Foreigner Questions Thai Dowry: Netizens Respond

[Wrwest]

For a young girl, fresh university grad, no children (we won't push the virgin scenario) the Thai Sin Sot is to thank the family for raising such a wonderful potential Wife. You say age 47? Grandchildren? Sorry, the 1st husband was responsible for the Sin Sot. I love Thai guys, go after the young girls, get them pregnant, leave for greener pastures. The result? A goodly number of past 30 year old females quite happy to meet western males but ... no Sin Sot. Want a laugh? If the subject of Sin Sot comes up ... explain that in the western nations it is traditional for the bride to bring a Dowry into the marriage. Ha! The reaction is priceless. Of course that dowry tradition has faded somewhat. The remnant is that it is the Bride's family which is responsible for paying the costs of the wedding.

[Jack Hammer]

Get out now while you have only been taken down for B230,000 

A 47 year old grandmother should be paying you to marry her. Take my advice it will be one endless demands for money. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

Did the OP pay a dowry to his wife (as stated) or to his wife's parents?

[Muhendis]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Indeed, if she's new and "undamaged", this lady was a granny!

Absolutely second hand well run in and past her smell by date

[Jack Hammer]

Get out now while you have only been taken down for B230,000 

A 47 year old grandmother should be paying you to marry her. Take my advice it will be one endless demands for money. 

[Bangkok Barry]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Netizens weighed in, some sympathizing, others suggesting cultural understanding.

 

The culture being that it is perfectly acceptable to sell your daughter to whoever wants to marry her.

[Robbie2618]

Going to depend on the family, when me and the misses got married, the mother-in-law said don't worry about a dowry as we have been together for 7 years and 3 children and treated her daughter and family well. The wife said I should give something because the villagers would talk if I didn't and up to me, so I gave the equivalent of $1,500 USD in gold to honor and respect the mother-in-law and local customs. I guess I lucked out and live in a bubble the past 8 years as I read the horror stories of family fighting and treating the farang as a ATM. I've had nothing but the opposite experience from my wife's family and neighbors, lucky to have a very conservative and respectful family. 

[Jack Hammer]

Get out while you are only ฿230,000 out-of-pocket. Ab47-year-old grandmother should be paying you to marry her. If you stay with her, you may as well give her your ATM card as it will be one continual demand for money.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Here they always get custody, and the ex husband pays child support (usually only a farang). The women gets half of the marital assets, just like in western countries, and she will get the house if she chipped in anything towards the building of it. If she paid part, they will usually be forced to sell it, or buy the other out. If she didn't chip in, and he paid 100%, he keeps it until he leaves, then she gets it. Anything he had before the marriage is his and vice versa. Pretty much the same as western countries.

No - not the same.  After a short period of time (1 year) in the west the wife is entitled to claim up to half of the husband's assets. In the west, after 2-3 years it is very much a given that she will get at least half the husband's assets - whether they were acquired by him before the marriage started or not. In Thailand what is the husband's prior to the marriage is his, if the marriage breaks down.

 

Regards custody of kids and child support, you are correct - but she does not automatically get half of the assets - only half of what they have both accumulated since they got married (perhaps you mean that when using the words 'marital assets').  In Thailand the marriage laws are very much 'designed' to keep the couple together, in the west the marriage laws are very much designed for the women to get as much as possible from the man.  They were not always designed that way, but a*ole men who deserted them and kids, and men hating feminists,caused the changes that we made - but they went too far - way too far. Now in the west you have a*ole women screwing blokes over - the exact opposite of the reason why the marriage laws were changed.  

[MangoKorat]

230,000 baht for a 47 year old grandma?  The man needs a check up from the neck up.

[Pouatchee]

9 hours ago, BayArea said:

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't think I'd pay anything for a 47 year old women with grandchildren.

As Thai people say, " Ai Kwai!!"

why on earth would they say that? in thai culture, as i and many others pointed out, no one needs to pay a dowry if a woman has had children from another man nor if she has been married before. thai culture is strange in many ways. for example, a girl in university, or primary school  who has had a child is not supposed to continue going to that school. 

 

this is a strange place i have exiled myself to

Edited April 3 by Pouatchee

[fredwiggy]

18 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

No - not the same.  After a short period of time (1 year) in the west the wife is entitled to claim up to half of the husband's assets. In the west, after 2-3 years it is very much a given that she will get at least half the husband's assets - whether they were acquired by him before the marriage started or not. In Thailand what is the husband's prior to the marriage is his, if the marriage breaks down.

