Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[khunPer]

22 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Kulaya mentioned plans to expand the tax base by requiring platforms with an income of 1 billion baht or more to report their sources of income.

This part is little unclear, what is "platforms", individuals that earn og have "1 billion baht or more"...🤔

 

[black tabby12345]

39 minutes ago, sabaijai said:

 

That makes sense. Sheer naivete on my part.

i assume Thai officials keen to chase down and assess will prioritize cases by estimated revenue to be harvested rather than attempt to go after every single individual. 

 

Those commercial entities/billionaires  already making a huge amount of profit (openly dodging tax payment) will be the primary targets.

Otherwise, they just end up as wasting huge amount of time and labor by the end of any tax years.

What is the point of chasing around not-so-affluent foreigners for little or no gain.

[daejung]

Nothing to worry about. This cannot apply to nationals of countries that have signed an international tax convention (DTA) with Thailand.

Edited June 6 by daejung

[MangoKorat]

I suspect that this story is simply bad reporting which is not helped by a poorly worded title.  Reading it for the second time, my take on it is that all that will change is that you won't be able to claim that the money you bring into Thailand was earned before 1 January 2024.

 

Reading it the other way - as the story has (possibly deliberately) been slanted - how would Thailand gain knowledge of your savings/income outside the country?

Edited June 6 by MangoKorat

[madmitch]

1 minute ago, khunPer said:

This part is little unclear, what is "platforms", individuals that earn og have "1 billion baht or more"...🤔

 

The whole article is a little unclear, and that's quite common fot The Thaiger articles.

[Ben Zioner]

27 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

I think that's the issue: people with "substantial wealth" only visit Thailand for short holidays in private type resorts unless they have certain predelictions. 

NOT taxing foreigners attracts low class people.  Low class people repel middle class and high class people.

Thanks, you give me hope with regards to the LTR tax exemption. 

[Foxx]

23 minutes ago, BritScot said:

I think you are wrong about the UK! I have friends who work in the middle East who do not pay tax uk or otherwise, tax free income. Unless you mean living in the uk and earning money from outwith the uk, no one is checking Unless your prominent and do your own tax returns. 

 

I wrote "Plenty of other countries tax the worldwide income for their resident nationals, including the UK."  Note the word "resident".  So (as usual) I'm not wrong.  Your workers in the Middle East are spending sufficient time outside the UK to be classed as non-resident, and so their non-UK income is not taxed in the UK.

[MeePeeMai]

42 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

There is some truth in that, with double tax agreements between countries. The problem is that if the tax paid is below the tax that would have been paid in Thailand, the Thai tax authorities will seek to recover the difference, 

 

If Thai tax would be 50,000, but you paid UK tax of 25,000, the Thai authorities will tax you 25,000 instead of 50,000. There will be some exemptions of course, but the whole system is going to get messy in the future. Big winners will be tax accountants. 

 

And that's not the only problem,

 

I'm a US citizen and my tax documents aren't available usually until mid to late March which gives me time to file my US tax return (usually due on April 15th but expats get an automatic 6 month extension to the filing deadline in the USA).

 

So how is it even possible for me to file taxes in Thailand in early March (under the double tax treaty with Thailand) when I haven't even done my taxes in the USA yet and won't be anywhere near ready yet to file here in Thailand.

 

My guess is that the Thai R.D. will require me to file here in March and pay all taxes due... then I may be allowed to later file paperwork requesting a refund for my overpaid taxes at some point in the future when I have all the required documents together to show proof of my taxes paid in the USA.

 

This is something that I am not willing to put myself through just to live here and I have absolutely zero faith in getting the refund due on my overpaid taxes (if it came to that), nor do I have any faith in the person in charge at the R.D. understanding or enforcing the double tax treaty properly (not to mention I moved here to escape govt. bureaucracy, paperwork headaches and the like).

 

Plus all the supporting documents they will request which must be official documents and must stamped and signed in blue ink by the appropriate official in the USA (no photo copies) etc. etc. etc.

 

Is it really worth the hassle?  Hell no, not for me.

Edited June 6 by MeePeeMai

[black tabby12345]

50 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

It seems they have a "salary tax" paid monthly on income derived from employment worldwide.  Payable by residents (180+ days).  Rates vary from 0-20%.  Non-residents pay 20% on Cambodia sourced salary only.

