Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

So I ask AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, what would be your suggested solution?

 

  I do not think that the Palestinians should be rewarded in any shape or form to the Oct 7 th attack .

No concessions or favours or anything or discussions of why they did it or how to stop it happening again .

   They committed appalling atrocities and bringing the perpetrators to justice should be the only current concern .

   Any talk of giving the Palestinians anything  is a victory for them , a benefit form the October 7 th terror attack .

   The only solution that needs to found is a solution to bring the terrorists to justice .

Offering Palestinians a victory in regarding giving  them concessions isn't a solution to the problem 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

One man's 'vile creatures' are another man's 'freedom fighters'.

 

Well, we know who your freedom fighters are, don't we, the vile creatures that started all this............😬

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

These are civilian hostages, not prisoners of war. They should be released unconditionally and immediately as it is an ongoing war crime to keep them captive.  The poor women are no doubt being raped by the vile creatures that took them from their homes, and the disposable gender will no doubt have suffered various forms torture.  

 

A ceasefire will be seen as a victory for Hamas, an opportunity to regroup and re-arm so they can inflict further atrocities on Isreal.  

 

Just as vile is the indiscriminate bombing of civilians with wide area high explosive bombs, attacking aid convoys leading to starving children and the litany of war crimes and acts of genocide that Israel is credibly accused of.

 

It says a lot that the zionists on this board refuse to condemn those war crimes and sometimes even openly defend them while making overtly racist comments.

 

What we see time and time again on these threads is members who see both sides of the argument and condemn both sides while the other side simply defend Israeli war crimes. What we don't see is anyone who one sidedly defends Hamas terrorism.

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you condone what Israel are doing, for example shooting at large crowds desperate for food this week?

While you are obviously biased, being Israeli, and I'm not blaming you, both sides are responsible for peace and the establishment of a two-state solution, violations and breaches have occurred on both sides. Blaming one party while absolving the other of any wrongdoing only perpetuates the cycle of violence and hinders the prospects for a just and lasting resolution to the conflict.

Here are examples of instances where Israel also breached agreements:

Settlement Expansion: Despite commitments to freeze settlement construction in the occupied territories, Israel has consistently expanded its settlements, which are considered illegal under international law. These actions undermine the territorial integrity and viability of a future Palestinian state.

Military Actions: Israel has conducted military operations in Gaza and the West Bank, resulting in civilian casualties and infrastructure damage. While Israel often cites security concerns, the scale and intensity of these operations have raised international concerns about proportionality and adherence to humanitarian law.

Resource Control: Israel maintains control over key resources such as water and land in the occupied territories, limiting Palestinian access and development. This control exacerbates economic disparities and impedes the establishment of a viable Palestinian state.

Jerusalem Status: The status of Jerusalem remains a contentious issue in negotiations. Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem and its declaration of Jerusalem as its capital have been widely criticized by the international community and undermine efforts to reach a negotiated settlement.

Blockades and Restrictions: Israel imposes restrictions on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip, exacerbating humanitarian conditions and hindering economic development. The blockade has been described by human rights organizations as a form of collective punishment against the civilian population.

And examples of violation of agreements by the Palestinians, does AI have that to?

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

One man's 'vile creatures' are another man's 'freedom fighters'.

 

Only an apologist would try to compare what those creatures did as freedom fighters

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"The US leadership may change as will the Israeli leadership in the not too distant future."
I certainly hope not, and for reasons more important to me than Israel or Palestine.

"Its going to be a hard enough task to bring some sort of peace now and that cannot start till all hostages are released."
I don't see ALL hostages being released until after a PERMANENT ceasefire, which, of course, will have to be enforced by some third party.

The Hamas narrative 

[Rimmer]

A flame and the replies quoting it have been removed

[Neeranam]

59 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

These are civilian hostages, not prisoners of war. They should be released unconditionally and immediately as it is an ongoing war crime to keep them captive.  The poor women are no doubt being raped by the vile creatures that took them from their homes, and the disposable gender will no doubt have suffered various forms torture.  

 

A ceasefire will be seen as a victory for Hamas, an opportunity to regroup and re-arm so they can inflict further atrocities on Isreal.  

Do you think the Israeli soldiers who killed over 100 hungry civilians a few days ago 'vile creatures'? I do. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-city-deaths-food-israel-intl/index.html

[James105]

18 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you think the Israeli soldiers who killed over 100 hungry civilians a few days ago 'vile creatures'? I do. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-city-deaths-food-israel-intl/index.html

 

No, not really.  War is a harsh business at the best of times, and the way Hamas go about this with using civilians as human shields and conducting their operations in hospitals etc makes Hamas the vile creatures here.   Hamas are quite happy for their own civilians to be used as collateral damage so they can win the propaganda war and paint Isreal in a bad light.   

 

If Hamas cared about their own people they would surrender unconditionally and return the remaining civilian hostages.  That is a guaranteed path to a ceasefire.  I do not see why I should be required to care more about the citizens of Palestine more than Hamas do.  If you actually cared about them then you would be demanding for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages - have you done that?  I suspect not as this ongoing conflict gives you an opportunity to express your hatred for Jews/Isreal with impunity.   

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

No, not really.  War is a harsh business at the best of times, and the way Hamas go about this with using civilians as human shields and conducting their operations in hospitals etc makes Hamas the vile creatures here.   Hamas are quite happy for their own civilians to be used as collateral damage so they can win the propaganda war and paint Isreal in a bad light.   

 

If Hamas cared about their own people they would surrender unconditionally and return the remaining civilian hostages.  That is a guaranteed path to a ceasefire.  I do not see why I should be required to care more about the citizens of Palestine more than Hamas do.  If you actually cared about them then you would be demanding for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages - have you done that?  I suspect not as this ongoing conflict gives you an opportunity to express your hatred for Jews/Isreal with impunity.   

 

It wasn't a path to a ceasefire for 70 years and it goes nowhere to establishing a Palestinian state, the return of the illegal settlements, the cessation of apartheid and policies ensuring poverty and divisiveness or the return of millions of refugees forced out of their homelands in the largest act of genocide since WW2.

 

Nor does it satisfy the ICJ order to hold prominent Israelis accountable for statements of racial hatred and incitement.

 

Edited March 3 by ozimoron

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

No, not really.  War is a harsh business at the best of times, and the way Hamas go about this with using civilians as human shields and conducting their operations in hospitals etc makes Hamas the vile creatures here.   Hamas are quite happy for their own civilians to be used as collateral damage so they can win the propaganda war and paint Isreal in a bad light.   

 

If Hamas cared about their own people they would surrender unconditionally and return the remaining civilian hostages.  That is a guaranteed path to a ceasefire.  I do not see why I should be required to care more about the citizens of Palestine more than Hamas do.  If you actually cared about them then you would be demanding for Hamas to surrender and return the hostages - have you done that?  I suspect not as this ongoing conflict gives you an opportunity to express your hatred for Jews/Isreal with impunity.   

 

I like Jews, what are you talking about? I say a Jewish prayer every day to thank the Almighty for giving me another day!

Oh, you are one of those who are scared to criticize Israel for fear of being branded antisemitic. 

Were those 100+ civilians human shields? 

Are you Israeli? 

Do you think killing 100 unarmed civilians trying to get food is not a war crime? I really find anyone condoning this atrocity hard to understand. Do you condone it or are you trying to avoid that question? 

Do you think killing people waving white flags is just 'the harsh business of war'?

 

 

[James105]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It wasn't a path to a ceasefire for 70 years and it goes nowhere to establishing a Palestinian state, the return of the illegal settlements, the cessation of apartheid and policies ensuring poverty and divisiveness or the return of millions of refugees forced out of their homelands in the largest act of genocide since WW2.

 

There was a ceasefire in place on October 6th.  What changed that do you think?

[ozimoron]

Just now, James105 said:

There was a ceasefire in place on October 6th.  What changed that do you think?

 

Possibly hundreds of kids being shot dead by the IDF. Refer to my previous posts for reasons that prompted Hamas to commit an act of terrorism.

 

Zionist are desperate to not be held accountable for 70 years of racism and repression of Palestinians.

[James105]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

I like Jews, what are you talking about? I say a Jewish prayer every day to thank the Almighty for giving me another day!

Oh, you are one of those who are scared to criticize Israel for fear of being branded antisemitic. 

Were those 100+ civilians human shields? 

Are you Israeli? 

Do you think killing 100 unarmed civilians trying to get food is not a war crime? I really find anyone condoning this atrocity hard to understand. Do you condone it or are you trying to avoid that question? 

Do you think killing people waving white flags is just 'the harsh business of war'?

 

 

I just do not like terrorists, I do not like the mass rape and slaughter of innocents at a musical festival and whatever it takes to prevent this kind of atrocity from happening again should be done.   

 

I've no affiliation with Isreal.  I typically do not care about what goes on in the middle east but the mass rape and slaughter of innocents on October 7th caught my attention and the "good guys" were not the ones doing the raping and slaughtering that day, that would be the other side which is in this case Isreal.  

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Possibly hundreds of kids being shot dead by the IDF. Refer to my previous posts for reasons that prompted Hamas to commit an act of terrorism.

 

Zionist are desperate to not be held accountable for 70 years of racism and repression of Palestinians.

So you think what Hamas did on October 7 was justified. Noted.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Do you think for one moment that there was a fair solution Israel wouldn't have tried it already? Israel want peace and

quite more than anyone else, is just like i said before, the Palestinians want a lot more than what Israel can give without

sacrificing their security, secondly, those external powers that armed and supported the Palestinians so far will also want

their pound of flesh otherwise why have they wasted all their efforts for nothing,

So unless EVERYBODY IS HAPPY, no lasting peace will be possible, no matter who's right or who's wrong... 

Funny way of having peace and quiet then. Perhaps they want the peace of the graveyard.

 

If you are correct, then israel will never have peace, and will always be afraid of the Palestinians ( with good reason after killing over 30,000 of them ). Small boys will grow up waiting till they are old enough to join whatever organisation is fighting israel. Welcome to the forever war.

 

Israelis should listen to their prophets.

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/sow-wind-reap-whirlwind.html

Hosea 8:7 makes the enigmatic statement, “For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”

Edited March 3 by thaibeachlovers

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

I like Jews, what are you talking about? I say a Jewish prayer every day to thank the Almighty for giving me another day!

Oh, you are one of those who are scared to criticize Israel for fear of being branded antisemitic. 

Were those 100+ civilians human shields? 

Are you Israeli? 

Do you think killing 100 unarmed civilians trying to get food is not a war crime? I really find anyone condoning this atrocity hard to understand. Do you condone it or are you trying to avoid that question? 

Do you think killing people waving white flags is just 'the harsh business of war'?

 

 

You sound like you are certain and clear on exactly what happened. I call B.S.!

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Funny way of having peace and quiet then. Perhaps they want the peace of the graveyard.

 

If you are correct, then israel will never have peace, and will always be afraid of the Palestinians ( with good reason after killing over 30,000 of them ). Small boys will grow up waiting till they are old enough to join whatever organisation is fighting israel. Welcome to the forever war.

 

Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

Maybe better forever war that to stop defending against a force dedicated to murdering all Jews.

You act like the Middle East is like Canada. 

Edited March 3 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

There was a ceasefire in place on October 6th.  What changed that do you think?

Well Hamas did what they have done before. Take actions with no regard whatsover to their own people. Israel cares more about the suffering people of Gaza than Hamas does.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

I just do not like terrorists, I do not like the mass rape and slaughter of innocents at a musical festival and whatever it takes to prevent this kind of atrocity from happening again should be done.   

 

I've no affiliation with Isreal.  I typically do not care about what goes on in the middle east but the mass rape and slaughter of innocents on October 7th caught my attention and the "good guys" were not the ones doing the raping and slaughtering that day, that would be the other side which is in this case Isreal.  

You are not alone, many think the 'war' started on Oct 7 and were shocked, including myself. 

Open-minded followers learned that there were many circumstances leading to this terrible terrorist act. One could call the Israelis terrorists for things done pre-Oct 7. 

Oct 7 did not happen for no reason. 

So, do you condemn the other day, when 100 + unharmed civilians were shot dead? Some here don't which I find disgraceful. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So you think what Hamas did on October 7 was justified. Noted.

 

How many thousand times do I need to condemn the attack before you stop flaming me?

[Keep Right]

No one wants these squatters, not even the Moslem countries.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Keep Right said:

No one wants these squatters, not even the Moslem countries.

 

Rubbish, they don't want to acquiesce to Israeli genocide by displacing a large proportion of the Palestinian population.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Keep Right said:

No one wants these squatters, not even the Moslem countries.

That's an odd thing.

What other people are "refugees" for generations.

Arab American citizens in Michigan still identify as refugees.

It's insane.

Yes the greater Arab world is largely to blame for this. 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

I just do not like terrorists, I do not like the mass rape and slaughter of innocents at a musical festival and whatever it takes to prevent this kind of atrocity from happening again should be done.   

 

I've no affiliation with Isreal.  I typically do not care about what goes on in the middle east but the mass rape and slaughter of innocents on October 7th caught my attention and the "good guys" were not the ones doing the raping and slaughtering that day, that would be the other side which is in this case Isreal.  

There were 2.3 million in Gaza before the israelis killed over 30,000 of them. Are you saying the 10 year old girls that got bombed to death were involved in October 7 and deserved to die, or are you saying all Gazans are terrorists, and deserve to die, or are you saying, oops, 30,000 Gazans should have moved to those safe zones the israelis keep bombing?

 

Either you are OK with killing little children or you are not. It doesn't matter where they live.

 

How many children can the israelis kill before you consider them to be the bad guys? Is it the actions of good guys to fire into a crowd of unarmed people trying to get food because they are starving?

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's an odd thing.

What other people are "refugees" for generations.

Arab American citizens in Michigan still identify as refugees.

It's insane.

Yes the greater Arab world is largely to blame for this. 

Of course, and Israel is as pure as the driven snow.

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You sound like you are certain and clear on exactly what happened. I call B.S.!

Why call BS? It was on CNN and other main news channels. 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

No one wants these squatters, not even the Moslem countries.

The squatters are the illegal israeli settlers stealing Palestinian land, and the Palestinians own the land in the west bank and Gaza, not the israelis.

Do try and get it right

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Of course, and Israel is as pure as the driven snow.

Nobody said that. The conflict is very complicated. The Berkeley Jew hating mob can't grasp that.

[WDSmart]

14 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

No one wants these squatters, not even the Moslem countries.

...and by "squatters," do you mean Palenstians or Isrealis?