 

Regards custody of kids and child support, you are correct - but she does not automatically get half of the assets - only half of what they have both accumulated since they got married (perhaps you mean that when using the words 'marital assets').  In Thailand the marriage laws are very much 'designed' to keep the couple together, in the west the marriage laws are very much designed for the women to get as much as possible from the man.  They were not always designed that way, but a*ole men who deserted them and kids, and men hating feminists,caused the changes that we made - but they went too far - way too far. Now in the west you have a*ole women screwing blokes over - the exact opposite of the reason why the marriage laws were changed.  

Actually it's exactly the same in many countries. In America, where I was married and divorced two times, as was many friends who also divorced, everything was split 50/50. Sometimes , if kids are involved, the wife would get the house, if she is given custody, as wives aren't always given custody, as in my case. This was in 6 states where friends live. Sometimes the house had to be sold, sometimes it was kept by one and the other bought them out.

 

I have never heard of nor seen anywhere where the wife got anything not hers before the marriage. that would be plain stupid and no one would agree on that.

 

As far as women screwing men over, it also goes the other way. A lot more men cheat on their wives than the other way around. Abuse happens more to women than from them, although it happened to me twice. Men are still more likely to leave the kids, although I fought for them because my ex was a nutcase.

[wombat]

10 hours ago, hanbla said:

they have asked me if I needed any. 

 

I'd have that statement bronzed.

[RobU]

2 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

Perhaps you should have read the article that had the link below posted BEFORE making such a comment.

 

I'm posting it again so you can read it and educate yourself.

 

Dowry in Thailand | ThaiEmbassy.com

Perhaps you should check the literal translation. It literally translates to Bride Price no matter what is said on an unofficial website that is in no way connected to the Thai government it belongs to a law firm and has no official standing. The website is aimed at English speaking foreigners and the authors have obviously decided to dumb down and have used dowry instead of bride price because they think that's what you understand 

Edited April 3 by RobU

[gomangosteen]

33 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

230,000 baht for a 47 year old grandma?  The man needs a check up from the neck up.

Or a reading lesson.

As has been pointed out many times, error in first post corrected several times, she has two nieces and one nephew.

She is not a mother or grandmother.

[itsari]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A 47 year old grandmother would throw money at a Thai man.

If grandmother had money to throw you may be right.

[Jaggg88]

10 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

 

a woman previously married with kids knows not to expect a dowry. thai guys know this, foreigners not

Exactly. So many dumb farangs have paid a sin sod when Thai men would just laugh. If she is not a virgin then a sin sod is not required

[TroubleandGrumpy]

28 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Actually it's exactly the same in many countries. In America, where I was married and divorced two times, as was many friends who also divorced, everything was split 50/50. Sometimes , if kids are involved, the wife would get the house, if she is given custody, as wives aren't always given custody, as in my case. This was in 6 states where friends live. Sometimes the house had to be sold, sometimes it was kept by one and the other bought them out.

 

I have never heard of nor seen anywhere where the wife got anything not hers before the marriage. that would be plain stupid and no one would agree on that.

 

As far as women screwing men over, it also goes the other way. A lot more men cheat on their wives than the other way around. Abuse happens more to women than from them, although it happened to me twice. Men are still more likely to leave the kids, although I fought for them because my ex was a nutcase.

I hear you about USA and some States - but I can assure you in Australia they get far more than you have experienced in US. I know because I have been through it (mine was OK and reasonable), but I have known many blokes over the years who were also screwed over (we call it financially raped in Aust).  I understand that the marriage laws are very much the same in New Zealand, UK and most of Europe.

 

Let me give you just two examples of many hours I could spend writing/talking about it.

 

Father of a close friend (late 70s) owned a big farm and his wife passed many years earlier. He somehow let a young woman come and live with him (family did not know) and within 6 months he died. She refused to leave and lodged a claim through the Family Court - it took over a year before thge family were able to remove her. They engaged lawyers etc but had to make a $120,000 payment as 'settlement' of her claim, and when she left and they got inside, she has stolen and sold many of his assets - the police refused to get involved.

 

Bloke I knew in Sydney was divorced and single for several years- He hooked up with a girl at a party and spent the weekend with her. She was from another State and he never saw her again until 9 months later - yep she had a kid and claimed it was his - he was forced to undergo paternity testing and it was his.  He hired an investigator and it was established that she had done this to 3 other men - all in interstate cities. This was found aout because she had a falling out with a girlfriend and she told the investigator and stated it in Court.  The Family Court ruled that although she had deliberately done it for fianncial support money, the kid was his and he had to pay - for 18 years. 

 

He was the reason I got a vasectomy, and they both and so many other similar stories, convinced me to rent and not buy until I had retired.

[orchis]

pay or don't pay.
but it's the endless whining that drives me nuts.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

9 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

Exactly. So many dumb farangs have paid a sin sod when Thai men would just laugh. If she is not a virgin then a sin sod is not required

Not totally true - some Thai girls and their Families do not expect or ask for much, and some ask for way too much. A lot of it depends on whether she has been supporting the family before getting married and as you said whther she has kids  Each situation is different, but as a general rule if she has no kids and has been supporting the family, then she is worth more sinsod than a previously married Thai girl with kid/s. Yes I paid sinsod but since then (almost 10 years) I have not been asked for anything - best 'investment' I have ever made in my life.