 

I found one source that has their residency not based exclusively on calendar year.  "more than 182 days in any period of 12 months"

 

They have a new capital gains tax, delayed several times, su

pposedly to take affect this year.  Looks like it targets mainly properties sold in Cambodia....foreign stocks held outside, dunno.

 

I have heard that even their  postal service is not properly functioning in Cambodia.

The only secure mail is ems or poste restante. If you direct individual home as the addressee, it usually goes missing.  If they cannot deliver mails correctly, investigating foreign income will be a tall order.

50 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

 

[jonclark]

43 minutes ago, pentagara said:

Tax residence status and immigration residence status are not linked. You don't get immigration residency priviliges in a country just because you are obliged to pay tax in a specific country.  If at all, it works the way round: You apply for a visa, the immigration department checks if you have paid tax or forwards the information to the revenue department that you have stayed in the country more than 180 days --> handled this way by some countries.

The latter will become easier in the future: Once the passport stamping is replaced by the machines entering your border crossing in a database (like in the US, EU soon, Singapore, etc.), all the tax department needs is an extract of that database to check whether you are liable to report your global income. Since the machines work based on biometric data, the passport number is irrelevant by the way. Technology makes our lifes (and the lifes of governments) so much easier.

 You do know that i was taking the p!ss 

 

Makes no odds to me either way as my overseas income goes into a bank account not in my name and the person lives outside of Thailand but I have their debit card with their consent. Whilst my income earned in Thailand is taxed already and has been for many, many years. So absolutely technology does make our lives easier. 

 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

9 minutes ago, Everyman said:

Ain’t going to happen. Countries like the US aren’t going to hand over massive amounts of intelligence on their own citizens to any tin pot foreign regime that asks for it.

Apparently there is a ratified agreement in place signed by both parties - but then again I wouldn't be surprised if USA backed out😐

[Thingamabob]

23 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

 

If you use the money in the bank required for your 12 month extension (800k / 400k), or you show the required monthly income to qualify for the extension then no, you will probably not be asked how you support yourself (unless you catch the I.O. on a bad day or rub him/her the wrong way).

 

If however, you use an agent or there is no activity (money in or out) in your passbook for the 800k/400k you may be questioned... especially if future 12 mo. extensions might be tied to or depend on filing tax documents here in Thailand (for tax residents).

 

The noose seems to be tightening and it's getting uncomfortable now.

Good points, but supposition at this time.

[black tabby12345]

53 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Your headline is misleading, again. Nothing has yet been agreed, let alone legally approved, regarding tax changes.

 

Yes quite.  The above 'news' is the typical case of the Skip Article; not telling someone's private comment from the official announcement.

If intentional, a dirty trick

If unintended, very low info literacy.

Edited June 6 by black tabby12345

[pentagara]

Just now, Everyman said:

 

Ain’t going to happen. Countries like the US aren’t going to hand over massive amounts of intelligence on their own citizens to any tin pot foreign regime that asks for it.

 

Imagine China searching such a database for patterns consistent with foreign spying, or using it to dig up dirt on presidentially candidates and leaking it to the press.

 

Even in the U.S the government couldn’t get Trump’s financial records without a subpoena. 

 

This had gone far enough into paranoia land. You all need to take some Xanax, have a Chang in your favorite lady bar and forget about this for a couple years so you can see that nothing will happen. If it makes you feel better, pick a lady bar in Angeles city so you don’t spend more than 180 days in a year in Thailand. 

 

You're correct, the US does not take part in the data exchange / CRS scheme of the OECD since the US was able to get the same information on their own citizens via FATCA from foreign banks. The US was able to do this via coercion (either you foreign bank agree to FATCA reporting or we collect 30% of all your US dollar transactions as pentalty --> basically a non-compliant bank / financial intermediary would go bankrupt within a few hours then, since the 30% penalty is not on the bank's profit, but on the transaction amount of any US dollar transaction of any of their clients).

 

This requirement of foreign banks to report bank account information (balances, dividends, interest, and employment income arriving in the account) to the IRS annually is also the reason why most international banks decided to get rid of US retail customers. The reporting effort is too high (i.e. more extensive compared to CRS), and the potential fines imposed by the US on the non-compliant banks are a real deterrant.

 

The point of FATCA was that US citizens become unable to evade tax by keeping their money in foreing accounts ("I have a Swiss account to protect me from IRS payments..." --> That's mute since FATCA).

 

FATCA is one way though (global countries --> to US IRS). It's not bi-directional. The US won't send any information to Thailand.

