Covid vaccines may have helped fuel rise in excess deaths [disputed]

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The only dam that has broken here is the Telegraph, either intentionally or unintentionally, becoming part of the worldwide COVID vaccine misinformation pandemic...

 

And, contrary to your claim above, there's nothing in the cited report that says "excess deaths continue to rise."  Especially since the last year cited in the study was 2022 (2+ years ago now) and 2022 had a lower total excess deaths number (deaths from all causes beyond the expected norm) in the study than the two prior years, as the authors noted, at least in part because they only had partial incomplete data for 2022.

 

Four Years After Shelter-in-Place, Covid-19 Misinformation Persists

April 1, 2024

 

"on social media and in some public officials’ remarks, misinformation about covid vaccine efficacy and safety is common. U.S. presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has built his 2024 campaign on a movement that seeks to legitimize conspiracy theories about the vaccines. PolitiFact made that its 2023 “Lie of the Year.”

 

PolitiFact has seen claims that spike proteins from vaccines are replacing sperm in vaccinated males. (That’s false.) We’ve researched the assertion that vaccines can change your DNA. (That’s misleading and ignores evidence). Social media posts poked fun at Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce for encouraging people to get vaccinated, asserting that the vaccine actually shuts off recipients’ hearts. (No, it doesn’t.) And some people pointed to an American Red Cross blood donation questionnaire as evidence that shots are unsafe. (PolitiFact rated that False.)

 

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/article/fact-check-covid-19-misinformation-persists-vaccines-deaths/

 

 

To be fair the telegraph is far from the only mainstream media outlet carrying this, in fact a lengthier version is also here.

 

Covid vaccines may have contributed to rise in excess deaths, researchers suggest

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/covid-vaccines-may-have-contributed-to-rise-in-excess-deaths-researchers-suggest/news-story/cdf3a64c434c29a8ebc3215ab3aa335b

[BigBruv]

 

Maybe the excess deaths aren't rising as everyone with an even half functioning brain (inc. 70% of UK NHS staff) are refusing these modern 'vaccines'

 

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/idaps/CHADOX1 NCOV-19

 

 

Edited June 5 by BigBruv

[BigBruv]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

To be fair the telegraph is far from the only mainstream media outlet carrying this, in fact a lengthier version is also here.

 

Covid vaccines may have contributed to rise in excess deaths, researchers suggest

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/covid-vaccines-may-have-contributed-to-rise-in-excess-deaths-researchers-suggest/news-story/cdf3a64c434c29a8ebc3215ab3aa335b

 

Yeah but LTJ's website probably says that's a 'far right' publication so it doesn't count  😂

 

 

Edited June 5 by BigBruv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

To be fair the telegraph is far from the only mainstream media outlet carrying this, in fact a lengthier version is also here.

 

The source you cite is owned by the Australia subsidiary of the Murdoch family's News Corp in the U.S., with the related Fox News operation in the U.S. that brought the world stolen election claims and other nonsense. And ended up paying for it dearly via the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit settlement.

 

"News.com.au (stylised in all lowercase) is an Australian website owned by News Corp Australia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News.com.au

 

"News Corp Australia is an Australian media conglomerate and wholly owned subsidiary of the American News Corp."

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corp

 

Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News Network

"The settlement was one of the largest defamation settlements in U.S. history,^[60] and is believed to be the largest defamation settlement in U.S. history by a media organization.^[62]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems_v._Fox_News_Network

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

 

Maybe the excess deaths aren't rising as everyone with an evening half functioning brain (inc. 70% of UK NHS staff) are refusing these modern 'vaccines'

 

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/idaps/CHADOX1 NCOV-19

 

 

 

 

Yellow Card reports in the UK are just that, reports, that anyone can make, and not necessarily having verification that the given vaccine was the actual cause of whatever was being reported.

 

"Part of our monitoring role includes reviewing reports of suspected [emphasis added] side effects. Any member of the public or health professional can submit suspected side effects through the Yellow Card scheme. The nature of Yellow Card reporting means that reported events are not always proven side effects. Some events may have happened anyway, regardless of vaccination."

