Scottish woman’s cliff plunge in Thailand sparks insurance debacle

[stargrazer9889]

I am wondering if this person has a motorcycle license for Scotland, as well as an international license

for it as well. i informed my medical company of that before I got my 2 month coverage for

out of Canada medical insurance. 

Harvey

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

It would be nice if they had a native English speaker review the copy before they post it. 

"10 Best AI Proofreading Tools for Better Editing in 2024"

September 24, 2023   

https://click up.com/blog/ai-proofreading-tools/

[rwill]

Thai doctors are amazing.  Giving dead bodies the ability to talk.

[VocalNeal]

35 minutes ago, retarius said:

Don't talk to me like I am 5,

 

If the cap fits🤔

 

You said the scooter is too fast for you. It will only go fast if you want it to. To paraphrase an HSE sign "It doesn't have a mind of its own so use yours"

[Sheryl]

Baiting/flaming posts have been removed

[sambum]

5 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Does this not suggest that she died?

Correct -  Communication/translation breakdown AGAIN?

[RobU]

3 hours ago, n00dle said:

the story is credited to Bob Scott from Newcastle:
Bob Scott

Bob Scott is an experienced writer and editor with a passion for travel. Born and raised in Newcastle, England, he spent more than 10 years in Asia. He worked as a sports writer in the north of England and London before relocating to Asia. Now he resides in Bangkok, Thailand, where he is the Editor-in-Chief for The Thaiger English News. With a vast amount of experience from living and writing abroad, Bob Scott is an expert on all things related to Asian culture and lifestyle.

Looks like 'Bob Scott's doesn't have any basic qualifications in English grammar or language. Which leads me to believe that Bob Scott is ficticious

[scubascuba3]

"insurance saying they rejected my claim due to the scooter I hired being classed as a motorbike"

 

usually travel insurance only covers up to 125cc unless you seek out higher cover.

 

Why don't people read the policy doc? even skim read the important parts

Edited February 5 by scubascuba3

[impulse]

2 hours ago, garzhe said:

No mention of a license in the article but for a tourist to drive any vehicle legally in Thailand you need a license from your home country and an international driving permit from that country. I believe most tourists don't have both and bike renters will be unlikely to tell you this legal requirement. Insurers will insist that you must be driving legally otherwise they may not pay out.

 

Over the years, it's been discussed many times that Thailand doesn't require an IDP from drivers from countries that have in place a bilateral treaty that allows us to drive in Thailand and Thais to drive in the reciprocal country for (generally) 90 days without getting a Thai DL.  My source for that info (in addition to many threads here) was the Thai legal department of the US based company I worked for in Thailand.

 

[Surasak]

6 hours ago, retarius said:

It would be nice if they had a native English speaker review the copy before they post it. 

That statement could quite easily be taken two ways. I don't think we are talking spears and bows and arrows, but?

[roo860]

1 hour ago, stargrazer9889 said:

I am wondering if this person has a motorcycle license for Scotland, as well as an international license

for it as well. i informed my medical company of that before I got my 2 month coverage for

out of Canada medical insurance. 

Harvey

Scotland doesn't have a separate licencing requirement, It's part of the United Kingdom.

[richard_smith237]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

"insurance saying they rejected my claim due to the scooter I hired being classed as a motorbike"

 

usually travel insurance only covers up to 125cc unless you seek out higher cover.

 

Why don't people read the policy doc? even skim read the important parts

 

'usually' only cover up to 125cc ??? ( even for the average tourist who only has a car drivers licence ?)

 

I think the travel insurance only cover's licensed users.. i.e. if you have a home license, then you are covered renting a machine of similar rating overseas.

 

 

[gearbox]

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

I assume that is if you have a Thai motorbike license or an international permit.

 

https://www.travelfish.org/travel-planning/travel-insurance-motorcycles-asia

 

As far as I'm aware most travel insurances do not cover motorbikes by default.

 

https://fastcover.com.au/travel-insurance-guide/travel-insurance-for-motorcycle-riding-overseas

 

Most travel insurers do not automatically provide rental vehicle insurance or cover for equipment including bicycles, motorbikes, mopeds and scooters. This may be an optional extra you can add to your policy when you purchase travel insurance.

All the insurance policies I've seen don't mention anything about bicycles. There is no "bicycle licence" as well.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, Will B Good said:

I had to read it a few times.....the almost is the key....555

     No matter how many times you read it, the initial, very poorly written sentence said she died.   She plunged almost 20 meters to her death, says the sentence.   'Almost' doesn't really figure much in the sentence as written, except to indicate that the fall was not quite 20 meters.  Take it out and it reads '...she plunged 20 meters to her death...'.   Still dead.   If you had just this sentence to go on, your take would be she died, and her heirs received no payout from her insurance.  The initial sentence:

An insurance company left a Scottish woman hanging after they refused to pay out after she plunged almost 20 metres to her death off a cliff on Ko Lanta island in West Thailand.

