Absolute poverty: UK sees biggest rise for 30 years

[Nick Carter icp]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Easily dot down as the falsehood it is:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11676661/amp/Pensioner-87-died-hypothermia-telling-doctor-afford-heat-home.html

 

   70 million people in the UK , one persons dies of being cold .

That is using one extreme example to portray it as being the norm 

[youreavinalaff]

What the article doesn't explain is the figures are household income.

 

The first adult is given a value of 1.0, additional adults and over 14 children 0.5 and children 13 and under 0.3.

Household income is then divided by this figure to try and reflect both the economy of scale of running one family home vs several but also the increased income needs of that home vs a single adult household. Here is a comment from a parent recently surveyed. These are the comments not relayed in the scaremongery articles:

"Our equivalence value is 2.7 so our equivalence income, including both adults and child benefit, is (just) in relative poverty. We actually have a household income which is incredibly healthy for the cheapish area we live in -we are able to overpay the mortgage and have nice but fairly modest holidays. Our income of c. £55k is rightly way way way too high for any support like UC. We do still get CB though."

 

Levels of poverty clearly need to be redefined.

Edited March 23 by youreavinalaff

[MrPancake]

It's the same garbage going on everywhere in the west.

Lead by a bunch a total losers. Managerial failures extraordinaire.

So...

 

 

Edited March 23 by MrPancake

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, Keeps said:

Do you recall being dropped on your head when you were a child?

 

yo momma

[The Old Bull]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:41 PM, herfiehandbag said:

At the risk of sounding trite, you should not believe everything that you hear on the news regarding Brexit! It was a hard contested political decision. "The establishment", including both major parties, and a large swage of the middle classes, (particularly those in occupations which let us say, were closely bound to the EU) were in favour of remaining. The majority of the  population, as the vote showed, wanted to leave.

 

It divided the country, and the country frankly remains divided. This division is reflected in media portrayal of the matter.

Brexit was pushed behind the scenes by the rich with their money hid in places like the Cayman Islands. The EU was threatening to start looking into these. Thats why they bailed out, leaving the ordinary Brits with no more cheap beer and fags. The only problem I had with the EU was that meat pies had to be sold at a high temperature making them impossible to eat till they cooled down.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   70 million people in the UK , one persons dies of being cold .

That is using one extreme example to portray it as being the norm 

You stated “No , no one dies from the cold these days”.

 

It would only take one ‘example’ of someone flying of cold to prove your categorical statement false.

 

I provided a news article that gave such an example.

 

Perhaps, and it’s just a suggestion, rather than trying to wriggle out of the trap you set for yourself you could learn a bit more about poverty in the UK or at the very least refrain posting obviously incorrect assumptions on your part.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

What the article doesn't explain is the figures are household income.

 

The first adult is given a value of 1.0, additional adults and over 14 children 0.5 and children 13 and under 0.3.

Household income is then divided by this figure to try and reflect both the economy of scale of running one family home vs several but also the increased income needs of that home vs a single adult household. Here is a comment from a parent recently surveyed. These are the comments not relayed in the scaremongery articles:

"Our equivalence value is 2.7 so our equivalence income, including both adults and child benefit, is (just) in relative poverty. We actually have a household income which is incredibly healthy for the cheapish area we live in -we are able to overpay the mortgage and have nice but fairly modest holidays. Our income of c. £55k is rightly way way way too high for any support like UC. We do still get CB though."

 

Levels of poverty clearly need to be redefined.

Can you please provide a link for your statement on basis of calculation and too for the source of the ‘statement’ of a recently surveyed parent that you have quoted.

[Skipalongcassidy]

16 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   When  you spend your money on drinking and drugs and then complain because you are hungry

Getting off your trolley on a daily basis is a huge expense , and the money could be better  spent on other things like food and heating  

Or you can come to Thailand as many do and be less broke... and just as drunk.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You stated “No , no one dies from the cold these days”.

It would only take one ‘example’ of someone flying of cold to prove your categorical statement false.

I provided a news article that gave such an example.

Perhaps, and it’s just a suggestion, rather than trying to wriggle out of the trap you set for yourself you could learn a bit more about poverty in the UK or at the very least refrain posting obviously incorrect assumptions on your part.

