Solar Power is cheap and it’s going to get even cheaper very soon.

[GammaGlobulin]

Here is an even dumber question:

 

I don't care about storage, per se:

All I care about is installing about 2-thousand watts of solar generation, at peak sun exposure, so that I can partially power my ACs.

I care most about having the least initial expenditure for solar panels that will do the job.

My only motivation is to use solar to supplement what I will use from the grid, and thereby reduce my monthly power bill.

 

So then, what might be the best panel to buy.

And, what about installation cost?

 

And, would such a system potentially damage electric appliances in use in the house, such as ACs and desktop PCs, etc.?

 

So, I guess I cannot do without a Hybrid Inverter...

And that will add cost, even though I need to do this on the cheap.

 

 

[KhunLA]

36 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Here is an even dumber question:

 

I don't care about storage, per se:

All I care about is installing about 2-thousand watts of solar generation, at peak sun exposure, so that I can partially power my ACs.

I care most about having the least initial expenditure for solar panels that will do the job.

My only motivation is to use solar to supplement what I will use from the grid, and thereby reduce my monthly power bill.

 

So then, what might be the best panel to buy.

And, what about installation cost?

 

And, would such a system potentially damage electric appliances in use in the house, such as ACs and desktop PCs, etc.?

 

So, I guess I cannot do without a Hybrid Inverter...

And that will add cost, even though I need to do this on the cheap.

You can get a 5kW system installed for about 150k baht, I think.  Cheaper if DIY. That would easily handle most of you AC, provided the run fairly efficient, inverters hopefully.  Ours draw very little once temperature is reached.

 

Won't damage your electronics, and quite the opposite, providing steady current, unlike the fluctuating grid.

[GammaGlobulin]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You can get a 5kW system installed for about 150k baht, I think.  Cheaper if DIY. That would easily handle most of you AC, provided the run fairly efficient, inverters hopefully.  Ours draw very little once temperature is reached.

 

Won't damage your electronics, and quite the opposite, providing steady current, unlike the fluctuating grid.

 

I really have to find a cheaper solution than the one you suggest.

The reason is that I do not own the house I live in, but just rent.

Therefore, I cannot justify anything that will not pay for itself quickly.

Or, of course, I might think about a portable system, if there even is such a thing.

 

Why can't I just buy 2000 watts of solar panels, PLUS an inverter, and then just be satisfied with that?

 

My ACs run 24/7.

I have 3 ACs.  Total power required when operating at maximum is about 4500 watts.  So, if I am getting 2000 watts from the solar panels during peak solar exposure, this should be enough to lower my monthly electric bill.  (Or, this is what I had thought, anyway.)

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

I really have to find a cheaper solution than the one you suggest.

The reason is that I do not own the house I live in, but just rent.

Therefore, I cannot justify anything that will not pay for itself quickly.

Or, of course, I might think about a portable system, if there even is such a thing.

 

Why can't I just buy 2000 watts of solar panels, PLUS an inverter, and then just be satisfied with that?

 

My ACs run 24/7.

I have 3 ACs.  Total power required when operating at maximum is about 4500 watts.  So, if I am getting 2000 watts during peak solar exposure, this should be enough to lower my monthly electric bill.  (Or, this is what I had thought, anyway.)In

Installed for less that 150k is going to be a challenge.  DIY, would be a lot cheaper.  You need 10 to 20 panels, depending on quality (300w to 540w/ours), and inverter, and few other bits & bobs.

 

DIY ... Panels would cost about ~50k, I think, and inverters, ~20k,.  Don't think you can find cheaper than that.  If you could get the panels installed on the cheap, by who you purchased them from, than most of the job is done.  Someone posted on a thread, that they just bought, and seller had them installed.

[GammaGlobulin]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Installed for less that 150k is going to be a challenge.  DIY, would be a lot cheaper.  You need 10 to 20 panels, depending on quality (300w to 540w/ours), and inverter, and few other bits & bobs.

 

DIY ... Panels would cost about ~50k, I think, and inverters, ~20k,.  Don't think you can find cheaper than that.  If you could get the panels installed on the cheap, by who you purchased them from, than most of the job is done.  Someone posted on a thread, that they just bought, and seller had them installed.

 

Thanks for the info.

I will continue to look into this possibility.

If I were able to install solar, even a limited solution, then I could run the ACs until my heart's content.

I have enough cooling capacity to keep the temps inside at about 21  or  22 degrees, even on the hottest of days, .....I think.

Total cooling capacity I have now: 62000 BTU

 

I just don't want to pay for all that cooling, and so I keep the temps higher than 22, and only cool the bedroom down to 20...at night.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I just don't want to pay for all that cooling, and so I keep the temps higher than 22, and only cool the bedroom down to 20...at night.

If not planning on using the grid at night, then you need a battery, and that's going to jack the price up considerably.   We use 6-8kWh overnight, 14 hrs of non solar production.  Just the bedroom, AC (13k BTU), laptop & 65" TV, for 6 ish hours, then 8 hrs more of AC & the frigs of course.  So unless running the meter backward, to supplement night time use, you'll need 10kWh of battery.   Not exactly cheap.

[GammaGlobulin]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If not planning on using the grid at night, then you need a battery, and that's going to jack the price up considerably.   We use 6-8kWh overnight, 14 hrs of non solar production.  Just the bedroom, AC (13k BTU), laptop & 65" TV, for 6 ish hours, then 8 hrs more of AC & the frigs of course.  So unless running the meter backward, to supplement night time use, you'll need 10kWh of battery.   Not exactly cheap.

 

Of course, I do intend using power supplied by the local power company....

And, I will use power from the local power company anytime it is needed to cover my electric power requirements at any time there is a shortfall in what is being generated from solar panels.

I will not be running the meter backward, probably, since I will be, in most cases, using more power than the solar panels will generate, at any given time.

Maybe, during the Cold Season, I will sometimes be generating from solar panels (2000 watts) more than I will be drawing to run 2 refrigerators, 2 air purifiers, 3 ACs, and 3 PCs... But I doubt that this will often be the case.

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

39 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If not planning on using the grid at night, then you need a battery, and that's going to jack the price up considerably.   We use 6-8kWh overnight, 14 hrs of non solar production.  Just the bedroom, AC (13k BTU), laptop & 65" TV, for 6 ish hours, then 8 hrs more of AC & the frigs of course.  So unless running the meter backward, to supplement night time use, you'll need 10kWh of battery.   Not exactly cheap.

 

It seems that some fraction of people who wish to install solar power are sort of in the PREPPER category.

 

They are most interested in making a political statement, or in preparing for Armageddon, and are therefore PURISTS whose goal is to cut themselves completely from the public electrical grid.

 

I am NOT of this Camp, for sure.

In my opinion, this type of PREPPER Movement is extremely juvenile and shortsighted.

This Prepper Movement has become evermore popular as the average citizen increasingly feels himself to be "not in control", or to be losing control in our world which continues to become more and more complex and technologically based.

 

PREPPING provides the average Joe Blow with a feeling that he is regaining control over his world, his environment, and, most importantly, his life.

Unfortunately, Joe Blow continues to lose the control he cherishes, bit by bit, as it is chipped away by our interconnected world.

Poor Joe Blow, he had such pride in his Individualism, which, he now realizes, was a Myth, all along.

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

It seems that some fraction of people who wish to install solar power are sort of in the PREPPER category.

 

With solar you are purchasing your electricity forward. In my case after six years,  power for my house,  2 EVs and an electric motorbike is free. There is the added benefit of not having powercuts but that wasn’t my primary motivation. 

 

With your solar problem, if you ground mount your panels you could more easily take them with you when you leave your rental.

For “whole house” solar the grid is connected to the inverter which then powers the house from Solar first then the grid. Unfortunately these “whole house” inverters tend to be more expensive and start at about 3.5kW. You need to select a “Hybrid Off-grid” inverter. This is the one I have and they make a 3.5kW version (SPF-3500-ES) You will need to ensure that you meet the minimum requirements for the inverter which might mean buying more panels than you planned to.

 

 

 

Alternatively you could buy a small cheap 2kW inverter and use it to power a portable aircon.

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

With your solar problem, if you ground mount your panels you could more easily take them with you when you leave your rental.

 

Thank you.

Yes, and I really need to more seriously consider the solar option for myself, especially if, as is pointed out by the OP, cost of entry for solar will continue to decline.

 

[Bandersnatch]

19 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Thank you.

Yes, and I really need to more seriously consider the solar option for myself, especially if, as is pointed out by the OP, cost of entry for solar will continue to decline.

 

 

Apparently the OP purchased a solar panel at the weekend from his local SolarShop for a solar pond pump project.

660Watts for ฿3,890 that’s only ฿5.89 per Watt. You would only need 3 panels to reach your goal of 2kW

 

[GammaGlobulin]

I have another dumb question:

 

Why are some solar power enthusiasts so rigidly gungho and bent upon the goal of removing themselves from the GRID?

 

It's almost as if this was their religion, or something, like No-Grid-Good, and Some-Grid-Bad.

 

In fact, it seems to me, that it is far better to continue to improve the grid, and to upgrade the grid, as soon as possible.

 

The more people generating solar, locally and individually, the more we will all benefit as part of the social whole, collectively, if we are all connected to the grid.

 

Feed the Grid, should be the Mantra, and not .... Off-Grid Good.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Apparently the OP purchased a solar panel at the weekend from his local SolarShop for a solar pond pump project.

660Watts for ฿3,890 that’s only ฿5.89 per Watt. You would only need 3 panels to reach your goal of 2kW

 

Thank you, once again.

 

 

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have another dumb question:

 

Why are some solar power enthusiasts so rigidly gungho and bent upon the goal of removing themselves from the GRID?

 

It's almost as if this was their religion, or something, like No-Grid-Good, and Some-Grid-Bad.

 

In fact, it seems to me, that it is far better to continue to improve the grid, and to upgrade the grid, as soon as possible.

 

The more people generating solar, locally and individually, the more we will all benefit as part of the social whole, collectively, if we are all connected to the grid.

 

Feed the Grid, should be the Mantra, and not .... Off-Grid Good

I can be costly and time consuming to get on the payback system of PEA/MEA.   At present, they aren't giving you much for your electric.   Along with having to use their approved components/inverters, which people may or may not have.  We don't, as Deye 8kW isn't, although the 5kW is on their approved list.  Which is not enough to run our house.  Only the 10kW is approved for 3 phase, which we don't really need or want.

 

If we had two 5kw inverters instead of the 8kW inverter, then I wouldn't bother being connected to the grid.  Having redundancy, just incase one has an oops.

 

No worries for ฿27 a month to be connected, it seems silly not to be.    Besides, there is the rare time, that I'll use the wall charger for the car (7.4kWh), which the solar system couldn't handle.

 

I just hate monopolies, and have no real need for PEA, or petrol stations.   The feeling of independence is pretty cool also 

[Ben Zioner]

Ok, I'll sit on the fence for another couple of years. Honestly I won't move for anything that has more than five years payback. My other big problem is that with my current consumption I'll need 45 panels and I have not usable space for that number.

[Bandersnatch]

26 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

with my current consumption I'll need 45 panels and I have not usable space for that number.

 

I have just posted a 660W panel for ฿3,890

 

Do you really need 30kW of solar? What is your PEA bill per month?

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

56 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Why are some solar power enthusiasts so rigidly gungho and bent upon the goal of removing themselves from the GRID?

 

It's almost as if this was their religion, or something, like No-Grid-Good, and Some-Grid-Bad.

 

I am off-grid (no meter) can you name any others on aseannow? It’s actually pretty rare.

 

Dealing with PEA is a colossal pain in the butt.

 

I was “off-grid” (no units used) with a meter for 5 years. PEA did 4 solar inspections, accused me or turning my meter backwards (to exactly the same meter reading each month) and replaced my meter 5 times claiming that my no export solar system had broken their meter which they wanted to charge me for.

 

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

it seems to me, that it is far better to continue to improve the grid, and to upgrade the grid, as soon as possible.

 

The more people generating solar, locally and individually, the more we will all benefit as part of the social whole, collectively, if we are all connected to the grid.

 

Feed the Grid, should be the Mantra, and not .... Off-Grid Good.

 

I am not allowed to share my power to the grid as any solar system is over 5kW and is consider too powerful to feedback unless I upgrade to a 3 phase connection at the cost of ฿100,000

 

This video might help explain my decision

 

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

28 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I am off-grid (no meter) can you name any others on aseannow? It’s actually pretty rare.

 

Dealing with PEA is a colossal pain in the butt.

 

I was “off-grid” (no units used) with a meter for 5 years. PEA did 4 solar inspections, accused me or turning my meter backwards (to exactly the same meter reading each month) and replaced my meter 5 times claiming that my no export solar system had broken their meter which they wanted to charge me for.

 

 

I am not allowed to share my power to the grid as any solar system is over 5kW and is consider too powerful to feedback unless I upgrade to a 3 phase connection at the cost of ฿100,000

 

This video might help explain my decision

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very interesting, and I learned something here.

 

[steve187]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:57 AM, sungod said:

thanks, Dumb question time, what can I run with a battery that size?

 

What would the installation cost be?

i have a 9 x 570w deye 5kwh system with a 240ah battery which charges to about 9.5kwh,

pv system supplies house power all day from 7.15am also charges the battery, with extra electric to run a/c from midday until 3.30/4pm,

at tyhe moment the battery lasts (with a/c from 8pm til 4am,) until the early hours, when we use about 4units from grid until solar starts producing again at about 7.15am,

so a total of 22 units used per day and out of that paying for about 4 units to pea

cost of install 160.000thb

 

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

i have a 9 x 570w deye 5kwh system with a 240ah battery which charges to about 9.5kwh,

pv system supplies house power all day from 7.15am also charges the battery, with extra electric to run a/c from midday until 3.30/4pm,

at tyhe moment the battery lasts (with a/c from 8pm til 4am,) until the early hours, when we use about 4units from grid until solar starts producing again at about 7.15am,

so a total of 22 units used per day and out of that paying for about 4 units to pea

cost of install 160.000thb

 

@Bandersnatch My needs a 3 to 4 times that of Steve. Average daily 70 units, so peak is probably somewhere near 100.

[Bandersnatch]

34 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

@Bandersnatch My needs a 3 to 4 times that of Steve. Average daily 70 units, so peak is probably somewhere near 100.

 

Yes that is high, more that me and I’m running a 450m2 house and 2 EVs

 

[KhunLA]

53 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

@Bandersnatch My needs a 3 to 4 times that of Steve. Average daily 70 units, so peak is probably somewhere near 100.

We're light weights compared to you guys, as we've only hit 50kwh, barely, for the day, a few times.  And only broke 1000kWh for the month, maybe 2X, and probably will this month.   Though a few months, we were O&A 10 ish days.   it would be rare that we'd break 1000kWh a month consistently.

 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

5 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Yes that is high, more that me and I’m running a 450m2 house and 2 EVs

 

Well, I have about 50000 BTU running 7/24, plus some other stuff. But I am on tri phase and I would like to find a clever guy to balance the load which is probably all over the place.

[HighPriority]

I’m a medium sized South American country, how many panels do I need ?

 

 

 

 

🤣

[Muhendis]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:05 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

I have another dumb question:

 

Why are some solar power enthusiasts so rigidly gungho and bent upon the goal of removing themselves from the GRID?