[BenStark]

11 minutes ago, gearbox said:

All the insurance policies I've seen don't mention anything about bicycles. There is no "bicycle licence" as well.

 

Great cherry-picking there, you should get a reward for it. But if it isn't mentioned, then it is probably the easiest way for the insurance company to get out of paying.

 

And yes there are countries that have a bicycle license. Hawaii being just one of them

Edited February 5 by BenStark

[kiwikeith]

7 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Cute sense of humor do you think?

One word would correct the article, Near, plunged to her near death, she's lucky to be alive, shame on the insurance company, best wishes to the victim, and speedy recovery. 

[gearbox]

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

'usually' only cover up to 125cc ??? ( even for the average tourist who only has a car drivers licence ?)

 

I think the travel insurance only cover's licensed users.. i.e. if you have a home license, then you are covered renting a machine of similar rating overseas.

 

 

In many policies motorbike coverage is not included at all. Below is the wording of the last policy I had, I had to pay extra for coverage.

 

 

"Motorcycle/Moped riding
Claims involving participation by You (during the Journey) in
motorcycling or moped riding for any purpose are specifically
excluded from this policy.
If You wish to be covered for this activity during Your Journey and
be able to hire a motorcycle (including a moped) as the driver or
a pillion passenger, You must pay an extra premium. Please ask
for a quote.
Even if You pay the extra premium, You will only be covered if:
• the engine capacity is 250cc or less;
• while in control of a motorcycle or moped You hold a valid
Australian motorcycle licence or Australian motor vehicle
driver licence;
• while You are a passenger the driver holds a valid licence for
riding that vehicle;
• You are wearing a helmet;
• You are not participating in a Professional capacity;
• You are not racing; and
• You are not participating in motocross.
Note: No cover will apply under Section 17 Personal Liability. This
means You are responsible to pay costs associated with damage
to the motorcycle, moped or property or injury to another person"

[brianthainess]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

An insurance company left a Scottish woman hanging after they refused to pay out after she plunged almost 20 metres to her death off a cliff on Ko Lanta island in West Thailand.

 

So how many "METRES (?)" did she fall, why was she left "hanging" is that new a punishment that insurance companies do? silly fool, did the hire shop pay the fine, for not checking her license?  

[SingAPorn]

Look around all over either in Bangkok, Hua Hin or elsewhere. You see those irresponsable falangs riding with no helmets, wearing flip flops, trying to look more thai then they are not, rashly driving, overspeeding, with no thai licence and often no 2 wheller licence in their foreign licences. No to mention all those 50-60 year olds in Hua Hin .getting drunk in bars and riding home on the rented 2-wheeler...not surprising.

 

The authorities should also start to crack down on all the unscrupulous renters who just don't care on the driving licence of the foreigner, as long as the money comes in. Because of a bunch of retarded tourists, it's the entire expat and foreigner community who pays the price and has to go through tougher immigration and bureaucratic hassles.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

'usually' only cover up to 125cc ??? ( even for the average tourist who only has a car drivers licence ?)

 

I think the travel insurance only cover's licensed users.. i.e. if you have a home license, then you are covered renting a machine of similar rating overseas.

 

 

The article said the reason for claim denial is because of the class of scooter/motorbike, not because of no driving licence although that is often another reason for denial

[Sheryl]

12 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The article said the reason for claim denial is because of the class of scooter/motorbike, not because of no driving licence although that is often another reason for denial

Could be a mixture of both i.e. license might be required for moto but nto scooter.

 

really no way of knowing the specifics of her policy (did nto cover moto altogether, or did nto cover moto unless had a valid license etc)

 

 

[geisha]

I think travel insurance laws need to be completely reviewed. Most are very confusing, illegible, and the cause of much heartache.

What they insure and what they do not should be in large print under the Title of the said insurance. Exclusions in large red print. 

Lots of companies contracts are worded in a way to attract as many people as possible but with no guarantees in the case of an eventual illness/ accident. 

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, retarius said:

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

You know that thing on the right handlebar? Don't twist it so far. 🤔 As an aside quicker vehicles usually stop quicker as well.

Don't talk to me like I am 5, it's insulting. Do it again and I will report you. You have added nothing to the thread. 

There's nothing in his comment that you quoted that he could be rationally reported for!

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

shame on the insurance company,

Why? 