Slightly of topic,

When I was a kid we didn't have any central heating, on winter mornings there was ice on the inside of the single glazed windows.

We had a coal fire in the living room, and a paraffin heater in the dining room, both used sparingly in the day/evening.

Xmas day/Boxing day we would have both rooms heated.

None of us died, none of our neighbours died from cold.

If you had a roof over your head, there was no problem.

So why is it a problem now?

 

PS. We weren't poor, it's just nobody back then thought warming your house 24/7 was important.

Edited March 24 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Slightly of topic,

When I was a kid we didn't have any central heating, on winter mornings there was ice on the inside of the single glazed windows.

We had a coal fire in the living room, and a paraffin heater in the dining room, both used sparingly in the day/evening.

None of us died, none of our neighbours died from cold.

If you had a roof over your head, there was no problem.

So why is it a problem now?

Well you obviously didn’t die.

 

That you as a child were not aware of people dying of cold is not proof that it never happened.

 

I’ve provided a link to a news article giving a recent example.

 

In incidentally, do you recall the price of coal and oil for your heating back then?

 

Did the price shoot up like it did over the past couple of years?

 

Or were they relatively stable in price and affordable?

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In incidentally, do you recall the price of coal and oil for your heating back then?

 

Did the price shoot up like it did over the past couple of years?

 

Or were they relatively stable in price and affordable?

Heating your home was a luxury, it wasn't required, so the price of fuel wasn't important.

It was perfectly acceptable to wear 2 jumpers, or your outdoor coat on particularly cold days.

 

What defined poor back then .......

Not having enough food to eat.

Not having anywhere to live.

Not being able to afford new shoes or new school uniforms for your kids.

[JonnyF]

47 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Or you can come to Thailand as many do and be less broke... and just as drunk.

 

Yep I saw the writing on the wall years ago. Couldn't pay me to live there now. The England of my youth is long gone. Uni in London in the 90s was great, it's a total mess now. A lot of that is due to Khan but also uncontrolled immigration. 

 

As for heating bills a lot of that is due to the green lobby pushing up energy prices with their stupid ideas of net zero etc. I had the police round for burning wood in an open fire in my living room due to smoke coming out of the chimney. 

 

As a landlord I have to comply with lots of stupid rules which pushes up costs which get passed on to my tenants. One of the reasons I love Thailand so much is the lack of political correctness and stupid regulations. 

[john donson]

would unlimited migration into the country from people with no education and another religion have to do something with it ?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:56 PM, Doctor Tom said:

I'm a Brit, and I'm sure that a lot of people agree with that assessment.  Been there and got out. 

I'm also a Brit, else I wouldn't have the passport, but I'm not loathe to point out the failings of the British establishment.

 

Sort of funny, but when I worked in London, I didn't meet many actual Brits, and many/ ? most of our patients were not born in the UK. We even had some that flew in to get free operations on the NHS and went back whence they came after.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yep I saw the writing on the wall years ago. Couldn't pay me to live there now. The England of my youth is long gone. Uni in London in the 90s was great, it's a total mess now. A lot of that is due to Khan but also uncontrolled immigration. 

 

As for heating bills a lot of that is due to the green lobby pushing up energy prices with their stupid ideas of net zero etc. I had the police round for burning wood in an open fire in my living room due to smoke coming out of the chimney. 

 

As a landlord I have to comply with lots of stupid rules which pushes up costs which get passed on to my tenants. One of the reasons I love Thailand so much is the lack of political correctness and stupid regulations. 

I wish I had pound for everything e I heard a Brit in Thailand say words to the effect of ‘You couldn’t pay me to live in the UK now’ 

 

Only slope off back home when they are I need if ‘nanny’.

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I wish I had pound for everything e I heard a Brit in Thailand say words to the effect of ‘You couldn’t pay me to live in the UK now’ 

 

Only slope off back home when they are I need if ‘nanny’.

 

And why not........

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, transam said:

And why not........

 

Why not indeed.

 

Plenty do.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Why not indeed.

 

Plenty do.