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

 

COVID-19 Vaccines

"Vaccines are the most effective way to prevent infectious diseases and they save millions of lives worldwide. Like all medicines, vaccines can cause side effects. Most of these are mild and short-term, and not everyone gets them."

https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The source you cite is owned by the Australia subsidiary of the Murdoch family's News Corp in the U.S., with the related Fox News operation in the U.S. that brought the world stolen election claims and other nonsense. And ended up paying for it dearly via the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit settlement.

 

"News.com.au (stylised in all lowercase) is an Australian website owned by News Corp Australia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News.com.au

 

"News Corp Australia is an Australian media conglomerate and wholly owned subsidiary of the American News Corp."

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corp

 

Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News Network

"The settlement was one of the largest defamation settlements in U.S. history,^[60] and is believed to be the largest defamation settlement in U.S. history by a media organization.^[62]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Voting_Systems_v._Fox_News_Network

 

 

Its also an approved credible source. I was just pointing it out that you claimed the telegraph was 

 

"The only dam that has broken here is the Telegraph, either intentionally or unintentionally, becoming part of the worldwide COVID vaccine misinformation pandemic"

 

The Telegraph is also an approved source. 

 

They can get things wrong sometimes as can other media outlets. They have both linked directly to the study.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/news-com-au/

[stats]

Several posts with unsourced claims of purported fact and commenting on fellow forum members have been removed.

 

Per the forum's rules:

 

" In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source."

 

"You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the forum or sent by private message are not allowed."

 

"You will not publicly discuss other members..."

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, jas007 said:

This is not new news. Early on, insurance companies were dealing with “excess deaths” that were off the charts. These excess deaths began to occur after the “safe and effective” jabs were rolled out. Of course, these deaths were attributed to everything but the jabs.  At this point, countries around the world are beginning to recognize the obvious.  It’s too late, though, for the victims. And so, every day, we’re seeing stories about young, previously healthy adults who drop dead “unexpectedly.”  Heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, and so on.  And all over the world, oncologists are dealing with an astronomical rise in various types of cancer.  For example, colon cancer in young adults is skyrocketing.  

 

And most of what you describe above has been shown to be unrelated to COVID vaccinations, despite persistent misinformation claims:

Claims baselessly link COVID vaccines to athlete deaths

"Cardiologists have told the AP there have been instances of athletes experiencing sudden cardiac death and cardiac arrest long before the COVID-19 pandemic and that they have not observed the dramatic increase alleged on social media."

 

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-covid-vaccines-athlete-deaths-1500-989195878254

 

 

‘Died suddenly’ posts twist tragedies to push vaccine lies

"But those facts didn’t matter online, where Anastasia was swiftly added to a growing list of hundreds of children, teens, athletes and celebrities whose unexpected deaths and injuries have been incorrectly blamed on COVID-19 shots. Using the hashtag #diedsuddenly, online conspiracy theorists have flooded social media with news reports, obituaries and GoFundMe pages in recent months, leaving grieving families to wrestle with the lies."

 

https://apnews.com/article/vaccine-died-suddenly-misinformation-a8e3a80a015ba9bf78b6bd4f3c271f58

 

 

False claim COVID-19 vaccines are linked to 'spike' in cancer cases

Our rating: False

"There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines cause cancer or are associated with a greater risk of developing cancer, experts said."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/03/13/covid-19-vaccines-are-not-linked-to-spike-in-cancer-fact-check/72943934007/

 

 

 

Edited June 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[BigBruv]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

despite persistent misinformation claims

 

Have you ever been a doctor Mr "TallGuyJohninBKK"? 

 

If not, who qualifies you to pontificate on whats true or untrue wrt to this 'covid' stuff?

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A Google search done as of Wednesday night -- COVID vaccine excess death content from the past 24 hours -- shows that the reporting about this study, and The Telegraph's unsupported version of it, has been mostly limited to a handful of well-known right-wing news sources... and none of the major mainstream media outlets or credible international news sources like the Associated Press, Reuters, Bloomberg, etc.  There's clearly a reason for that.