 

Other countries couldn't coerce international banks to give them the bank information on their citizens this way, however, since their own currency is less relevant internationally (also goes for Euro countries). As a result, other countries agreed to hand out information only if they get information in return (i.e. information exchange). Example: The UK gets information on their residens from other countries' banks (e.g. Thailand, Switzerland, etc. --> Google for OECD CRS countries) and UK banks send information to these countries in return (e.g. Thailand, Switzerland, etc.) on these countries residents, as per UK law.

 

In other words: The US is now a great tax haven for non-US citizens, much better than any of the previous tax havens, since they don't report anything to anyone abroad. The US basically is the new Switzerland.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thingamabob]

13 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Those commercial entities/billionaires  already making a huge amount of profit (openly dodging tax payment) will be the primary targets.

Otherwise, they just end up as wasting huge amount of time and labor by the end of any tax years.

What is the point of chasing around not-so-affluent foreigners for little or no gain.

However, if they go after billionaires they will be attacking the very people who have the power to bring them, the govt, down.

[Ben Zioner]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

As this change requires amendment to tax law it  is not going to happen overnight so no need for immediate action. But it would behoove everyone to get and read the DTA between their country of citizenship and Thailand.

 

And anyone with significant income abroad who has not been paying tax anywhere based on being non tax redident in their home country   might want to calculate potential tax bill and consider if they may want a Plan B. 

 

Indeed, but extremely annoying. If RD 743 gets rescinded I'll be hit with and 800k Tax bill, not enough to justify 185 days a year away from the family, but an almost impossible amount of savings to achieve while keeping everyone happy and cheerful. Practically less holidays, less western food, no more extensions on the house, only value saving maintenance, keep aging cars, etc.

 

On the bright side I managed to extend my tax free life by another decade, which I didn't expect when I came here. And IMHO I most [pragmatic] people here will follow the same approach, once settled it becomes near impossible to find a better deal elsewhere, even after tax.

 

 

[daejung]

20 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

I know only a handful of countries who don't tax residents (ie. 183 days+ residency) on their worldwide income. It is common - as a resident of a country - that you pay tax on your worldwide income.

 

 

DTA generally provide that each country taxes income according to its source. Real estate income, for example, is generally taxed in the country where the rented property is located.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Nice to see you again btw 🙂 

It's what the call for skilled technicians is all about. I'm looking to invest in hacking. Seems like a sure thing. Any ETFs? Groups listed on SET?

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, beammeup said:

But she says "This principle taxes individuals based on their residency within the country, irrespective of whether the income is sourced domestically or internationally". So I am a little confused. Will this affect individuals or just platform(whatever that is)?

People can be a tax resident in more than one jurisdiction. DTAs are there to prevent taxation being applied in more than one jurisdiction.

Individuals that may be affected are those that have tried to avoid taxation in any jurisdiction.

[black tabby12345]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

However, if they go after billionaires they will be attacking the very people who have the power to bring them, the govt, down.

 

In Feb, when this issue was publicized (as the news in ASEAN NOW), there was a high profile lawyer's comment at the end of the texts. He said that this move will be challenged by the superrich Thais and big companies.

In other words, they very well know that they are the primary targets.

[black tabby12345]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

People can be a tax resident in more than one jurisdiction. DTAs are there to prevent taxation being applied in more than one jurisdiction.

Individuals that may be affected are those that have tried to avoid taxation in any jurisdiction.

 

Normally thinking, that is the logical conclusion.

Unless tax department of Thailand willfully ignores the legal limit(tax agreement).

That is why this issue is causing  this much confusion and uneasy feeling among ordinary expats in Thailand.

Even though the biggest impacted is the rather easy-to-see big fish.

Not the small fish hard to find.

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Unless tax department of Thailand willfully ignores the legal limit(tax agreement).

That is why this issue is causing  this much confusion and uneasy feeling among ordinary expats in Thailand.

Only a paranoid mentality would be making such assumptions, but not unusual for those of a certain nationality.

[black tabby12345]

34 minutes ago, Everyman said:

 

Ain’t going to happen. Countries like the US aren’t going to hand over massive amounts of intelligence on their own citizens to any tin pot foreign regime that asks for it.

 

Imagine China searching such a database for patterns consistent with foreign spying, or using it to dig up dirt on presidential candidates and leaking it to the press.

 

Even in the U.S the government couldn’t get Trump’s financial records without a subpoena. 

