Covid vaccines may have helped fuel rise in excess deaths [disputed]

[BigBruv]

 

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20240605062422/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/04/covid-vaccines-may-have-helped-fuel-rise-in-excess-deaths/

Or

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/04/covid-vaccines-may-have-helped-fuel-rise-in-excess-deaths/

 

 

 

 

 

Moderator's note: The publisher of the above-cited study subsequently issued a public statement rejecting the COVID vaccine "misreporting" claims attributed to the study made in the The Telegraph and other similar media reports, as follows:

 

 

Link: https://bit.ly/3RfBJGA

 

https://twitter.com/bmj_company/status/1798751750046019666

 

[transam]

Or the Vindaloo Curry they tried for the first time.............😂

[BigBruv]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Or the Vindaloo Curry they tried for the first time.............😂

 

 

Tick Tock Blood Clot ⏰

 

Or ischaemic stroke, acute coronary syndrome and brain haemorrhage, cardiovascular diseases, coagulation, haemorrhages, gastrointestinal events

 

 

Edited June 5 by stats
comment on moderation removed

[transam]

4 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

 

Tick Tock Blood Clot ⏰

 

Or ischaemic stroke, acute coronary syndrome and brain haemorrhage, cardiovascular diseases, coagulation, haemorrhages, gastrointestinal events

 

 

You should stop worrying, just keep eating lettuce and muesli, stay indoors at all times, if you have to go out use a bicycle, but wear full leathers and a crash hat....🤔

[Red Phoenix]

3 million excess deaths in Western countries since 2020 with the trend continuing, ultimately cannot be brushed under the table.  So it's only natural that some of the MSM are starting to report it and are hesitantly mentioning now that the covid-measures and the '100% safe and effective' jabs might be a significant factor contributing to that disastrous trend.

[BigBruv]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

You should stop worrying, just keep eating lettuce and muesli, stay indoors at all times, if you have to go out use a bicycle, but wear full leathers and a crash hat....🤔

 

Im not worried at all but some of you should be.

 

Som nom naa 👍

[BigBruv]

5 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

3 million excess deaths in Western countries since 2020 with the trend continuing, ultimately cannot be brushed under the table.  So it's only natural that some of the MSM are starting to report it and are hesitantly mentioning now that the covid-measures and the '100% safe and effective' jabs might be a significant factor contributing to that disastrous trend.

 

 

It's called a 'controlled release'.

 

The press were accessories to what we're seeing now and took money from the UK Govt for wrap around covid mania adds so have to spill the beans slowly.

 

The truth will come out though but some will never accept it

(same types who still believe Sadam Hussein had nukes and could blow them up in 45 mins).

 

 

[stevenl]

The headline doesn't match the text. Nowhere in the article are jabs blamed.

Edited June 5 by stevenl

[AreYouGerman]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The headline doesn't match the text. Nowhere in the article are jabs blamed.

 

The first sentence under the headline.

[transam]

1 minute ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

The first sentence under the headline.

....any possible links...........🤣

 

[AreYouGerman]

20 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

3 million excess deaths in Western countries since 2020 with the trend continuing, ultimately cannot be brushed under the table.  So it's only natural that some of the MSM are starting to report it and are hesitantly mentioning now that the covid-measures and the '100% safe and effective' jabs might be a significant factor contributing to that disastrous trend.

 

Well, I didn't take the clot shot and think that covid is the flu and everything was a complete hoax. But the excess death rate is a hoax. It was used by the covid hoaxers in the fake pandemic as well. Excess death has something to do with birth rates. Yeah, boomers are called boomers... exactly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

  

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

 Nowhere in the article are jabs blamed.

 

 

That's correct regarding the study itself. This, on the other hand, is a BOGUS false news article by The Telegraph. There's nothing in the actual study that in any way quantifies any share of COVID vaccine-related deaths in any legitimate way.

 

The term vaccine isn't even listed in the title of the actual study, and nor are vaccine related deaths even cited in the key findings of the actual report. Here's what it actually says:

 

Excess mortality across countries in the Western World since the COVID-19 pandemic: ‘Our World in Data’ estimates of January 2020 to December 2022

"Results The total number of excess deaths in 47 countries of the Western World was 3 098 456 from 1 January 2020 until 31 December 2022. Excess mortality was documented in 41 countries (87%) in 2020, 42 countries (89%) in 2021 and 43 countries (91%) in 2022. In 2020, the year of the COVID-19 pandemic onset and implementation of containment measures, records present 1 033 122 excess deaths (P-score 11.4%). In 2021, the year in which both containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines were used to address virus spread and infection, the highest number of excess deaths was reported: 1 256 942 excess deaths (P-score 13.8%). In 2022, when most containment measures were lifted and COVID-19 vaccines were continued, preliminary data present 808 392 excess deaths (P-score 8.8%).