[chilli42]

Riding scooters anywhere is a bad idea, they are high risk particularly if you are not an experienced rider.  That said, insurance companies suck … and the lawyers that write those obtuse contracts.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, chilli42 said:

That said, insurance companies suck …

Why?  

[richard_smith237]

34 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The article said the reason for claim denial is because of the class of scooter/motorbike, not because of no driving licence although that is often another reason for denial

 

I'd agree that the article implies that due to a lack of clarity that leads to this assumption... 

 

What is written is... “The scooter I hired looked like a scooter and was called a scooter when I hired it but the insurance company classed it as a motorbike due to the engine size. I didn’t even know the engine size when I hired it.”

 

When reading between the lines it would appear that the girl believed her insurance covers riding a 'scooter', but not a motorcycle...  but, has the girl assumed she was covered for a scooter because her British driving license has that silhouette on it (with A and AM endorsements) which sometimes leads people to make the assumption the are 'covered for scooters' ???

 

We'd need the policy to know for sure of course....   But we can be pretty sure that no policy covers a non licensed person on a motorcycle...  the ambiguity obviously involves the word 'scooter'...  and if the policy even includes the word scooter.

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, geisha said:

I think travel insurance laws need to be completely reviewed. Most are very confusing, illegible, and the cause of much heartache.

What they insure and what they do not should be in large print under the Title of the said insurance. Exclusions in large red print. 

Lots of companies contracts are worded in a way to attract as many people as possible but with no guarantees in the case of an eventual illness/ accident. 

 

I tend to agree...  these insurance companies businesses do have long detailed policy documents that make for difficult reading... 

 

It would be good to see a 'no refusal' policy, where everything is covered, after all, no one gets hurt deliberately.

 

But, with that said, the premiums would be higher, so would the sort of person to ride a motorcycle unlicensed also be the type of person who takes out such comprehensive travel insurance policy ?

 

My recent Policy is about $220 for 11 days (for a family) - a lot of these policies are significantly less and cover a far greater duration of travel. 

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If you can't understand what the policy covers you for, call the insurer or broker and ask for clarification of the specific point.

Expand  

 

Hahaha... LL - thats quite ridiculous... Call the insurer to have a discussion to covering every eventuality... I know you always take the side of the 'Insurance' to such a degree I suspect you actually work in insurance such is your extent of 'brainwashing'....

"Hahaha... LL - thats quite ridiculous... Call the insurer to have a discussion to covering every eventuality"

From your own link...

"Things to do after you buy this policy
Read it! Cover to cover. Yes, all of it. No surprises or assumptions. Ask World Nomads if you don’t understand what it means".

 

"I suspect you actually work in insurance...".

I do comment rationally about insurance because I did work in an insurance company and also had my own brokerage, hence, I do know what I'm talking about as opposed to all those throwing around false assertions about insurers and how they operate.

Edited February 5 by Liverpool Lou

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

In many policies motorbike coverage is not included at all. Below is the wording of the last policy I had, I had to pay extra for coverage.

 

 

"Motorcycle/Moped riding
Claims involving participation by You (during the Journey) in
motorcycling or moped riding for any purpose are specifically
excluded from this policy.
If You wish to be covered for this activity during Your Journey and
be able to hire a motorcycle (including a moped) as the driver or
a pillion passenger, You must pay an extra premium. Please ask
for a quote.
Even if You pay the extra premium, You will only be covered if:
• the engine capacity is 250cc or less;
• while in control of a motorcycle or moped You hold a valid
Australian motorcycle licence or Australian motor vehicle
driver licence;
• while You are a passenger the driver holds a valid licence for
riding that vehicle;
• You are wearing a helmet;
• You are not participating in a Professional capacity;
• You are not racing; and
• You are not participating in motocross.
Note: No cover will apply under Section 17 Personal Liability. This
means You are responsible to pay costs associated with damage
to the motorcycle, moped or property or injury to another person"

 

Thats nice and clear... 

 

My policy is a little more convoluted...  as it also involves 'residence'...

I've taken insurance out stating I am resident in Thailand - (as thats where I live).

I have  Thai Motorcycle License.

I don't have a UK Motorcycle License. 

 

The Policy refers to home license...

[You must also have a valid licence at home for the class of motorised vehicle you may be renting.]

 

Thus, I wonder if the underwriter could argue that the UK is my 'home' as I don't have a resident visa (non-Immigrant) for Thailand and thus I am not actually covered to rent a motorcycle.

 

 

When getting down to the finer details - its difficult for specifics to be clearly understood or known and there always seems to be 'wiggle room' unless these very detailed details are ironed out. which takes months of back and forth and is anyone really going to go that far ?... I did once and it was a real headache.

 

(its moot as I don't plan on renting a motorcycle overseas)