Misunderstanding over actual size of lithium deposits found in Thailand

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

This is interesting.

Please can you post your link.

As far as I am aware, lithium batteries are not bothered by lower temperatures and are well behaved down to +10°C.

Below that temperature they will become sluggish and will not perform so powerfully.

However they do warm up in use. So much So in fact that efforts to stop them getting too hot have to be included in the design of packs.

+10 C is not cold.

[BenStark]

2 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Just putting this already deflected discussion into context.  This is a discussion about the discovery of Li in Thailand, which is a good thing, but it has been deflected by the EV haters into EVs are no good in the cold. Most of the posters clearly don’t even live in Thailand as there are more interested in talking about Heat Pumps now!

 

I actually live in Thailand and drive EVs in Thailand so just wanted to explain to our overseas visitors that temperature here does not effect range or charging, but maybe that’s because my EV has a heat pump :)

 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Most of the posters clearly don’t even live in Thailand

 

 

Most of the EV users in the world don't even live in Thailand. In fact most of the world population doesn't live in Thailand.

 

So how your EV behaves in Thailand is a lame point

[klauskunkel]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Again a "misunderstanding", why do these happen so frequently?

The government is so desperate for any positive news that they just jump the gun at the discovery, happy to deflect from their scandals. Of course due diligence when reporting goes right out the window.

[mikebell]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The Department of Primary Industries and Mines has explained that there appears to be a misunderstanding

AKA a Lie.

[tomazbodner]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

So the real amount is about 0.3% of the amount of the deposits that Bolivia is producing from and not even enough to cover the need for EV batteries for cars in Thailand itself. Again a "misunderstanding", why do these happen so frequently?

Someone just prevented "Democracy" being brought to Thailand in exchange for Lithium?

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, BenStark said:

Most of the EV users in the world don't even live in Thailand. In fact most of the world population doesn't live in Thailand.

 

So how your EV behaves in Thailand is a lame point

 

Just that this discussion is about Li in Thailand a country with one of the fastest growing EV manufacturing sectors in the world. This discussion was posted in a Thailand Forum and you don't want to talk about Thailand. 

 

 

 

[rwill]

So 14.8 million tons is actually about 67K tons now.

[stargrazer9889]

In Canada the Federal government is trying to get everyone to buy EVs and heat pumps.

 Edmonton alberta has lots of new EV buses that will not work in the cold weather of Winter, and heat pumps are useless below minus 25C. EVs are okay in hot climates, but my Thai relatives say that they charge too slow. Do lots of research before going green, that is my advice.

[Will B Good]

A misunderstanding over actual size is a problem I faced many a time.

[OzzBlizz]

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/insurance/auto/articles/hertz-is-selling-20000-electric-vehicles-heres-why-thats-a-bad-sign-for-ev-costs/

[Enoon]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

So the real amount is about 0.3% of the amount of the deposits that Bolivia is producing from and not even enough to cover the need for EV batteries for cars in Thailand itself. Again a "misunderstanding", why do these happen so frequently?

 

This one?

 

Pump and dump?

 

[Bandersnatch]

14 minutes ago, stargrazer9889 said:

my Thai relatives say that they charge too slow.

 

Really?  Ultra fast EV chargers have been installed in Thailand over the last couple of years because EVs have only recently been sold here. In countries where they started installing chargers 10 years ago they were slow 50kW chargers, but in Thailand most are 150kW or higher.

 

150kW charging speed mean that my EV can add 350km range in 20 minutes. Unless I am travelling more than 600km I will charge at home, so my EV is always 100%

 

20 minutes ago, stargrazer9889 said:

Do lots of research before going green, that is my advice

 

Do lots of research before posting online, that is my advice.

[mikebike]

25 minutes ago, stargrazer9889 said:

my Thai relatives say that they charge too slow

Well there ya go. Absolute, irrefutable TRUTH! My relatives said it 🤣🤣🤣

Edited January 22 by mikebike

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=EV+cars+breaking+doen+in+the+cold+climates&oq=EV+cars+breaking+doen+in+the+cold+climates&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160.16645j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:de5d4322,vid:tzrUkgbVoro,st:0

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=EV+cars+breaking+doen+in+the+cold+climates&oq=EV+cars+breaking+doen+in+the+cold+climates&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160.16645j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:1c5256ec,vid:6a63gj0TdXo,st:0

 

 

Countered by:

Norway as with the highest number of electric vehicles in the early with 81% per 1,000 population in 2020.

Iceland that has 36.8% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

Sweden that has 20.6% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

https://voi.id/en/economy/215422

 

 

 

[Eaglekott]

13 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Countered by:

Norway as with the highest number of electric vehicles in the early with 81% per 1,000 population in 2020.

Iceland that has 36.8% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

Sweden that has 20.6% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

https://voi.id/en/economy/215422

 

 

 

That page has a bit odd way to tell the amount of electric vehicles. Why do state a % of a 1,000 population? the % would be the same even it they say per 100, per 100,000 or per 1Million.