 

It's almost as if this was their religion, or something, like No-Grid-Good, and Some-Grid-Bad.

 

In fact, it seems to me, that it is far better to continue to improve the grid, and to upgrade the grid, as soon as possible.

 

The more people generating solar, locally and individually, the more we will all benefit as part of the social whole, collectively, if we are all connected to the grid.

 

Feed the Grid, should be the Mantra, and not .... Off-Grid Good.

 

 

 

Ha Ha Ha

 

It does seem like some sort of fanaticism but in my case I went off grid because my house was built 1km from the nearest electric post. This meant having a temporary or construction supply.

This temporary supply voltage fluctuated down to below 180v as the village woke up every morning and if someone decided to do a bit of arc welding then we could well have been down to 50v.

 

Solar was the only option worth looking at for me because I have a certain expertise in things electronic. 

 

Good job I went solar too because I had to wait 7 years from application, for a permanent PEA supply. The permanent supply is about 4 Baht/unit whereas the temporary supply was about 8 Baht/unit.

I still have my PEA connected but it was relegated to backup once I had my solar up and running.

[KhunLA]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:05 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

I have another dumb question:

 

Why are some solar power enthusiasts so rigidly gungho and bent upon the goal of removing themselves from the GRID?

As stated earlier, no real need to be 'off' the grid, as only cost 27 baht to have, JIC.  But if I had redundancy with 2 inverters instead of one, doubt if I'd stay connected.

 

2 reasons for solar ... I posted today ... 

Last year / 2023, saved 34.8k baht w/Solar vs PEA

https://aseannow.com/topic/1268214-solar-8kw-hybrid-inverter-w10kwh-upgraded-to-20kwh-in-sept-2022-essbattery-not-diy/page/10/#comment-18881804

 

Petrol would cost me 55k baht a year (20k kms of local driving) with today's 91 price of 39.28 baht per Liter.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1246109-ice-vs-ev-the-debate-thread/page/56/#comment-18882728

 

 34.8

 55  

 ฿89.8k ... direct savings from having solar 

 ฿445k ... cost of Solar system = <5 year ROI

 

[Denim]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:36 AM, sirineou said:

would I be safe to assume  that you could not run A?C overnight with that battery then? 

 

Which is about the only thing I would want it for. Already have cheap solar lights ( garden type ) in every room so interior lighting sorted. Cook with gas, mains water ( no pump ), watch movies on tablet , so the only thing we would miss without grid power is our 13,000 btu air con , which recently has been going about 20 hours a day.

[Muhendis]

On 4/29/2024 at 10:05 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

The more people generating solar, locally and individually, the more we will all benefit as part of the social whole, collectively, if we are all connected to the grid.

 

Feed the Grid, should be the Mantra, and not .... Off-Grid Good.

 

I agree with this idea it is something that could be done with a little support from the national government.

 

We are a village of 200 or so houses. If each house were to generate something like 8kW AC this power could be connected to a local, village grid.

Nighttime power could come from each house battery bank of 36kW. In effect, the village would be it's own mini grid.

Another idea could be to have a dedicated area for a solar farm complete with industrial size generator of 1.6MW, a container full of flow batteries and a few powerful inverters.

 

Never gonna happen though.

 

The government is the majority shareholder in PEA and likes to see massive Mega bucks coming in every week.

[lom]

45 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

The government is the majority shareholder in PEA and likes to see massive Mega bucks coming in every week.

They are the sole owner of EGAT which generates the electricity and distributes it through PEA/MEA.

I have this sneaky feeling that EGAT is not interested in any kind of competition no matter how small it is and that they dictate where PEA/MEA should get their electricity from.

 

[Startmeup]

How can solar get cheaper when wages are rising everywhere and the input costs (inflation) to build solar panels are alot higher now than last year? Solar/inverters and commodity prices will be going up if anything imo.