 

 

Source:

 

A non-partisan source like Physician's Weekly / HealthDay News had a not-surprisingly vastly different article reporting the findings of the OP study here, not blaming COVID vaccines for contributing to global excess deaths, because in fact the cited study here doesn't:

 

Excess Mortality Persisted in Western World From 2020 Through 2022

Jun 05, 2024

 

"TUESDAY, June 4, 2024 (HealthDay News) — Excess mortality persisted in 2020 through 2022 in the Western world, according to a study published online June 3 in BMJ Public Health.

 

Saskia Mostert, M.D., from Amsterdam UMC, and colleagues explored excess mortality in the Western world from 2020 to 2022 using all-cause mortality reports abstracted from the “Our World in Data” database. Historical death data were used from 2015 to 2019, accounting for seasonal variation and year-to-year trends.

...

“Excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of COVID-19 containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines,” the authors write. “This is unprecedented and raises serious concerns.”

 

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/excess-mortality-persisted-in-western-world-from-2020-through-2022/

 

And just to say again as said before... saying COVID excess deaths occurred during the time of COVID and COVID vaccines isn't the same thing as blaming COVID vaccines as a cause. The "concern" they're explicitly, chiefly expressing is about the high levels of excess deaths during the 2020-2022 period, which is the explicit topic of the study.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

 

Have you ever been a doctor Mr "TallGuyJohninBKK"? 

 

If not, who qualifies you to pontificate on whats true or untrue wrt to this 'covid' stuff?

 

 

I generally haven't expressed my personal opinions at all here, and I generally don't...

 

Instead, I've posted credible information from credible, non-partisan sources backed up by weblinks showing the original sources, not to mention posting and quoting from the OP study itself, which, unlike The Telegraph, has no language actually blaming COVID vaccines for causing any specific number or share of excess deaths.

 

Don't listen to me... Read the actual OP cited study. See what experts in the field have reported about the causes of excess deaths during the COVID era. See how the experts consistently report that COVID vaccination does NOT contribute to higher mortality rates, all cited and supported above. Read how the largest international study on COVID vaccine safety reported earlier this year that serious COVID vaccine side effects have been rare. Read the reports from the Associated Press, USA Today and others of how anti-vax folks have misrepresented and made false claims wrongly attributing deaths to COVID vaccines, etc etc...

 

None of the above is cherry picking. It's the consistent findings of credible experts in the field, often repeated in multiple studies and findings over time.

 

 

 

Edited June 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[BigBruv]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

credible information from credible sources

 

but unfortunately only those that support YOUR opinions / ego

 

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Don't listen to me...

 

I don't but I worry that some on here do and that your opinions could harm them.

 

Especially as you seem to have zero relevant medical knowledge or experience beyond copying and pasting walls of text along with LARGE FONTS to push your opinions. 

 

To clarify / get back to the question though:

Have you ever been a Doctor / Do you have any medical expertise or not?

 

Also, when you refer to 'right-wing news sources' are you saying left-wing news sources are better?Any examples?

If not, why mention right-wing?

 

Edited June 5 by BigBruv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not the one offering opinions. I'm leaving that to the credible experts, and just passing along their expertise.

 

[BigBruv]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm not the one offering opinions. I'm leaving that to the experts, and just passing along their expertise.

 

 

So you have zero expertise.

 

Your *opinions* in this thread include, and I quote: 

 

"made up nonsense like The Telegraph report"

"The Telegraph ... becoming part of the worldwide COVID vaccine misinformation pandemic..."

etc etc etc as per every covid thread.

 

Just because you don't like some information and it doesn't chime with your heavily biased opinions doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The actual study title as previously posted above... no mention of COVID vaccines in the title of the research.  If what the Telegraph reported was in fact a finding of the study, you'd think the study authors would have emphasized  / explicitly stated that claim. But they didn't, as shown below.  Their headline is nothing remotely the same as The Telegraph's headline, and both their headline and "Results" section are silent on the issue of causes.