[BenStark]

17 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Countered by:

Norway as with the highest number of electric vehicles in the early with 81% per 1,000 population in 2020.

Countered by :

 

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2024/01/10/electric-bus-fleet-froze-in-the-cold/

 

Electric bus fleet froze in the cold

 

January 10, 2024

Oslo’s public transport agency Ruter had to cancel nearly 200 bus departures again on Wednesday, after thousands of cancellations earlier in the week. The city’s fleet of electric buses has simply not operated well in the recent cold snap.

[mikebike]

3 minutes ago, Eaglekott said:

That page has a bit odd way to tell the amount of electric vehicles. Why do state a % of a 1,000 population? the % would be the same even it they say per 100, per 100,000 or per 1Million.

Yes, that's the way orders of magnitude work. What's your point? 

[quake]

 

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

A misunderstanding over actual size is a problem I faced many a time.

 

Your ok, They make them in many sizes now days.

 

Edited January 22 by quake

[digger70]

5 hours ago, Muhendis said:

This is interesting.

Please can you post your link.

As far as I am aware, lithium batteries are not bothered by lower temperatures and are well behaved down to +10°C.

Below that temperature they will become sluggish and will not perform so powerfully.

However they do warm up in use. So much So in fact that efforts to stop them getting too hot have to be included in the design of packs.

Freezing weather drains your battery power by 30-60%. Your battery naturally recharges as you drive—but you must first face the challenge of getting it started. Why does the cold drain battery power?

Most batteries work through an electrochemical reaction, which sends power signals to your terminal ends. This chemical reaction slows down in colder weather, weakening your battery’s power. 

[Eaglekott]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Yes, that's the way orders of magnitude work. What's your point? 

 

My point is that they could simply just state the percentage.

[ikke1959]

they have used the old calculators of TAT I suppose... and of course a misunderstanding as so many times

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Countered by:

Norway as with the highest number of electric vehicles in the early with 81% per 1,000 population in 2020.

Iceland that has 36.8% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

Sweden that has 20.6% of electric vehicles per 1,000 population.

https://voi.id/en/economy/215422

 

 

Not doubting the stats but "x% per 1000 population" is a bit of a weird stat as the "per 1000 population" is useless. Usually they have an absolute value before "per 1000 x".

Edited January 22 by eisfeld
Edit: Eaglekott already mentioned it

[Puccini]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I heard the batteries are very hard to charge when it is very cold......sometimes I wonder if we get all the facts. I am still skeptical over these 'heat pumps' that are being forced on everyone, at great expense, to the buyer and the tax payer. 

 

Are heat pumps equipped with hard-to-charge batteries?

 

[BritScot]

7 hours ago, 8OA8 said:

Thanks for this very useful feedback. I've been dithering on whether to go for an oil boiler or the heat pump.

Its got to be new oil boiler

Go oil or a duel fuel raeburn. That would be my dream.

[Lingba]

So we're not the hub of lithium?

[Puccini]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I heard the batteries are very hard to charge when it is very cold...

 

I read something about that, too, the other day and wondered why that should be so. Does the cold adversely affect the proper functioning of the charging station? Does the cold reduce the charging speed (amperes, kilowatts)?

 

I know that when it is very cold, the battery gets warmed up first before the charging starts and this obviously increases the overall time to get it charged, but I don't know about the other factors.

Edited January 22 by Puccini

[BritScot]

11 hours ago, Muhendis said:

This is interesting.

Please can you post your link.

As far as I am aware, lithium batteries are not bothered by lower temperatures and are well behaved down to +10°C.

Below that temperature they will become sluggish and will not perform so powerfully.

However they do warm up in use. So much So in fact that efforts to stop them getting too hot have to be included in the design of packs.

Lol: and on other advertising for EV cars... News from Canada, America, Europe an the uk. Not only ev batteries but charging stations are affected by cold weather -0°. Also, hot weather mixed with traffic jam's  and I witnessed that one myself all along the hard sholder of the motorway. Ev, after Ev...

[Bandersnatch]

13 minutes ago, BritScot said:

Also, hot weather mixed with traffic jam's  and I witnessed that one myself all along the hard sholder of the motorway. Ev, after Ev

Post a picture. You must have taken a picture so that you crow about EVs in hot weather. “EV, after EV” 

 

Post the picture and prove that you’re not a BS merchant.

 

I have been driving EVs in Thailand for years and never seen any loss in performance in my EVs.

 

I am an active member of a number of Thai EV forums and never heard anyone talking about EVs breaking down in the heat. Batteries now have active cooling management in EVs, but you probably didn’t know that.

 

ICE car engines continue run in traffic jams and overheat but EVs just shut down when not needed, but you probably didn’t know that either.

 

 

 

 

[John Drake]

Isn't lithium medication used to treat mania? Might be a bigger market for it than people think.

[Lacessit]

The OP is wrong. Chile has the largest reserves of lithium, followed by Australia. Argentina comes a distant third.

 

In terms of mine production, Australia leads, followed by China and Argentina