 

Conclusions Excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. This raises serious concerns. Government leaders and policymakers need to thoroughly investigate underlying causes of persistent excess mortality.

 

https://bmjpublichealth.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000282#ref-85

 

There's also an accompanying news release done in conjunction with the report that specifically says the following:

 

"It’s not clear how many of these excess deaths reflect the impact of COVID-19 infection, or the indirect effects of containment measures and vaccination programmes, say the researchers.

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1046663

 

It's NO surprise to anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for years that the worst years of the COVID pandemic resulted in large number of excess deaths around the world due to COVID disease and related factors, something that long ago has been widely and repeatedly reported.

 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

Can't you people read.  The conclusions of the study read:

Conclusions Excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. This raises serious concerns. Government leaders and policymakers need to thoroughly investigate underlying causes of persistent excess mortality.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's absolutely nothing new or surprising about the notion that world countries have had large numbers of excess death during the 2020-2022 years of the pandemic, which is the period address in this report. And, it's the broad consensus, unsurprisingly, that COVID disease itself and related impacts -- overcrowded hospitals, missed health care, etc etc. -- and not COVID vaccines -- are responsible for the vast share of those deaths.

 

Here's what the legitimate research shows:

 

How COVID-19 shots slash all-cause mortality and outshine misinformation

 

"The accumulation of evidence solidly affirms that COVID-19 vaccines not only directly save lives by preventing virus-specific deaths but also play a crucial role in reducing all-cause mortality among vaccinated populations.

 

While claims about COVID-19 vaccines being associated with increased mortality have circulated, they are often based on misinterpretation of data, anecdotal evidence, or preliminary research that does not stand up to rigorous scientific scrutiny. [emphasis added]

 

The consensus among health authorities and scientific community is that COVID-19 vaccines are a critical tool in reducing mortality and severe illness from the virus, with the benefits significantly outweighing the risks."

 

https://www.globalvaccinedatanetwork.org/blog/Vaccine_Victory_How_COVID-19_shots_slash_all-cause_mortality_and_outshine_misinformation

 

Global Vaccine Data Network:

 

About Us

The GVDN_® addresses limitations in vaccine safety

"Our aims are to work with vaccine safety and effectiveness experts, global health agencies, and other global non-profit health alliances to help assure the safety and risk benefit of vaccines through vaccine monitoring..."

 

[johng]

29 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

The truth will come out though but some will never accept it

Lets hope its quicker to come out than the tainted blood and post office scandals in the UK.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Can't you people read.  The conclusions of the study read:

Conclusions Excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. This raises serious concerns. Government leaders and policymakers need to thoroughly investigate underlying causes of persistent excess mortality.

 

That doesn't say COVID vaccines CAUSED deaths.. It says deaths occurred during a period when COVID and COVID vaccines were present.  Those two different concepts are WORLDS apart.

 

It's hardly surprising that, as the study correctly reports, many countries had high levels of excess deaths during the 2020-2021 years that were the peak of the COVID pandemic, and many people never even were vaccinated for that matter.

 

And as the news release accompanying the study specifically says:

 

"It’s not clear how many of these excess deaths reflect the impact of COVID-19 infection, or the indirect effects of containment measures and vaccination programmes, say the researchers.

 

While it’s likely that the indirect effects of containment measures did change the scale and nature of disease for numerous causes of death following the pandemic, those caused by restricted healthcare use and socioeconomic upheaval are difficult to prove, they add."

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1046663

 

 

The authors of this study don't know, and their study doesn't say.

 

 

 

[jas007]

This is not new news. Early on, insurance companies were dealing with “excess deaths” that were off the charts. These excess deaths began to occur after the “safe and effective” jabs were rolled out. Of course, these deaths were attributed to everything but the jabs.  At this point, countries around the world are beginning to recognize the obvious.  It’s too late, though, for the victims. And so, every day, we’re seeing stories about young, previously healthy adults who drop dead “unexpectedly.”  Heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, and so on.  And all over the world, oncologists are dealing with an astronomical rise in various types of cancer.  For example, colon cancer in young adults is skyrocketing.  

[AreYouGerman]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

....any possible links...........🤣

 

 

Here you are my friend:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329064-covid-vaccines-may-have-helped-fuel-rise-in-excess-deaths/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This, BTW, is a very peculiar study, in that it has been authored mostly by a group of pediatric cancer oncologists from the Netherlands whom, based on their bios, have no experience with COVID vaccines and have never published research on COVID related topics, except for a couple articles talking about how COVID pandemic restrictions impacted cancer care for children.

