Netanyahu rejects claims accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza

[Jeff the Chef]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Whitehouse opinion on this farce from South Africa:

 

@WhiteHouse National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby dismisses South Africa’s accusation against Israel: 

“We find this submission meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact whatsoever.”

 

 

Of course the White House thinks it's a farce, what else can they say?

"It's a fair cop gov, we supplied all the ordinance and made it all legitimate, but we did ask the Israeli's to go a bit easier on the Gaza strip"

Looking forward to the 11/12th to the hearing.

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Of course the White House thinks it's a farce, what else can they say?

"It's a fair cop gov, we supplied all the ordinance and made it all legitimate, but we did ask the Israeli's to go a bit easier on the Gaza strip"

Looking forward to the 11/12th to the hearing.

The Whitehouse never said it was a farce, that was me....... Read my post again.

 

The rest of your response is a another rustled up word salad from you chef.

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Considering the size and weight of the caught Hamas guys , it will be a good few months before they risk death from starvation 

I suspect the IDF will have them on a strict diet of just 3 meals a day from now on

 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

What I'm seeing here is your usual nitpicking. Nothing more.

Is that all you've got? Thanks for the reflexive nonsense.  If you believe that  the difference between predictions and reality is a matter of "nitpicking", then have I got some stock picks for you.

[Jeff the Chef]

46 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Whitehouse never said it was a farce, that was me....... Read my post again.

 

The rest of your response is a another rustled up word salad from you chef.

Defending the undefendable, let us wait till the 11th, will be a fun day for the USA as they are not the ones in court, yet.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

Defending the undefendable, let us wait till the 11th, will be a fun day for the USA as they are not the ones in court, yet.

Just correcting your errors which prove you can't read the post you replied to

[Jeff the Chef]

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Whitehouse opinion on this farce from South Africa:

@

WhiteHouse National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby dismisses South Africa’s accusation against Israel: 

“We find this submission meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact whatsoever.”

 

 

Defender of all Israeli actions in Gaza, Bkk Brian, has stated that he considers the comment of John Kirby, National Security Council Spokesperson “We find this submission meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact whatsoever.” a farce.

Does Bkk Brian also consider the 84 page document presented to the Registrar of the International Court of Justice, a farce too?

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf#page=72

 

[herfiehandbag]

22 hours ago, Morch said:

 

lost me at the last line.

 

The South African Government is a client of Iran when it comes to funds to allow it's economy to struggle along.

 

The string currently attached is presenting a (barely) more presentable face when it comes to engaging with the ICJ. 

 

It would be much more difficult for the ICJ to refuse a case brought by a state still basking in the reputation of the late Nelson Mandela (who I thought in many ways an admirable man) than to refuse a case brought by a Theocratic regime with many links to human rights abuses and an exporter of terrorism.

 

Dealings in these courts, like any agency with "International" or "UN" in their titles are more about international politics, and often have the cube root of bugger all to do with the stated aims of their charters!

[Bkk Brian]

31 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Defender of all Israeli actions in Gaza, Bkk Brian, has stated that he considers the comment of John Kirby, National Security Council Spokesperson “We find this submission meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact whatsoever.” a farce.

Does Bkk Brian also consider the 84 page document presented to the Registrar of the International Court of Justice, a farce too?

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf#page=72

 

Your comprehension of my post is truly bizarre. That aside, I have no need to read 84 pages of "meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact" farce. I hope you've done your revision and read it.

 

This man will be however, although lets hope your not looking for a decision in a few days, the ICJ will take weeks for even a provisional decision

 

British barrister to represent Israel against genocide claims

A British barrister has been chosen to represent Israel in the International Court of Justice next week, as the country defends itself against a claim of genocide.
Professor Malcolm Shaw KC, a leading expert on territorial disputes and a published author on the law of genocide, was said to be “proud, honoured and privileged” to have been handed the case.
A graduate of both the University of Liverpool and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Professor Shaw’s selection signals Israel’s reversal of a decades-long policy of boycotting the UN court, which is based in The Hague.

https://archive.ph/HWLXw

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/04/british-barrister-to-represent-israel-genocide-claim/

 

Can you quote me where I have defended all actions of Israel?

[Hanaguma]

Ah yes, the world's slowest, most ineffective, most poorly executed genocide. 

 

So terrible that the population in the 'genocided' territory has only tripled since 1990.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Is that all you've got? Thanks for the reflexive nonsense.  If you believe that  the difference between predictions and reality is a matter of "nitpicking", then have I got some stock picks for you.

 

No, it's all you've got, so it doesn't take much to dismiss. I've already addressed the way you 'debate', you're just doing more of the same now.

Give it a rest, no one's really interested in  your nonsense.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

The South African Government is a client of Iran when it comes to funds to allow it's economy to struggle along.

 

The string currently attached is presenting a (barely) more presentable face when it comes to engaging with the ICJ. 

 

It would be much more difficult for the ICJ to refuse a case brought by a state still basking in the reputation of the late Nelson Mandela (who I thought in many ways an admirable man) than to refuse a case brought by a Theocratic regime with many links to human rights abuses and an exporter of terrorism.

 

Dealings in these courts, like any agency with "International" or "UN" in their titles are more about international politics, and often have the cube root of bugger all to do with the stated aims of their charters!

 

I still think you'd have to actually demonstrate what you claim.

South Africa's attitude toward Israel is nothing new, and IMO, independent of Iran's. That their views may coincide is another matter.

A better question would be why the PA isn't the one bringing this to the ICJ.

 

Be that as it may, people here get overly excited by this.

The timeline, regardless of anything, is way slower than some imagine.

 

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, it's all you've got, so it doesn't take much to dismiss. I've already addressed the way you 'debate', you're just doing more of the same now.

Give it a rest, no one's really interested in  your nonsense.

 

I know you've appointed yourself as forum referee. Now you've appointed yourself the forum spokesman, too? The fact that you engage in this kind of denialsm instead of addressing the facts, shows how little you've got. We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is, and more importantly from the World Food Programme. The report from the World Food Programme dated Dec 21 is the first time they've said that there is actual ongoing starvation. As the New Yorker article delineated, the World Food Programme goes through a lot of procedures to make sure that the information is accurate. All you've got to offer in rebuttal of that is unsourced blather about the nature of such organizations.

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

No, it's all you've got, so it doesn't take much to dismiss. I've already addressed the way you 'debate', you're just doing more of the same now.

Give it a rest, no one's really interested in  your nonsense.

 

When did you become the keeper of who is or isn't interested in posts that you fail to debate with statements like this?

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah yes, the world's slowest, most ineffective, most poorly executed genocide. 

 

So terrible that the population in the 'genocided' territory has only tripled since 1990.

So you are saying this is poorly executed genocide, on a people who breed well?

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I know you've appointed yourself as forum referee. Now you've appointed yourself the forum spokesman, too? The fact that you engage in this kind of denialsm instead of addressing the facts, shows how little you've got. We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is, and more importantly from the World Food Programme. The report from the World Food Programme dated Dec 21 is the first time they've said that there is actual ongoing starvation. As the New Yorker article delineated, the World Food Programme goes through a lot of procedures to make sure that the information is accurate. All you've got to offer in rebuttal of that is unsourced blather about the nature of such organizations.

Never getting my vote as a forum referee.

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So you are saying this is poorly executed genocide, on a people who breed well?

You really think the Israelis couldn't throw a good genocide, if they wanted? Really? The IAF has 300 attack aircraft and the best they can do is kill 2-300 people a day... come on, man. 

[Jeff the Chef]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

You really think the Israelis couldn't throw a good genocide, if they wanted? Really? The IAF has 300 attack aircraft and the best they can do is kill 2-300 people a day... come on, man. 

So you are not saying it isn't genocide, just that the IDF are not very good at it, even with 300 attack aircraft to use on defenceless civilians, never mind the tanks, artillery pieces and naval guns off the coast of Gaza.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I know you've appointed yourself as forum referee. Now you've appointed yourself the forum spokesman, too? The fact that you engage in this kind of denialsm instead of addressing the facts, shows how little you've got. We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is, and more importantly from the World Food Programme. The report from the World Food Programme dated Dec 21 is the first time they've said that there is actual ongoing starvation. As the New Yorker article delineated, the World Food Programme goes through a lot of procedures to make sure that the information is accurate. All you've got to offer in rebuttal of that is unsourced blather about the nature of such organizations.

 

More of your huffing and puffing. No appointments, an observation.

Same old - you start from something you think is a big deal, fail to get traction, seize on some side issue mentioned and develop it into a dreary, almost pointless argument to cover your tracks. This too, usually does not generate wide traction other than a single poster or so doing the back and forth. You are, as usual, trying to present views of others in a misleading, dishonest way - going on and on about it and expecting to be taken seriously.

 

Try and follow your own arguments and 'reasoning' instead of hopping about as it suits.

Edited January 5 by Morch

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

When did you become the keeper of who is or isn't interested in posts that you fail to debate with statements like this?

 

An observation, based on years of acquaintance with poster's 'debate' style, and on how things fare for him on these topics.

 

There was no 'failure' to debate anything, other than in your imagination.

Edited January 5 by Morch

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Never getting my vote as a forum referee.

 

Maybe you're new here.

We don't get to 'vote' on such stuff.

And, of course, just more nonsense from you and the other poster.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

So you are not saying it isn't genocide, just that the IDF are not very good at it, even with 300 attack aircraft to use on defenceless civilians, never mind the tanks, artillery pieces and naval guns off the coast of Gaza.

 

No. What it means is that it's not a genocide.

Not too hard to understand.

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

An observation, based on years of acquaintance with poster's 'debate' style, and on how things fare for him on these topics.

 

There was no 'failure' to debate anything, other than in your imagination.

Really, so now you know what's in my imagination as well, good to know.

Are you getting what I am imagining now, Morch?

 

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Really, so now you know what's in my imagination as well, good to know.

Are you getting what I am imagining now, Morch?

 

 

I know that you imagined that I 'failed' to debate, as mentioned in your post.

The rest is your usual pointless nonsense.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I know you've appointed yourself as forum referee. Now you've appointed yourself the forum spokesman, too? The fact that you engage in this kind of denialsm instead of addressing the facts, shows how little you've got. We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is, and more importantly from the World Food Programme. The report from the World Food Programme dated Dec 21 is the first time they've said that there is actual ongoing starvation. As the New Yorker article delineated, the World Food Programme goes through a lot of procedures to make sure that the information is accurate. All you've got to offer in rebuttal of that is unsourced blather about the nature of such organizations.

"We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is"

 

Really, its had its fair share of failed fact checks, not sure how you can claim its one of the most accurate sources there is? 

 

Regardless so we don't get into that debate on credible sources again and go off topic, can you provide a link to the eyewitness reports in the Wall Street Journal?

 

The report dated 21st Dec from the New Yorker with headline "Gaza Is Starving". Interesting how different media have a take on this, here's the report from the New York Times, dated 1st Jan:

 

Half of Gazans Are at Risk of Starving, U.N. Warns

“I’ve been doing this for about 20 years,” Mr. Husain said. “I’ve been to pretty much any conflict, whether Yemen, whether it was South Sudan, northeast Nigeria, Ethiopia, you name it. And I have never seen anything like this, both in terms of its scale, its magnitude, but also at the pace that this has unfolded.”
Eylon Levy, an Israeli government spokesman, contended that Israel did not stand in the way of humanitarian assistance and blamed Hamas, the Palestinian group that rules Gaza, for any shortages. He accused Hamas of seizing some of the aid for its own uses. He did not provide evidence, but Western and Arab officials have said that Hamas is known to have a large stockpile of supplies, including food, fuel and medicine.

https://archive.ph/0liiq

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/01/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hunger.html

 

The source report however offers more, link to it is the the article above. Some of its data input was from a survey of local Gazans taken in the November ceasefire and of course local UN agencies including some of those who are well known to be infiltrated with Hamas supporters. The remainder of the first section of the report is based on data input between 24 November - 7 December 2023 only, not for the present.

 

We know that the second border crossing was opened on the 17th Dec through Israel's Kerem Shalom border crossing and that led to a significant increase in food aid delivery. The remaining sections of the report is predictions based on differing scenarios, those predictions go up to Feb 2024.

 

Bottom line, the first section of the report is already out of date since the new border crossing opened and more aid started to enter. So pointless debating further.

[Bkk Brian]

Israel is not committing genocide — but Hamas is

It is important to underscore that the commission of genocide has nothing to do with the number of civilian casualties; the key element of the crime is the need to possess relevant “intent.” Whatever criticism one may have of Israeli policies or Israel Defense Forces (IDF) actions in Gaza, Israel is not seeking to destroy the Palestinian people, whether in whole, in part, or in any manner. 

During a Nov. 20 briefing, U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby eviscerated the inappropriate use of the term genocide to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, forcefully stating: 

“Israel isn’t trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel isn’t trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel is trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist threat. So, if we’re going to start using that word, fine. Let’s use it appropriately.” 

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4388533-israel-is-not-committing-genocide-but-hamas-is/

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

The report from the World Food Programme dated Dec 21 is the first time they've said that there is actual ongoing starvation.

 

   OK, that was 17 days ago . 

Did anyone actually starve to death ?

Do you think that anyone is going to starve to death ?

[herfiehandbag]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   OK, that was 17 days ago . 

Did anyone actually starve to death ?

Do you think that anyone is going to starve to death ?

The photographic record of those taken prisoner by the Israelis does show them to be not particularly "nutritionally challenged"!

[Jeff the Chef]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Israel is not committing genocide — but Hamas is

It is important to underscore that the commission of genocide has nothing to do with the number of civilian casualties; the key element of the crime is the need to possess relevant “intent.” Whatever criticism one may have of Israeli policies or Israel Defense Forces (IDF) actions in Gaza, Israel is not seeking to destroy the Palestinian people, whether in whole, in part, or in any manner. 

During a Nov. 20 briefing, U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby eviscerated the inappropriate use of the term genocide to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, forcefully stating: 

“Israel isn’t trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel isn’t trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel is trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist threat. So, if we’re going to start using that word, fine. Let’s use it appropriately.” 

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4388533-israel-is-not-committing-genocide-but-hamas-is/

Brian, Brian, Brian, it is all an opinion, taken from the link, that is all.

OPINION>INTERNATIONAL
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
Israel is not committing genocide — but Hamas is  
BY ARSEN OSTROVSKY AND STANISLAV PAVLOVSCHI, OPINION CONTRIBUTORS - 01/04/24 8:30 AM ET

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Brian, Brian, Brian, it is all an opinion, taken from the link, that is all.

OPINION>INTERNATIONAL
THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
Israel is not committing genocide — but Hamas is  
BY ARSEN OSTROVSKY AND STANISLAV PAVLOVSCHI, OPINION CONTRIBUTORS - 01/04/24 8:30 AM ET

 

From the link Jeff....

 

U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby eviscerated the inappropriate use of the term genocide to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, forcefully stating: 

“Israel isn’t trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel isn’t trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel is trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist threat. So, if we’re going to start using that word, fine. Let’s use it appropriately.” 

 

Edited January 5 by Bkk Brian