5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Hamas doesn't kill 30,000 civilians. The IDF does, and some of those are babies. 

Gaza death toll: More than 30,000 killed since Israel-Hamas war began, health ministry says | CNN

 

   How would you feel if Israel went around Gaza , taking all the babies they could find , took them back to Israel and offered to swap those babies for the Israeli baby hostage ?

   Those would be similar tactics as Hamas 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't see what's happening in Gaza as literally genocide, and I don't believe that Israel has genocidal intentions towards Arabs as Hamas, etc. has genocidal intentions towards Jews. HOWEVER, there is no doubt that there is a humanitarian disaster happening there. You can share the blame between Hamas who started this current war and uses their own people as human shields and Israel who is trying to crush Hamas and can't avoid the tragic consequences to civilians, but it's still real and horrible whatever you call it. So definitely much more needs to be done to address the suffering in Gaza but it's still not reasonable to demand that Israel surrender to Hamas.

Fully agree.

The question is how Israel can defend itself against Hamas terrorists using civilians as human shields and hiding in hospitals.

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

Australia resumes funding for UNRWA and pledges more Gaza aid | AP News

 

Israel’s campaign against UNRWA is in tatters. The entire world has woken up to the conspiracy against the plight of Gaza and the malicious attempt to shut down UNRWA.

 

Australia is now following Sweden, Canada and many other countries in resuming UNRWA funding.

 

The Israeli goal was to make life miserable for the war surviving hungry /sick refugees in an effort to drive them out of Gaza.

 

Israel’s plan has failed spectacularly in a matter of weeks.    

And, previously I've speculated that this might have been the Hamas goal when it made its Oct 7 terrorist attack. 

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Hamas doesn't kill 30,000 civilians. The IDF does, and some of those are babies. 

Gaza death toll: More than 30,000 killed since Israel-Hamas war began, health ministry says | CNN

Neither does Israel, you have listened to the Terrorist propaganda and put 2 + 2 together and made 5, because you don't do reality. Hamas has definitely manipulated those figures with great emphasis on "women and children" to garnish the sympathy vote and out of those "30,000 how many are actual terrorists, at a guess.....a great deal!

Hamas want dead Gazans, it looks better on their CVs, the more dead the more the world gives them sympathy.

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't see what's happening in Gaza as literally genocide, and I don't believe that Israel has genocidal intentions towards Arabs as Hamas, etc. has genocidal intentions towards Jews. HOWEVER, there is no doubt that there is a humanitarian disaster happening there. You can share the blame between Hamas who started this current war and uses their own people as human shields and Israel who is trying to crush Hamas and can't avoid the tragic consequences to civilians, but it's still real and horrible whatever you call it. So definitely much more needs to be done to address the suffering in Gaza but it's still not reasonable to demand that Israel surrender to Hamas.

No one is calling for Israel to surrender to Hamas! All we are asking for is a permanent ceasefire (possibly being enforced by a UN peacekeeping force), an exchange of hostages/prisoners, and a beginning of talks on how to create either a one-state (fantasy) or two-state solution that is agreeable to both parties.

Just now, WDSmart said:

No one is calling for Israel to surrender to Hamas! All we are asking for is a permanent ceasefire (possibly being enforced by a UN peacekeeping force), an exchange of hostages/prisoners, and a beginning of talks on how to create either a one-state (fantasy) or two-state solution that is agreeable to both parties.

Permanent ceasefire!?!

You're tripping.

Hamas needs to be crushed first. Israel needs to win. You clearly want them to lose.

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I've always referred to the Oct 7 attack as a "terrorist" attack and the indiscriminate (random, not targeting specific buildings or areas) of Gaza as despicable, and I have never defended the taking of hostages by either side or prisoners by either side. You are mistaking my acknowledgment of the reason Hamas and IDF use for doing such things as biased (antisemite). It's not. It's a two-way street, and I see both sides. You and your pro-(censored) cronies are the ones who only see one side of the street.

I have never defended the taking of hostages by either side

 

Showing your bias again, only one side takes hostages and just because Biden made one remark on indiscriminate bombing does not make it true or do you believe everything he says when there is evidence to the contrary?