[fredwiggy]

35 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

Exactly. So many dumb farangs have paid a sin sod when Thai men would just laugh. If she is not a virgin then a sin sod is not required

I'm guessing you don't realize that many of us "dumb" foreigners are here on this site, and I'm also guessing from your type of reply, we are all smarter than you are.Thai men won't pay a sin sod because most of the time they won't marry a woman who's had children and or has been married already. It's not about a requirement because it's always something that is negotiated. Many of us pay because we are okay with it and can afford it, and some times we will get it back anyway. Thai men don't laugh. They just don't marry a woman that's been around. Usually. They'd rather keep on using them and leaving when kids are born. We laugh at what sad "men" they are, running from responsibility. It's usually the ones who call others dumb that shirk responsibility and are hiding a warped personality.

Edited April 3 by fredwiggy

[Sig]

A dowry, especially that much, for a divorced 47 year old (no uni education - I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even finish high school) with children and grandchildren!???? You've got to be kidding me! This guy obviously did absolutely zero reading or asking any uninterested third party Thai person anything at all about Thai marriage practices. What an idiot. I wish him the best, but wow... I wouldn't want any part of that family.
 

Of the 6 Thais that I've known well enough to know what happened with the dowry, 5 got it back (of course) and 1 didn't have any dowry. I don't have any problem at all with the dowry system/tradition. It has a purpose and when treated respectfully, it's all good. But when dealing with greedy, self-interested, despicable family members, it can become a grotesque image, showing the levels to which people can stoop, which should in fact make them lose face. It is disgusting and shows no respect whatsoever for their own daughter, let alone their son in-law to be. And it also shows that they have no respect for their own culture unless it serves their own self-interested purposes.

From the tenor of the article, it sounded like it wasn't a small amount to the guy and it apparently wasn't even clear how it would be treated - given back for them to start their marriage off with a better financial foundation or for them to keep with his best wishes for them to enjoy, since he's doing well financially. Since they were "dating" online for many years, it sounds like he doesn't have so much money, otherwise it would make sense that he would have visited her numerous times through those years and dated in person more extensively. It really sounds like this is another story of a naive sucker taken for a ride.

At least he knows where he stands with her family. The problem is that his wife apparently agreed with it, so he's stuck with a bunch of shameless low-lifes.

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, Robbie2618 said:

Going to depend on the family, when me and the misses got married, the mother-in-law said don't worry about a dowry as we have been together for 7 years and 3 children and treated her daughter and family well.

 

It does indeed depend on the family. I married after knowing her for 14 days. Decided on Friday, married on Monday. No dowry was mentioned. That was 33 years ago. No member has ever asked for money, although I've lent some over time and always got it back as agreed.

Edited April 3 by Bangkok Barry

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I hear you about USA and some States - but I can assure you in Australia they get far more than you have experienced in US. I know because I have been through it (mine was OK and reasonable), but I have known many blokes over the years who were also screwed over (we call it financially raped in Aust).  I understand that the marriage laws are very much the same in New Zealand, UK and most of Europe.

 

Let me give you just two examples of many hours I could spend writing/talking about it.

 

Father of a close friend (late 70s) owned a big farm and his wife passed many years earlier. He somehow let a young woman come and live with him (family did not know) and within 6 months he died. She refused to leave and lodged a claim through the Family Court - it took over a year before thge family were able to remove her. They engaged lawyers etc but had to make a $120,000 payment as 'settlement' of her claim, and when she left and they got inside, she has stolen and sold many of his assets - the police refused to get involved.

 

Bloke I knew in Sydney was divorced and single for several years- He hooked up with a girl at a party and spent the weekend with her. She was from another State and he never saw her again until 9 months later - yep she had a kid and claimed it was his - he was forced to undergo paternity testing and it was his.  He hired an investigator and it was established that she had done this to 3 other men - all in interstate cities. This was found aout because she had a falling out with a girlfriend and she told the investigator and stated it in Court.  The Family Court ruled that although she had deliberately done it for fianncial support money, the kid was his and he had to pay - for 18 years. 

 

He was the reason I got a vasectomy, and they both and so many other similar stories, convinced me to rent and not buy until I had retired.

One thing I do know is that many judges will go beyond the law and give women things they don't deserve, and get away with it. They are usually biased towards women and a man has to fight just to get treated fair. Something which is changing slowly. More and more men are wanting a relationship than before, and the women aren't getting away with screwing men over as much anymore. My ex tried to get my house, and she did get primary custody of the kids, at least for awhile. I bought the house a week before we were married, in my name, so she didn't have a prayer.