 

 

Results The total number of excess deaths in 47 countries of the Western World was 3 098 456 from 1 January 2020 until 31 December 2022. Excess mortality was documented in 41 countries (87%) in 2020, 42 countries (89%) in 2021 and 43 countries (91%) in 2022. In 2020, the year of the COVID-19 pandemic onset and implementation of containment measures, records present 1 033 122 excess deaths (P-score 11.4%). In 2021, the year in which both containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines were used to address virus spread and infection, the highest number of excess deaths was reported: 1 256 942 excess deaths (P-score 13.8%). In 2022, when most containment measures were lifted and COVID-19 vaccines were continued, preliminary data present 808 392 excess deaths (P-score 8.8%).

 

 

https://bmjpublichealth.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000282

 

Edited June 5 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Red Phoenix]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its also an approved credible source. I was just pointing it out that you claimed the telegraph was 

 

"The only dam that has broken here is the Telegraph, either intentionally or unintentionally, becoming part of the worldwide COVID vaccine misinformation pandemic"

 

The Telegraph is also an approved source. 

 

They can get things wrong sometimes as can other media outlets. They have both linked directly to the study.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/news-com-au/

 

@Bkk Brian Well, that's quite fair and honest from you to point out that the Telegraph is not the only mainstream media source addressing this issue.  This contrary to TGJinBKK's continual posting of 'nothing to see here folks'.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

@Bkk Brian Well, that's quite fair and honest from you to point out that the Telegraph is not the only mainstream media source addressing this issue.  This contrary to TGJinBKK's continual posting of 'nothing to see here folks'.

Well at the end of the day, the Telegraph has the same credibility rating as the Guardian so while you can disagree with it, that does not make it a non credible source, the only difference being one is slanted left and the other right. Besides which the study has also been published in a respected journal and I do agree with the conclusions:

 

"In conclusion, excess mortality has remained high in the Western World for three consecutive years, despite the implementation of COVID-19 containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. This is unprecedented and raises serious concerns. During the pandemic, it was emphasised by politicians and the media on a daily basis that every COVID-19 death mattered and every life deserved protection through containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines. In the aftermath of the pandemic, the same morale should apply. Every death needs to be acknowledged and accounted for, irrespective of its
origin. Transparency towards potential lethal drivers is warranted. Cause-specific mortality data therefore need to be made available to allow more detailed, direct and robust analyses to determine the underlying contributors. Postmortem examinations need to be facilitated to allot the exact reason for death. Government leaders and policymakers need to thoroughly investigate underlying causes of persistent excess mortality and evaluate their health crisis policies."

 

The vaccines saved millions of lives, I am always on the look out to save more and if some of that is attributable to vaccine side effects and excess mortality then it needs to be open and transparent. No doubt many of them could be because containment measures and the consequences of cancer diagnosis etc, but as the study says, it needs further examination, that's how science works

 

 

 

[jaywalker2]

An analysis of the paper and the excess death question:

 

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

Does this mean that all that dangerous misinformation was really a series of spoiler alerts?

 

[gamb00ler]

15 hours ago, BigBruv said:

The truth will come out though but some will never accept it

I agree ..... but the actual truth will be a set of possible causes each of which will occur with an approximated frequency.  We will never know enough to be more accurate than that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The truth will out on this eventually regarding the unsupported nature of the claim made blaming COVID vaccines in The Telegraph's headline. But won't matter, as the anti-vax crowd got what they wanted, a headline to claim and use as a political/PR weapon.

 

Most posters here probably have only seen the newspaper article's headline. Maybe some have read the whole newspaper article. I wonder how many here have actually read word-by-word the entire cited study as I have, several times over now.

 

There's simply NO place in the cited study where they give any estimate or projection for what share or what number of excess deaths in the studied countries may have been related to COVID vaccines. NONE.

 

For anyone here who actually has read the entire study that's the basis for The Telegraph's report, I challenge you to post here any text from the actual study providing any estimate or projection of the share of excess deaths related to vaccination. It's simply not there.