 

This had gone far enough into paranoia land. You all need to take some Xanax, have a Chang in your favorite lady bar and forget about this for a couple years so you can see that nothing will happen. If it makes you feel better, pick a lady bar in Angeles city so you don’t spend more than 180 days in a year in Thailand. 

 

One common nature of the populist regime worldwide nowdays.

Extremely boastful; often love to say more than they can really do.

Disregarding their capabilities/legal definition.

They mostly do that for their approval rate on SNS.

Skip Article is the frequently used tool to serve that purpose.

[redwood1]

9 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

 

Normally thinking, that is the logical conclusion.

Unless tax department of Thailand willfully ignores the legal limit(tax agreement).

That is why this issue is causing  this much confusion and uneasy feeling among ordinary expats in Thailand.

Even though the biggest impacted is the rather easy-to-see big fish.

Not the small fish hard to find.

 

 

The big fish have a 100% tax free LTR visa so they have no problem if the little fish are forced to pay all the taxes and they pay zero taxes..

Edited June 6 by redwood1

[black tabby12345]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Only a paranoid mentality would be making such assumptions, but not unusual for those of a certain nationality.

 

You cannot judge everything in Thailand with the first world standard common sense.

Here, they often exercise what is unthinkable to you back home.

That is why the joke below makes us laugh and makes sense.

Same Same, but Different.

Edited June 6 by black tabby12345

[black tabby12345]

6 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

 

The big fish have a 100% tax free LTR visa so they nhave no problem if the little fish are forced to pay all the taxes and they pay zero taxes..

 

If that new tax really comes into effect, the real target is the Thai civilian billionaires/ mega Thai companies openly avoiding tax payment elsewhere.

Small numbers of LTR holders won't be  in the scope in the first place.

 

 

[alphason]

49 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

capital gains are now taxed in Thailand as income, make a profit on a property sale and it taxed at income tax rates. the land office is sending sales paperwork to the tax office, who contact you to pay the tax 

 

I've been struggling to find out about this, but from found this on Sherrings Thai tax pages...

 

Taxation of Capital Gains Income.

 

Specific types of assessable (taxable) income, for a resident of Thailand* is taxed as follows: 

* A resident is a person in Thailand for 180 days or more in a year

 

For a resident of Thailand deriving capital gains income from a source outside of Thailand and bringing it into Thailand**.
Personal income tax on the amount of capital gains income (the amount of the proceeds exceeding the costs of the investment).

 

**not including capital gains from immovable property which most double tax agreements prescribe the tax rights for the country in which the immovable property is situated.

 

Is this saying the UK Thai DTA prevents Thailand charging CGT/PIT on the sale of a property in the UK ??

[thecyclist]

23 hours ago, John Drake said:

It was slowly at first, but now more and more people are coming to understand that:

 

Prayuth was better.

Probably, but it's not saying much:Just like  In the US of A ,anybody, even Mickey mouse , is better than the orange retard and his GOP ass kissers, in LOS anybody is better than the repulsive Shinawatra Mafia. 

[proton]

They need everything they can get to help pay for their enormous 10k baht for every Thai over 16 election bribe bill, I will not be contributing. 

Edited June 6 by proton

[retarius]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Okay..............let's say I have $75,000 "disallowed" exemptions and exclusions available in the US.

 

That's currently about ฿2,750,000 assessable income.

 

300,001 to 500,000	10
500,001 to 750,000	15
750,001 to 1,000,000	20
1,000,001 to 2,000,000	25
2,000,001 to 5,000,000	30

 

Sure, I'll get a few deductions according to the Thai tax code, but I'd probably be looking at an ANNUAL tax bill of ฿500,000.  Just an estimate, I'll do more precise calculations later.

 

It would be cheaper to buy a condo in Cambodia, commute every other month between there and the homestead in Issan.  But then I'd have to ask.........why?  We'll just sell the house here and move elsewhere.

 

And............no more O-visa extensions in Thailand.

 

 

You sound very angry. People often make bad decisions when they are angry. By all means buy a condo in Cambodia, it isn't going to hurt Thailand any, because you don't contribute anyway, and leave the homestead in Isaan to rot. And trying to sell a house in Isaan is no picnic....if you built a house on land you bought, it's likely worth less than what you spent on it. It is a common mistake people make here thinking that house prices appreciate all the time like back home. 15000 baht isn't a huge amount of money to someone a canny as you are, after all you pay no tax in the US, only make huge unrealised gains in the stock market....are you Donald Trump?