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

There are a few tell-tale signs however, of just what's going on here, including:

 

--it cites COVID infection fatality rate estimates from a Stanford professor, John Ioannidis, who once infamously predicted that the U.S. would only suffer 10,000 deaths from the COVID pandemic. [The actual figure thus far has ended up being about 1.2 million!]

 

Ioannidis in 2020:

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.”

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

--it includes a reference to an article by an "independent" French researcher claiming that COVID vaccines are "gene therapy" -- a notion that's been widely debunked and discredited.

No, COVID-19 vaccines aren’t gene therapy

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-covid-vaccines-gene-therapy-806280914802

 

----------------------------------------------

 

--it relies in talking about the extent of vaccine related reported adverse reactions from the original vaccine clinical trials on a paper by a U.S. doctor called Joseph Fraiman, who's been involved with misinfo peddling anti-vax politicians in Florida, and whose paper likewise has been widely discredited.

 

"The V-Damage Report also relies on a paper written by emergency medicine physician Dr. Joseph Fraiman and colleagues to argue that vaccine damages led to the rise in disabilities. As we’ve previously explained, the paper makes an unsubstantiated claim about adverse events based on a flawed reanalysis of the clinical trials of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna mRNA vaccines."

 

https://dallasexaminer.com/no-evidence-excess-deaths-linked-to-vaccines-contrary-to-claims-online/

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

--and, in talking about supposed vaccine adverse reactions, it relies on reported data from several public reporting systems -- VAERS in the U.S., the Yellow Card scheme in the UK, and Eudra in Europe where ANYBODY can report anything, and the data collected is specifically said by the collecting agencies to not be proof of any causal connection between the report and the given vaccine. In other words, unverified.

What VAERS Can and Can’t Do, and How Anti-Vaccination Groups Habitually Misuse Its Data

"But for nearly as long, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS, has also been exploited by people opposed to vaccination. With a publicly searchable database, full of unverified reports of health problems that occurred sometime after vaccination, VAERS has proven irresistible to the anti-vaccination community, which often falsely claims the number of reported deaths or other issues is proof that vaccines are dangerous."

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/06/scicheck-what-vaers-can-and-cant-do-and-how-anti-vaccination-groups-habitually-misuse-its-data/

 

------------------------------------------

 

All of the above pretty well suggests what the authors here are all about, and how much credibility to give to the way The Telegraph has misrepresented their data.

 

 

[atpeace]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That doesn't say COVID vaccines CAUSED deaths.. It says deaths occurred during a period when COVID and COVID vaccines were present.  Those two concepts are WORLDS apart.

 

It's hardly surprising that, as the study correctly reports, many countries had high levels of excess deaths during the 2020-2021 years that were the peak of the COVID pandemic, and many people never even were vaccinated for that matter.

 

And as the news release accompanying the study specifically says:

 

"It’s not clear how many of these excess deaths reflect the impact of COVID-19 infection, or the indirect effects of containment measures and vaccination programmes, say the researchers.

 

While it’s likely that the indirect effects of containment measures did change the scale and nature of disease for numerous causes of death following the pandemic, those caused by restricted healthcare use and socioeconomic upheaval are difficult to prove, they add."

 

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/1046663

 

 

The authors of this study don't know, and their study doesn't say.

 

 

 

 

Please post only  links and be considerate. You make some good points but they are lost because you copy and paste to no end.  I beg you to stop - my mouse roll finger aches.

[Kinnock]

"Could", "May" .....

 

It could also be a virus, may also be pollution, could be the Barbie movie, may be the Eurovision Song Contest.

 

Sensational reporting by the old news media trying to find relevance in  TikTok world.

 

[stevenl]

54 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

The first sentence under the headline.

Let's see that as part of the headline teaser, because it's not what the scientists said.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's also noteworthy that the study authors here cited many dozens of mostly old and obscure sources for their article citations, but managed to totally avoid what earlier this year was the largest ever international study done on the safety and risks of COVID vaccines:

 

That international study looking at actual medical records for some 99 million COVID vaccine recipients in multiple countries found as follows:

 

Posts misrepresent findings of world's largest Covid vaccine safety study

"Epidemiologist Anders Peter Hviid, one of the study authors, told AFP the findings confirm previous research and should not deter people from receiving Covid-19 shots.

 

"What we take away is that the Covid-19 vaccination campaigns have been very effective in preventing severe disease," he said on February 23. "The few serious side effects that we have observed in this and other studies have been rare." [emphasis added]

 

The Global Vaccine Data Network conducted the study misrepresented online, which included records from more than 99 million people vaccinated in Australia, Canada, France, Denmark, Scotland, Argentina, Finland and New Zealand.

