this war is on - at the price of many more casualties.

[Rimmer]

A couple of baiting personal attacks and reply removed

[Nick Carter icp]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I certainly do not think they take any measures to avoid harming non combatants, or 7,000 children wouldn't be dead.

 

 

 

   Dropping leaflets telling civilians to leave the area is a measure taken to stop non combatants from getting harmed 

[sirineou]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Dropping leaflets telling civilians to leave the area is a measure taken to stop non combatants from getting harmed 

Yea why don't they take a vacation in the caribbean and come back when this thing is over.

Stupid Palestinians.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Yea why don't they take a vacation in the caribbean and come back when this thing is over.

Stupid Palestinians.

 

   They are asked to move to the areas of Gaza that aren't being targeted by the IDF , safer areas

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They are asked to move to the areas of Gaza that aren't being targeted by the IDF , safer areas

Ohh

Ok

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They are asked to move to the areas of Gaza that aren't being targeted by the IDF , safer areas

Should they be holding white flags while this children are moving to "safer areas" ?

 

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Ohh

Ok

555, you have more patience than I! 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Should they be holding white flags while this children are moving to "safer areas" ?

 

 

   Not necessarily, Israel gave them a safe passage and directions and the time to go and Israeli stopped firing allowing them safe passage . Gave them maps and directions 

  Don't you watch the news ?

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Should they be holding white flags while this children are moving to "safer areas" ?

 

Israel have absolutely no right to tell the Gazan people to move! 

They break international laws all the time.

[Wobblybob]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Israel have absolutely no right to tell the Gazan people to move! 

They break international laws all the time.

You couldn't be more wrong, Israel is doing the decent thing by warning the Palestinians of where they intend to destroy the terrorists, the Palestinians did not afford that luxury to the Israelis when they sadistically attacked on 7/11.

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Israel have absolutely no right to tell the Gazan people to move! 

They break international laws all the time.

 

   Hamas SHOULD be telling Palestinian citizens  to move , Hamas SHOULD by trying to protect civilians

Israel is trying to fight Hamas and also to protect Palestinian civilian's as well  

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Refreshing to hear honesty for once.

Of course militants who have suffered and worked with Israelis under occupation for generations can falsely shout Help in Hebrew. Same for the extreme measures the  IDF takes to avid targeting hospitals, ambulances, women in hijabs and  so-called "children".

BUT they were NOT militants at all, They were in fact 3 oe the Israeli hostages that they IDF were searching for. 

 

They were unarmed, shirtless and waving white flags.

 

What makes it worse is that 2 were killed outright before the ceasefire was ordered. The 3rd man was wounded and went back to the relative safety of the building and came out again unarmed, shirtless and waving a white flag.

 

He was still shot and killed.

 

So in fact 3 unarmed civilians were murdered by their own side.

 

Of course if you think that killing unarmed civilians trying to surrender is OK, please feel free to give your version of what happened.

[Nick Carter icp]

8 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Refreshing to hear honesty for once.

Of course militants who have suffered and worked with Israelis under occupation for generations can falsely shout Help in Hebrew. Same for the extreme measures the  IDF takes to avid targeting hospitals, ambulances, women in hijabs and  so-called "children".

 

   Quite a lot of Gazians do speak Hebrew . 

I was talking to a Palestinian terrorist and he could speak Hebrew 

I pretended not to understand him , because he would have killed me 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

Should they be holding white flags while this children are moving to "safer areas" ?

 

 

Only if they want to troll.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

Should they be holding white flags while this children are moving to "safer areas" ?

 

 

They'd be safer with targets painted on their foreheads. More fun for the kids too.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

BUT they were NOT militants at all, They were in fact 3 oe the Israeli hostages that they IDF were searching for. 

 

They were unarmed, shirtless and waving white flags.

 

What makes it worse is that 2 were killed outright before the ceasefire was ordered. The 3rd man was wounded and went back to the relative safety of the building and came out again unarmed, shirtless and waving a white flag.

 

He was still shot and killed.

 

So in fact 3 unarmed civilians were murdered by their own side.

 

Of course if you think that killing unarmed civilians trying to surrender is OK, please feel free to give your version of what happened.

 

@billd766

 

Look at the heading of the topic. That last part - 'IDF says'.

I know some of you imagine battles and war to be organized, everything clear cut and so on.

Doesn't work this way.

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The IDF already confirmed soldiers shot the escaped hostages.....

Yes well in this case they really had no choice. That wasn't the kind of incident the news of which could be counted on to be suppressed or could be greeted with indifference by the Israeli public.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Yes well in this case they really had no choice. That wasn't the kind of incident the news of which could be counted on to be suppressed or could be met with indifference.

 

They also gave full details on the soldier shooting the last one disobeying an order. And details regard briefing on this the day prior (which said unit/soldiers did not get). To be clear, the area is designated a battle zone - this is north Gaza.