 

A senior Israeli Air Force officer on Wednesday rejected claims that Israel's airstrikes in the Gaza Strip have been indiscriminate, saying it follows careful procedures before hitting each target. “Since the October 7 massacre, the Israeli Air Force has been conducting a precise, focused and process-based campaign

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-gaza-strikes-precise-theres-no-indiscriminate-bombing-but-mistakes-can-happen/

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Hamas doesn't kill 30,000 civilians. The IDF does, and some of those are babies. 

Gaza death toll: More than 30,000 killed since Israel-Hamas war began, health ministry says | CNN

Okay, would you believe 20,000? Or 10,000? Either of those is horrible.

9 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I've always referred to the Oct 7 attack as a "terrorist" attack and the indiscriminate (random, not targeting specific buildings or areas) of Gaza as despicable, and I have never defended the taking of hostages by either side or prisoners by either side. You are mistaking my acknowledgment of the reason Hamas and IDF use for doing such things as biased (antisemite). It's not. It's a two-way street, and I see both sides. You and your pro-(censored) cronies are the ones who only see one side of the street.

You didn't in the post I referred to, just an obvious dig at those that are going to finish what Hamas started...

10 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   How would you feel if Israel went around Gaza , taking all the babies they could find , took them back to Israel and offered to swap those babies for the Israeli baby hostage ?

   Those would be similar tactics as Hamas 

I wouldn't like that at all, but that would be better than killing hundreds, maybe thousands, of them outright like was done in the bombings.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Permanent ceasefire!?!

You're tripping.

Hamas needs to be crushed first. Israel needs to win. You clearly want them to lose.

Yes! Permanent ceasefire (perhaps enforced).
No! I do not want to see either side lose any more than it already has. I want to see them sit down and work out some arrangement of how they can both live together (one-state solution - unlikely) or at least side by side (two-state solution).

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! Permanent ceasefire (perhaps enforced).
No! I do not want to see either side lose any more than it already has. I want to see them sit down and work out some arrangement of how they can both live together (one-state solution - unlikely) or at least side by side (two-state solution).

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I wouldn't like that at all, but that would be better than killing hundreds, maybe thousands, of them outright like was done in the bombings.

 

   This is a war, people get killed in wars , woman and children get killed in wars , journalists get killed in wars , civilians get killed in wars  ,all kinds on unpleasant things happen in wars . 

   Do you think that wars involving Israel would be different to other wars ?

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I have never defended the taking of hostages by either side

 

Showing your bias again, only one side takes hostages and just because Biden made one remark on indiscriminate bombing does not make it true or do you believe everything he says when there is evidence to the contrary?

 

A senior Israeli Air Force officer on Wednesday rejected claims that Israel's airstrikes in the Gaza Strip have been indiscriminate, saying it follows careful procedures before hitting each target. “Since the October 7 massacre, the Israeli Air Force has been conducting a precise, focused and process-based campaign

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-gaza-strikes-precise-theres-no-indiscriminate-bombing-but-mistakes-can-happen/

"Hostages" or "prisoners," what's the difference?

I don't base my conclusions on Biden or any one source. Many sources call the bombings "indiscriminate." And...

If the IDF says the bombings were not Indiscriminate but precise and focussed, that makes their killing of tens of thousands of civilians even the more despicable! 

30 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

To repeat nonsens does not make it more true. There never was a Palestine in history. So called Palestinians are arabs, nothing else.

Rubbish. The Romans called it Syria Palaestina, and the British referred to the area as Palestine.

Yes, they are Arabs and they live in Palestine.

Trying to deflect does not change the fact that Gaza was not included in the 1948 UN designated area for israel. Israel has no legal right to it.

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

They're not calling for eradication and elimination of the Palestinian nation, only the terrorists, sent by other nations,

any government that will rule Israel will do pretty much the same to protect and safe guard Israel from a

destruction as Israel is now fighting on several fronts, some bordering it and some far away , and there're

and no matter no what government will rule Israel, there's always be those who don't want Jews/Israel in this world...

Yes they are. 

Israel should have accepted the land they were given and not continually steal Palestinian land, this is the cause of resent against Israel. And, it has nothing to do with them being Jewish. 

37 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

It's not a question of nationality it's one of humanity. If there's a genocide happening in Gaza, Egypt should open it's border for refugees. Any idea why they are not willing to?

 

Yes, easily.

 

I'm talking about Gaza, not West Bank.