Including me, if the case arises............

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

Can you tell the difference when they are tearing down the flag together?

 

Flags? Are you upset about the "England flag" on their new footie kit as well?

 

19 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

I quoted THE OFFICIAL government website (GOV.UK)

 

Yes, I know that's what you did. I was questioning if you COMPREHEND what you posted.

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure anyone needs heating, sleeping bags work well even outside in the snow.

 

Is this that "lifestyle choice" thing again?

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   No , no one dies from the cold these days , Houses are insulated and double glazed 

I often see my poor neighbours with the central heating on and windows open and complain because they cannot pay the heating bills .

   Myself having lived in Thailand for a while , being cold is a luxury and no need for air con 

Just put warm clothes on and sleep with a woolly hat 

 

How about the British pensioners who can't afford to heat their homes, abusing their government bus passes by riding around on heated public transport for free?

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Is this that "lifestyle choice" thing again?

My parents chose not to waste money on heating their home much.

And I followed on by choosing not to waste money on heating my homes in the UK much.

And now I choose not to waste money to air condition my home in Thailand.

 

I would have thought this lifestyle would be considered virtuous by modern standards, conserving energy and reducing our carbon footprint.

Edited March 24 by BritManToo

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   70 million people in the UK , one persons dies of being cold .

That is using one extreme example to portray it as being the norm 

 

Interesting viewpoint?

 

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I often see my poor neighbours with the central heating on and windows open and complain because they cannot pay the heating bills .

 

Is this not "using one extreme example to portray it as being the norm" ?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

What defined poor back then .......

Not having enough food to eat.

Not having anywhere to live.

Not being able to afford new shoes or new school uniforms for your kids.

 

Looks pretty much the same as what defines poor today, no? I mean with food banks, tents on the pavements overnight and the still exorbitant prices for school clothes.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

A lot of that is due to Khan but also uncontrolled immigration. 

 

Oh, so nothing whatsoever to do with about 14 years of the Tories filling THEIR boots then?

[NanLaew]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My parents chose not to waste money on heating their home much.

And I followed on by choosing not to waste money on heating my homes in the UK much.

And now I choose not to waste money to air condition my home in Thailand.

 

 What has that to do with

 

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure anyone needs heating, sleeping bags work well even outside in the snow.

 

In the UK?

[Nick Carter icp]

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Interesting viewpoint?

 

 

Is this not "using one extreme example to portray it as being the norm" ?

 

   That would depend of how many people leave their windows open and have the heating on .

Whether my neighbours are the norm or an anomaly 

[Nick Carter icp]

45 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

How about the British pensioners who can't afford to heat their homes, abusing their government bus passes by riding around on heated public transport for free?

 

   They are not free bus passes , we pay for those bus passes from our taxes .

People should pay for their own bus passes of they want to ride on public transport .

Younger people who cannot afford a car are paying for older people who can afford a car to also have bus passes .

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

They are not free bus passes , we pay for those bus passes from our taxes .

 

Yes, correct, but pensioners have paid their taxes too. Statistically, they have probably contributed more in taxes towards their 'free' bus passes than many younger people "who cannot afford a car" but still "leave their windows open with the central heating on". These work-shy 'youngsters' are also finding it harder to fund their two overseas vacations a year.

 

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

People should pay for their own bus passes of they want to ride on public transport .

 

I have a UK bus pass, and I stopped paying UK taxes some time around 1977. But it's OK, I haven't used it yet.

 

14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Younger people who cannot afford a car are paying for older people who can afford a car to also have bus passes .

 

The old fogies aren't riding around in subsidised and heated public transport just because they haven't got a car. It's because they can't afford to heat their 2-bedroom semi-detached in Accrington (for example).

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

Yes, correct, but pensioners have paid their taxes too. Statistically, they have probably contributed more in taxes towards their 'free' bus passes than many younger people "who cannot afford a car" but still "leave their windows open with the central heating on". These work-shy 'youngsters' are also finding it harder to fund their two overseas vacations a year.

 

 

 

   The bus passes are paid out from the current taxes , not taxes previously paid . 

The money paid for your bus pass could be used to pay to heat peoples homes