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

They also gave full details on the soldier shooting the last one disobeying an order. And details regard briefing on this the day prior (which said unit/soldiers did not get). To be clear, the area is designated a battle zone - this is north Gaza.

Actually, that they didn't get a briefing makes the case worse. Had they received the briefing they would have been told that there might be hostages in the area. In other words, had they known that, would have been less likely to shoot someone waving a white flag.

[Morch]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually, that they didn't get a briefing makes the case worse. Had they received the briefing they would have been told that there might be hostages in the area. In other words, had they known that, would have been less likely to shoot someone waving a white flag.

 

Yeah. Other units in the area were briefed, this one was not. There's more....

 

IDF dog recorded escaped hostage yelling for help before erroneous slayings — probe

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-dog-recorded-escaped-hostage-yelling-for-help-before-erroneous-slayings-probe/

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually, that they didn't get a briefing makes the case worse. Had they received the briefing they would have been told that there might be hostages in the area. In other words, had they known that, would have been less likely to shoot someone waving a white flag.

When in doubt, shoot to kill is their policy. 

Palestinians are not equals to Israeli thought. 

[sirineou]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Israel have absolutely no right to tell the Gazan people to move! 

They break international laws all the time.

I dont know why all the confused reaction emojis in you pretty straight forward reply , all one has to do is google "Is israel breaking international law in gaza attacks"

very simple . nothing complex or to be confused about. 

"he Israeli government’s decision to cut power, water and fuel supply to the enclave amounts to collective punishment of its entire population of 2.3 million people and violates international laws. "

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/12/is-israeli-bombing-of-gaza-a-violation-of-international-laws

and if you still have any doubts, all you need to do is google " is collective punishment against international law"

"The prohibition of collective punishment in IHL dates back to Hague Convention (II) of 1899. "

https://opiniojuris.org/2023/10/24/a-short-history-of-the-war-crime-of-collective-punishment/#:~:text=International Humanitarian Law,Convention (II) of 1899.

 

[sirineou]

16 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Not necessarily, Israel gave them a safe passage and directions and the time to go and Israeli stopped firing allowing them safe passage . Gave them maps and directions 

  Don't you watch the news ?

So you are saying the children at too stupid to get out of the way, and deserve what they got.

Stupid children, always going and getting killed .

[Bkk Brian]

‘“At the first opportunity,” Haim continued, “you are invited to come to us, whoever wants to. And we want to see you with our own eyes and hug you and tell you that what you did — however hard it is to say this, and sad — it was apparently the right thing in that moment."

 

‘Not your fault’: Mother sends love, support to troops who killed son in tragic error

Iris Haim, whose son Yotam was shot dead in error by IDF troops in northern Gaza, recorded a message on Wednesday for the soldiers who killed him, telling them that she and her family love them and do not blame them for his death.

Yotam, 28, was abducted by Hamas terrorists from Kibbutz Kfar Aza on October 7. He was shot dead, together with two other hostages, Alon Shamriz and Samar Talalka, by IDF troops who mistakenly identified them as a threat, in a tragic incident on December 15 that is the subject of an ongoing IDF investigation.

“And don’t hesitate for a second if you see a terrorist,” she urged. “Don’t think that you killed a hostage deliberately. You have to look after yourselves because only that way can you look after us.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/not-your-fault-mother-sends-love-support-to-troops-who-killed-son-in-tragic-error

Edited December 21, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They are asked to move to the areas of Gaza that aren't being targeted by the IDF , safer areas

and where are those safer areas, pray tell?

Rafa perhaps where they were told it was safe?

 

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-international/israeli-air-strikes-intensify-southern-gaza

Intense Israeli air strikes have hit the south of the Gaza Strip, killing and wounding dozens of Palestinians, including in areas where Israel had told people to seek shelter, residents and journalists on the ground said.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and where are those safer areas, pray tell?

Rafa perhaps where they were told it was safe?

 

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-international/israeli-air-strikes-intensify-southern-gaza

Intense Israeli air strikes have hit the south of the Gaza Strip, killing and wounding dozens of Palestinians, including in areas where Israel had told people to seek shelter, residents and journalists on the ground said.

IDF publishes daily map details. Maybe they've not notified you in NZ?

[Morch]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

So you are saying the children at too stupid to get out of the way, and deserve what they got.

Stupid children, always going and getting killed .

 

Children are the responsibility of their parents. You don't seem to have much issues with the relevant Palestinian government (Hamas) creating a situation where they will come under threat, nor providing them with any shelter (despite such being readily available).

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

IDF publishes daily map details. Maybe they've not notified you in NZ?

And you seem to believe that everything that the IDF and the is the trurg and that they would never tell a lie.