[Sig]

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm guessing you don't realize that man of us "dumb" foreigners are here on this site, and I'm also guessing from your type of reply, we are all smarter than you are.Thai men won't pay a sin sod because most of the time they won't marry a woman who's had children and or has been married already. It's not about a requirement because it's always something that is negotiated. Many of us pay because we are okay with it and can afford it, and some times we will get it back anyway. Thai men don't laugh. They just don't marry a woman that's been around. Usually. They'd rather keep on using them and leaving when kids are born. We laugh at what sad "men" they are, running from responsibility. It's usually the ones who call others dumb that shirk responsibility and are hiding a warped personality.

You're right, Thai men don't necessarily laugh when they hear stories like this. Over the years I've talked with some of my friends about these kind of stories. They never laughed, nor did the women with whom I shared these kinds of stories. They shook their heads in disgust at the Thai families that behaved this way. They didn't have disdain for the farang, so they wouldn't laugh at him.

Since you show an apparent disdain for Thai men, it's understandable why you'd hold the opinion you expressed about them here. It is on the same level to be head-shaking in disgust about. Of course, I've heard those stories of irresponsible men who do as you mentioned (in my home country too), but I've never known one in over 25 years here and know many men who are very respectable and are great husbands and fathers.

Perhaps it shows the circles you run in? I don't know... but it sure is sad that you hold such a low view of Thai men and make such broad generalizations denigrating them.

[RT555]

P.T. Barnum said it best.........There's a sucker born every minute.........I don't doubt he loves her but......greed is rife....everywhere though.

You don't really need to get married especially to an old granny....IMO

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, Sig said:

You're right, Thai men don't necessarily laugh when they hear stories like this. Over the years I've talked with some of my friends about these kind of stories. They never laughed, nor did the women with whom I shared these kinds of stories. They shook their heads in disgust at the Thai families that behaved this way. They didn't have disdain for the farang, so they wouldn't laugh at him.

Since you show an apparent disdain for Thai men, it's understandable why you'd hold the opinion you expressed about them here. It is on the same level to be head-shaking in disgust about. Of course, I've heard those stories of irresponsible men who do as you mentioned (in my home country too), but I've never known one in over 25 years here and know many men who are very respectable and are great husbands and fathers.

Perhaps it shows the circles you run in? I don't know... but it sure is sad that you hold such a low view of Thai men and make such broad generalizations denigrating them.

I don't hold a low view of anyone besides those that deserve it. I have a half Thai child and a Thai girlfriend. I'm not prejudiced against any race or nationality. I know how locals are generally as do most others, including them and the ladies that live both here and in the US. I know quite a few that are farmers that are always home with their wives and family and from what I see, they treat them well. They have a reputation that's deserved that I knew about many years before I even considered moving here.

 

I had friends that own restaurants in Texas that I talked to a lot, and they said the same things. Living here for over 25 years and not knowing any players, abusers or worse is impossible. I lived in the US and knew many men who treated women bad, as did everyone else I knew. There is a large majority of men who treat women bad.

 

In Asia, and elsewhere, Buddhism looks at women as inferior. . They look and hope that a woman comes back as a man. That's disrespect that shows in how they look at women here, and other Asian countries, and including India. I see more single moms here than I've ever seen in my life anywhere, and heard about it long before I moved here, by Thais. Thai men aren't held responsible for the children they make like westerners are, and they know this.

 

Every Thai woman I've talked to says the same. I know many that work with the school I help at, and almost all of them are single moms, with no dads in the picture. The school where my daughter goes has many kids without dads. The supervisor told me this. This has nothing to do with me or how I feel and everything to do with the culture.

[thairookie]

12 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

It is all about money in Thailand and dowry is a part of it....It gives the people a feeling how important they are

The dowry is not expensive.

 

However, if the wife is 47 years old with a few grandchildren, then she should not be asking for dowry anymore.

 

 

[baansgr]

It's not culture, dowry is to pay for mamas milk, she's 47 years.old.with grandkids...first hubby has already paid, no nees.for.this guy to pay a penny 

[aussienam]

11 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Do this somehow make her exempt from being a good wife? That would mean a virgin is a guarantee that you will marry a good woman? If you're above the age of a teenager's thinking, you should know by now that you never know how a marriage will work out because the only way it will happily for both, is that both are on the same page as far as their future together, agreeing on kids, finances, place to live, work, how to argue constructively and communication, which is what it's all about. People get married after a week, and stay together forever, and marry after dating 3 years, and divorce in a week. Only guarantees you have in life are that you'll die.

Very apt, wise advice.  The bit about being on the same page - how many of us do not align in attitudes, values and goals with our partners and then become embroiled in so many issues?