 

To repeat nonsens does not make it more true. There never was a Palestine in history. So called Palestinians are arabs, nothing else.

 

They don't do the same. As far as I know there are no phosphor- and cluster bombs used by the IDF.

All your arguments about immigrating elsewhere could also apply to the Israelis. 

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

Australia resumes funding for UNRWA and pledges more Gaza aid | AP News

 

Israel’s campaign against UNRWA is in tatters. The entire world has woken up to the conspiracy against the plight of Gaza and the malicious attempt to shut down UNRWA.

 

Australia is now following Sweden, Canada and many other countries in resuming UNRWA funding.

 

The Israeli goal was to make life miserable for the war surviving hungry /sick refugees in an effort to drive them out of Gaza.

 

Israel’s plan has failed spectacularly in a matter of weeks.    

That plan failed but they are doing quite well in stopping most aid getting in. Vile and despicable actions.

My position has fundamentally changed here. As long as Israel continues to deny humanitarian aid to Palestinians and use famine as a weapon of war while continuing to drive them out out Gaza I don't believe they deserve their own country any more than any other nation committing genocide.  Israeli leadership is lower than a snakes belly.

 

Israeli diplomats have pre-emptively attacked the findings of two inquires into the role of the United Nations Palestinian refugee agency, Unrwa, in Gaza, on the day that one of the inquiries submitted its interim finding to the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres.

Israeli diplomats in London hit out at both investigations on Wednesday, vowing that Israel would never let the agency back into Gaza regardless of the outcomes. One Israeli diplomatic source said: “A double game has been played by Hamas and Unrwa, so much so that Unrwa is a Hamas strategic asset.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/20/israel-will-ignore-findings-of-inquiries-into-unrwa-in-gaza-say-diplomats

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! Permanent ceasefire (perhaps enforced).
No! I do not want to see either side lose any more than it already has. I want to see them sit down and work out some arrangement of how they can both live together (one-state solution - unlikely) or at least side by side (two-state solution).

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

Okay, then what is your suggested solution? 

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   This is a war, people get killed in wars , woman and children get killed in wars , journalists get killed in wars , civilians get killed in wars  ,all kinds on unpleasant things happen in wars . 

   Do you think that wars involving Israel would be different to other wars ?

It could be, if Israel wanted to be different.

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lies, about time you stopped with the claim that 30k civilians have been killed. 

 

You are right for once; not true 30,000 civilians have been killed.

The number is much higher than 30,000 since thousands are still buried under the rubble of destroyed buildings and thus have not been officially accounted for.

Just now, WDSmart said:

It could be, if Israel wanted to be different.

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

One state means Israel is over.

Neither side wants two states.

You're basically fantasizing about pie in the sky stuff.

 

You've been asked repeatedly whether YOU support a Palestinian state and never respond directly while continuing to make this false assertion.

 

For me, it's two states or no state. Netanyahu and his war criminal cabal should face the ICC, along with Hamas leadership. All of them are oxygen thieves.

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Okay, then what is your suggested solution? 

 

   They both cannot live together , so there will either be a never ending war or one side has to go .

Then the other side can live peacefully 

 

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

You've been asked repeatedly whether YOU support a Palestinian state and never respond directly while continuing to make this false assertion.

Why should I respond?

I'm not Israeli or Palestinian or a US negotiator and my personal opinion on that means nothing.

I think it's the business of the parties involved, and like I said NEITHER side wants two states.

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You are right for once; not true 30,000 civilians have been killed.

The number is much higher than 30,000 since thousands are still buried under the rubble of destroyed buildings and thus have not been officially accounted for.

Nonsense. Out of that figure 30k more than 13,000 are Hamas terrorists who were killed

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

 May be because it's the only/last occupying power on earth and the only entity that has killed so many civilians in a short period of time.

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why would Israel be the only Country in the World ever to be able to avoid civilian casualties in a war ?

Perhaps because they were moral and valued the lives of ALL people?  You think? 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why should I respond?

I'm not Israeli or Palestinian or a US negotiator and my personal opinion on that means nothing.

I think it's the business of the parties involved, and like I said NEITHER side wants two states.

 

Because it would demonstrate that you have a reasonable point of view. The notion that the Palestinians don't want their own state is patently BS.

 

Palestinians now have good reason to oppose an Israeli state. Using famine as a weapon is inexcusable.