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.34K78ZW

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, BigBruv said:

 

 

Tick Tock Blood Clot ⏰

 

Or ischaemic stroke, acute coronary syndrome and brain haemorrhage, cardiovascular diseases, coagulation, haemorrhages, gastrointestinal events

 

Tried to warn on here but it wasn't allowed.

 

Oh well.  Never mind.

 

 

The actual real science on that topic -- as opposed to made up nonsense like The Telegraph report above -- says that VACCINATED people overall have LOWER levels of non-COVID mortality than the unvaccinated.

 

A safety study evaluating non-COVID-19 mortality risk following COVID-19 vaccination

16 January 2023

 

• Non-COVID-19 mortality rates were lower among COVID-19 vaccinees in the US.

• Adjusted hazard ratios comparing COVID-19 vaccinees and comparators were below 1.
• No increased risk was found for non-COVID-19 mortality after COVID-19 vaccination.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22015614?via%3Dihub

 

 

AND

 

 

"Jeffrey Morris, a biostatistics professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine told AAP FactCheck in May 2023 that one way to test claims vaccines caused large numbers of deaths was to compare non-COVID mortality rates between people who have and haven’t had the jab.

 

Professor Morris said credible studies comparing the two groups found mortality was the same or lower among people who had the jab, indicating vaccines did not significantly increase the risk of death, as seen here and here.

 

Fewer than one per cent of people in the US sought medical care following COVID vaccination, this 2022 study shows.

 

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/data-debunks-wild-claim-of-one-billion-deaths/

 

 

Edited June 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Amethyst]

A post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims has been removed, along with an ensuing reply.

 

[BigBruv]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Lets hope its quicker to come out than the tainted blood and post office scandals in the UK.

 

The difference between 'conspiracy theory' and 'mainstream' is approx 2-3 years.

 

UK Govt did well with the tainted blood scandal (successfully covered up for 30+ years) but in this case much harder to hide as so many are affected.

Tainted blood scandal was approx 30K people vs the approx 30 million that took jabs in the UK

 

Oh well.

 

Merely suggesting jabs might have bad side affects or cause death  was enough to get you yeeted from this and other social media platforms a couple years ago. Now, it's being discussed in mainstream media so at least there's been some progress : )

[BigBruv]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

The headline doesn't match the text. Nowhere in the article are jabs blamed.

 

Print version picture under the post is clear:

 

"Covid Jabs may be to blame for increase in excess deaths"

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What's being discussed in the source report here is the widely acknowledged numbers of excess deaths in recent years attributed to COVID disease and various indirect effects of the pandemic.

 

It's only The Telegraph's unfounded report that makes claims that COVID vaccines were any kind of meaningful contributor -- something that simply isn't stated anywhere in the source report.

 

[BigBruv]

 

Spin it how you like but the dam has broken.

 

The Telegraph is a serious newspaper for grown ups.

 

Labelling every and any death as a 'covid death' is no longer gonna wash.

You may have gotten away with that a couple of years ago but not any more

especially as excess deaths continue to rise 👍

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The only dam that has broken here is the Telegraph, either intentionally or unintentionally, becoming part of the worldwide COVID vaccine misinformation pandemic...

 

And, contrary to your claim above, there's nothing in the cited report that says "excess deaths continue to rise."  Especially since the last year cited in the study was 2022 (2+ years ago now) and 2022 had a lower total excess deaths number (deaths from all causes beyond the expected norm) in the study than the two prior years, as the authors noted, at least in part because they only had partial incomplete data for 2022.

 

Four Years After Shelter-in-Place, Covid-19 Misinformation Persists

April 1, 2024

 

"on social media and in some public officials’ remarks, misinformation about covid vaccine efficacy and safety is common. U.S. presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has built his 2024 campaign on a movement that seeks to legitimize conspiracy theories about the vaccines. PolitiFact made that its 2023 “Lie of the Year.”

 

PolitiFact has seen claims that spike proteins from vaccines are replacing sperm in vaccinated males. (That’s false.) We’ve researched the assertion that vaccines can change your DNA. (That’s misleading and ignores evidence). Social media posts poked fun at Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce for encouraging people to get vaccinated, asserting that the vaccine actually shuts off recipients’ hearts. (No, it doesn’t.) And some people pointed to an American Red Cross blood donation questionnaire as evidence that shots are unsafe. (PolitiFact rated that False.)

 

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/fact-check-covid-19-misinformation-persists-vaccines-deaths/

 

PS - The Telegraph is a right-wing publication that regularly has gone out of its way to promote negative information about COVID vaccines.

 

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/

 

 

 

Edited June 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK