Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! Permanent ceasefire (perhaps enforced).
No! I do not want to see either side lose any more than it already has. I want to see them sit down and work out some arrangement of how they can both live together (one-state solution - unlikely) or at least side by side (two-state solution).

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I wouldn't like that at all, but that would be better than killing hundreds, maybe thousands, of them outright like was done in the bombings.

 

   This is a war, people get killed in wars , woman and children get killed in wars , journalists get killed in wars , civilians get killed in wars  ,all kinds on unpleasant things happen in wars . 

   Do you think that wars involving Israel would be different to other wars ?

[WDSmart]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I have never defended the taking of hostages by either side

 

Showing your bias again, only one side takes hostages and just because Biden made one remark on indiscriminate bombing does not make it true or do you believe everything he says when there is evidence to the contrary?

 

A senior Israeli Air Force officer on Wednesday rejected claims that Israel's airstrikes in the Gaza Strip have been indiscriminate, saying it follows careful procedures before hitting each target. “Since the October 7 massacre, the Israeli Air Force has been conducting a precise, focused and process-based campaign

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-gaza-strikes-precise-theres-no-indiscriminate-bombing-but-mistakes-can-happen/

"Hostages" or "prisoners," what's the difference?

I don't base my conclusions on Biden or any one source. Many sources call the bombings "indiscriminate." And...

If the IDF says the bombings were not Indiscriminate but precise and focussed, that makes their killing of tens of thousands of civilians even the more despicable! 

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

To repeat nonsens does not make it more true. There never was a Palestine in history. So called Palestinians are arabs, nothing else.

Rubbish. The Romans called it Syria Palaestina, and the British referred to the area as Palestine.

Yes, they are Arabs and they live in Palestine.

Trying to deflect does not change the fact that Gaza was not included in the 1948 UN designated area for israel. Israel has no legal right to it.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

They're not calling for eradication and elimination of the Palestinian nation, only the terrorists, sent by other nations,

any government that will rule Israel will do pretty much the same to protect and safe guard Israel from a

destruction as Israel is now fighting on several fronts, some bordering it and some far away , and there're

and no matter no what government will rule Israel, there's always be those who don't want Jews/Israel in this world...

Yes they are. 

Israel should have accepted the land they were given and not continually steal Palestinian land, this is the cause of resent against Israel. And, it has nothing to do with them being Jewish. 

[WDSmart]

37 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

It's not a question of nationality it's one of humanity. If there's a genocide happening in Gaza, Egypt should open it's border for refugees. Any idea why they are not willing to?

 

Yes, easily.

 

I'm talking about Gaza, not West Bank.

 

To repeat nonsens does not make it more true. There never was a Palestine in history. So called Palestinians are arabs, nothing else.

 

They don't do the same. As far as I know there are no phosphor- and cluster bombs used by the IDF.

All your arguments about immigrating elsewhere could also apply to the Israelis. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

Australia resumes funding for UNRWA and pledges more Gaza aid | AP News

 

Israel’s campaign against UNRWA is in tatters. The entire world has woken up to the conspiracy against the plight of Gaza and the malicious attempt to shut down UNRWA.

 

Australia is now following Sweden, Canada and many other countries in resuming UNRWA funding.

 

The Israeli goal was to make life miserable for the war surviving hungry /sick refugees in an effort to drive them out of Gaza.

 

Israel’s plan has failed spectacularly in a matter of weeks.    

That plan failed but they are doing quite well in stopping most aid getting in. Vile and despicable actions.

[ozimoron]

My position has fundamentally changed here. As long as Israel continues to deny humanitarian aid to Palestinians and use famine as a weapon of war while continuing to drive them out out Gaza I don't believe they deserve their own country any more than any other nation committing genocide.  Israeli leadership is lower than a snakes belly.

 

Israeli diplomats have pre-emptively attacked the findings of two inquires into the role of the United Nations Palestinian refugee agency, Unrwa, in Gaza, on the day that one of the inquiries submitted its interim finding to the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres.

Israeli diplomats in London hit out at both investigations on Wednesday, vowing that Israel would never let the agency back into Gaza regardless of the outcomes. One Israeli diplomatic source said: “A double game has been played by Hamas and Unrwa, so much so that Unrwa is a Hamas strategic asset.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/20/israel-will-ignore-findings-of-inquiries-into-unrwa-in-gaza-say-diplomats

 

 

 

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! Permanent ceasefire (perhaps enforced).
No! I do not want to see either side lose any more than it already has. I want to see them sit down and work out some arrangement of how they can both live together (one-state solution - unlikely) or at least side by side (two-state solution).

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

Okay, then what is your suggested solution? 

