Concrete mixer not delivering paid volume

[gearbox]

My gf ordered 4 cubic metres concrete mix,  but by my estimates the truck delivered no more than 2.5 cubic metres. Is there anything she can do about this? How widespread is this practice?

[KannikaP]

7 minutes ago, gearbox said:

My gf ordered 4 cubic metres concrete mix,  but by my estimates the truck delivered no more than 2.5 cubic metres. Is there anything she can do about this? How widespread is this practice?

How did you estimate the volume of concrete delivered?

[sirineou]

23 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How did you estimate the volume of concrete delivered?

Using a concrete calculator it is easy to determine the amount of concrete used. Plenty of free ones  online

[Will B Good]

Wouldn't surprise me if you are correct....Land Of Scams.

 

I see there is a big fuss about fuel pumps at the moment......some guy checked to find he'd been short changed by 5 litres.

Edited January 21 by Will B Good

[Crossy]

I don't know if it's a standard, but when we built our place, the contractor was rigorous about checking the delivery paperwork for each truck.

 

Of course, without a weighbridge one would have to trust the paperwork!

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Wouldn't surprise me if you are correct....Land Of Scams.

 

I see there is a big fuss about fuel pumps at the moment......some guy checked to find he'd been short changed by 5 litres.

 

How did he check ?

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

How did he check ?

I think he had suspicions they were cheating him.......but not sure of the details.....think it was Chaiyaphum???

[Will B Good]

14 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

How did he check ?

 

<link to Bangkok Post removed per forum rules - sorry>

[jvs]

We have always had extra concrete delivered so i always have a patch ready for the excess.

1.5 cubic meters short is a lot!

 

[jvs]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

I think he had suspicions they were cheating him.......but not sure of the details.....think it was Chaiyaphum???

He bought 5 liters and checked it later at home i think.

This has cost PTT a lot of customers!

 

[Ralf001]

10 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

Was his meter calibrated ?

[Tropicalevo]

Not much help to you but water trucks short deliver as well. Common scam here on Samui.

[BenStark]

I remember when I still cut the lawn by myself, and I had a 3.5 liter jerry can, that they were always able to fill it with almost 4 liter.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

My gf ordered 4 cubic metres concrete mix,  but by my estimates the truck delivered no more than 2.5 cubic metres. Is there anything she can do about this? How widespread is this practice?

Depends on in what you placed the concrete mix (inside a formwork, on the ground etc...)

 

Concrete placed in a formwork would be the most accurate. Concrete placed on/in ground excavations have wide margins for consuming excess concrete and wastage.

 

How was the order volume estimated and were allowances made for wastage?

 

Concrete has an estimated wet mass of about 2600 kg/m³ and generally for concrete placed in forms a waste factor is about 1% extra but if placed on/in ground the wastage could go upto 5%

 

For eg Apparent concrete shortages are sometimes caused for the following reasons:

Miscalculations of form volume or slab thickness when actual dimensions exceed the assumed dimensions by a fraction of an inch. For example, a 1/8 inch (3-mm) error in a 4 inch (100-mm) slab would mean a shortage of 3 percent or 1 yd3 in a 32-yd3 (1-m3 in a 32-m3) order.

Deflection or distortion of the forms resulting from pressure exerted by the concrete.

Irregular subgrade, placement over granular fill, and settlement of subgrade prior to placement.

Over the course of a large job, the small amounts of concrete returned each day or used in mud sills or incidental footings.

 

Follow These Rules to Avoid Under-Yield

1. Measure volume needed accurately. Reevaluate required volume towards the end of the pour and inform the concrete producer.
2. Estimate waste and potential increased thickness – order more than required by at least 4 to 10 percent.
3. To check yield use the ASTM C 138 unit weight test method on three samples from three different loads – yield is the total batch weight divided by the average unit weight or density

 

Edited January 21 by freeworld

[retarius]

I suspected this. Whenever we have have building work done, it always seems the loads, for sand, cement, soil or concrete are always short. I always assumed that if you complained you got a punch on the nose or your house burned down.

[brianthainess]

15 minutes ago, retarius said:

I always assumed that if you complained you got a punch on the nose or your house burned down.

Or both. 😱 👊🏻 🧨

[Bday Prang]

And when you have all stopped worrying about how much concrete has been delivered, which can after all be rectified quite easily by simply ordering some more,  you can begin worrying about how much cement was put into the mix in the first place, that is a lot more difficult to correct ( its actually impossible)  and can result in structural failure, 

Not really an issue if only constructing a slab to park a car on, but real cause for concern if building a two or three storey house.

[Olmate]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Or both. 😱 👊🏻 🧨

Or your car filled with cement  later that night! 

[AndyAndyAndy]

I don't understand how would that scam work? 

 

Let's say I'm making concrete patio I and calculate that I need 4 cubic meters. I order 4. But they deliver 2. Half of my pour is empty and I instantly know that I was not given enough?

 

With price 1800 Baht / 1 cubic meter everybody is ordering exactly how much they need. I don't see how could they get away with giving customers just half?

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

We have always had extra concrete delivered so i always have a patch ready for the excess.

1.5 cubic meters short is a lot!

 

I had visitors at that time who happened to know quite a bit about concrete calculations, but even for my not trained eye the concrete was way less.

 

Another truck is on its way with 1 cubic metre, it would be harder to scam with this one.

Edited January 21 by gearbox

[gearbox]

16 minutes ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

I don't understand how would that scam work? 

 

Let's say I'm making concrete patio I and calculate that I need 4 cubic meters. I order 4. But they deliver 2. Half of my pour is empty and I instantly know that I was not given enough?

 

With price 1800 Baht / 1 cubic meter everybody is ordering exactly how much they need. I don't see how could they get away with giving customers just half?

Easy...they just pour the concrete and give you official invoice for 4 cubic metres.

BTW concrete mix in Samui is 2600 baht per cubic metre, but apparently there are different types of mixes, this one had a lot of small stones inside.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 

How did he check ?

Can a lot of modern cars with electronic dashboards tell how many litres of fuel are in the tank?

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

Another truck is on its way with 1 cubic metre, it would be harder to scam with this one

It won't be any harder for them to scam , it will be exactly the same,  they simply put less in ,  It will just be easier for you to notice, 

If you were 1.5 cubic meters short, why did you only order 1 additional cubic meter.  ?

[steven100]

disregard my question OP ....  doesn't matter if you've already ordered more.

 

OP ....  was it a concrete slab or foundation ?    are you saying you measured what was needed was 4.0m3

was it a mini truck that delivered or a larger normal concrete truck ? 

 

 

I just seen your comment that you ordered more .... 

that's ok ....  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by steven100

[gearbox]

Just now, Bday Prang said:

It won't be any harder for them to scam , it will be exactly the same,  they simply put less in ,  It will just be easier for you to notice, 

If you were 1.5 cubic meters short, why did you only order 1 additional cubic meter.  ?

Because 4 cubic metres was more than required as per calculations The tradie was calculating 2 cubic metres with his height, it looked thinner to me and said to my gf to order double.

 

 

[Bday Prang]

22 minutes ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

With price 1800 Baht / 1 cubic meter

Where i live 1800 / cube is really  the cheapest / weakest concrete available, hope you are not building anything were strength is an issue

[gearbox]

3 minutes ago, steven100 said:

OP ....  was it a concrete slab or foundation ?    are you saying you measured what was needed was 4.0m3

was it a mini truck that delivered or a larger normal concrete truck ? 

You are testing my extra thin builder knowledge....it was just extra concrete on top of existing concrete driveway. The truck was normal concrete mixer, I was told they fit in 5 cubic metres.

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

Because 4 cubic metres was more than required as per calculations The tradie was calculating 2 cubic metres with his height, it looked thinner to me and said to my gf to order double.

 

 

Not a bad Idea as long as you have a place available to get rid of any excess

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

Because 4 cubic metres was more than required as per calculations The tradie was calculating 2 cubic metres with his height, it looked thinner to me and said to my gf to order double.

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a 'fast one' is being pulled in such circumstances...  Most people wouldn't check. 

 

Its not a hard volume to calculate if the 'shape' is relatively even and depth is consistent. 

 

The issue of course, is how to prove it...  And, even if it could be proven the response would be 'oops sorry, mistake'... 

 

There's simply no incentive for honesty here with things like this (perhaps anywhere).

 

Perhaps its an issue of 'competition' with providers undercutting each other to such a degree that the only way to remain profitable is to 'pull a fast one'... 

 

 

 

 

[jvs]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

You are testing my extra thin builder knowledge....it was just extra concrete on top of existing concrete driveway. The truck was normal concrete mixer, I was told they fit in 5 cubic metres.

Very easy to calculate how much you need,lenght x wide x height.