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   This is a war, people get killed in wars , woman and children get killed in wars , journalists get killed in wars , civilians get killed in wars  ,all kinds on unpleasant things happen in wars . 

   Do you think that wars involving Israel would be different to other wars ?

It could be, if Israel wanted to be different.

[Danny Australia]

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lies, about time you stopped with the claim that 30k civilians have been killed. 

 

You are right for once; not true 30,000 civilians have been killed.

The number is much higher than 30,000 since thousands are still buried under the rubble of destroyed buildings and thus have not been officially accounted for.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, WDSmart said:

It could be, if Israel wanted to be different.

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

 

You've been asked repeatedly whether YOU support a Palestinian state and never respond directly while continuing to make this false assertion.

 

For me, it's two states or no state. Netanyahu and his war criminal cabal should face the ICC, along with Hamas leadership. All of them are oxygen thieves.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Okay, then what is your suggested solution? 

 

   They both cannot live together , so there will either be a never ending war or one side has to go .

Then the other side can live peacefully 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

You've been asked repeatedly whether YOU support a Palestinian state and never respond directly while continuing to make this false assertion.

Why should I respond?

I'm not Israeli or Palestinian or a US negotiator and my personal opinion on that means nothing.

I think it's the business of the parties involved, and like I said NEITHER side wants two states.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You are right for once; not true 30,000 civilians have been killed.

The number is much higher than 30,000 since thousands are still buried under the rubble of destroyed buildings and thus have not been officially accounted for.

Nonsense. Out of that figure 30k more than 13,000 are Hamas terrorists who were killed

[Danny Australia]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

 May be because it's the only/last occupying power on earth and the only entity that has killed so many civilians in a short period of time.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

Perhaps because they were moral and valued the lives of ALL people?  You think? 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why should I respond?

I'm not Israeli or Palestinian or a US negotiator and my personal opinion on that means nothing.

I think it's the business of the parties involved, and like I said NEITHER side wants two states.

 

Because it would demonstrate that you have a reasonable point of view. The notion that the Palestinians don't want their own state is patently BS.

 

Palestinians now have good reason to oppose an Israeli state. Using famine as a weapon is inexcusable.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

Because Jew haters think Jews should be bound by a different standard.  Such people also criticized when Jews were too passive as in WW2. You can't win with Jew haters. Thus, the IDF does what it needs to do regardless.

[Danny Australia]

Canada stops arms shipments to Israel (lemonde.fr)

 

Israel’s closest allies are beginning to distance themselves from the plausible genocide in Gaza by halting arms shipment to Israel.

 

This while at the same time resuming UNRWA funding and increasing humanitarian aid to Gaza out of feeling of guilt.  Canada is now following Spain and Beljium to name a few.

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They both cannot live together , so there will either be a never ending war or one side has to go .

Then the other side can live peacefully 

 

I agree with you, but there could be a two-state solution, like the one the UN proposed in 1947/8. I would support that. Of course, I don't live in either place and don't ever intend to go there. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Because it would demonstrate that you have a reasonable point of view. The notion that the Palestinians don't want their own state is patently BS.

 

Palestinians now have good reason to oppose an Israeli state. Using famine as a weapon is inexcusable.

 

 

 

 

Of course the Palestinians want their own state -- with Israel gone!

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Because Jew haters think Jews should be bound by a different standard.  Such people also criticized when Jews were too passive as in WW2. You can't win with Jew haters. Thus, the IDF does what it needs to do regardless.

 

That's right, hide behind religion as an excuse to avoid acknowledging the obvious.

[Jingthing]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

That's right, hide behind religion as an excuse to avoid acknowledging the obvious.

Not religion. Ethnicity.

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nonsense. Out of that figure 30k more than 13,000 are Hamas terrorists who were killed

And, what is the value of 13,000 Hamas terrorists? Do they have less value than one Jewish child hostage? 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Of course the Palestinians want their own state -- with Israel gone!

 

Understandable. After ww2 everyone wanted the nazis gone. Not Germany, but the nazi leadership.

[transam]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I agree with you, but there could be a two-state solution, like the one the UN proposed in 1947/8. I would support that. Of course, I don't live in either place and don't ever intend to go there. 

"You would support that", who are you....?......🤔      

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not religion. Ethnicity.

 

Religion. You invoked the name of their religion. No ethnicity is a religion.

 

And, for the record, I oppose any theocracy.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Perhaps because they were moral and valued the lives of ALL people?  You think? 

 

   Its nothing to do with morals or intent . During war situations in public areas, the public will get caught up in the conflict and become causalities , especially if one side hides behind the civilians in public buildings