 

(There is, just for the record, some discussion in the study about various potential vaccine adverse reactions... that as I've documented in earlier posts here, is based on a widely debunked study by an anti-vax doctor and on public database reports like VAERS in the U.S. where the sources clearly state that the reports themselves are no proof that vaccines were in fact the causes of the reported adverse reaction.)

 

Edited June 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And meanwhile, we have more non-partisan reports on the same study that don't follow The Telegraph's unsupported claims. Yes there's concern about the high levels of excess deaths during the pandemic, but no blaming of COVID vaccines below in reporting on the study.

 

Latest example:

 

Study: High excess death rates in the West for 3 years running since start of pandemic despite containment and vaccines

 

Excess death rates have remained high in the West for three years running since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, finds a data analysis of 47 countries published in BMJ Public Health.

 

This is despite the implementation of various containment measures and the availability of COVID-19 vaccines, giving rise to "serious cause for concern," say the researchers, who call on governments and policymakers to thoroughly investigate the underlying causes.

...

It's not clear how many of these excess deaths reflect the impact of COVID-19 infection, or the indirect effects of containment measures and vaccination programs, say the researchers [citing language from the news release issued about the study].

 

(more)

 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-06-high-excess-death-west-years.html

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And the publicity over this may be behind the following report from the South China Morning Post, where the Singapore Health Ministry has flatly rejected claims of any connection between excess death rates and COVID vaccines.

Singapore slams opposition claims linking Covid vaccines to excess deaths

Singapore’s Health Ministry has rejected an opposition party’s calls for the suspension of Covid-19 vaccination, claiming high incidences of severe side effects.

...

The health ministry said it categorically rejected the egregious and false claims, adding that people must “draw the right conclusions and follow the scientific evidence on the safety and effectiveness of Covid-19 vaccines”.

 

“The primary reason why Singapore recorded one of the lowest excess death rates in the world during the pandemic is because the majority of Singaporeans took the vaccines,” it said.

 

(more)

 

Source link:

Edited June 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[xylophone]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The actual real science on that topic -- as opposed to made up nonsense like The Telegraph report above -- says that VACCINATED people overall have LOWER levels of non-COVID mortality than the unvaccinated.

 

A safety study evaluating non-COVID-19 mortality risk following COVID-19 vaccination

16 January 2023

 

• Non-COVID-19 mortality rates were lower among COVID-19 vaccinees in the US.

• Adjusted hazard ratios comparing COVID-19 vaccinees and comparators were below 1.
• No increased risk was found for non-COVID-19 mortality after COVID-19 vaccination.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X22015614?via%3Dihub

 

 

AND

 

 

"Jeffrey Morris, a biostatistics professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine told AAP FactCheck in May 2023 that one way to test claims vaccines caused large numbers of deaths was to compare non-COVID mortality rates between people who have and haven’t had the jab.

 

Professor Morris said credible studies comparing the two groups found mortality was the same or lower among people who had the jab, indicating vaccines did not significantly increase the risk of death, as seen here and here.

 

Fewer than one per cent of people in the US sought medical care following COVID vaccination, this 2022 study shows.

 

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/data-debunks-wild-claim-of-one-billion-deaths/

 

 

It matters not how much factual and verifiable information you post, the ant-vax brigade will still be exactly that....anti-vax and conspiracy theory nutjobs. Oblivious to all but their own twisted and misshapen views.

 

Carry on your good work. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Singapore Health Ministry is urging people to follow the science on this subject, so let's do some more of that -- another example of what the consensus of scientific research on this topic shows -- no increased risk of death from COVID vaccination:

Effect of COVID-19 vaccination on mortality by COVID-19 and on mortality by other causes, the Netherlands, January 2021–January 2022

12 July 2023

 

"The risk of non-COVID-19 mortality was lower or similar in the 5 or 8 weeks following a first dose compared to no vaccination, as well as following a second dose compared to one dose and a booster compared to two doses, for all age and long-term care groups.

...

Conclusion

At the population level, COVID-19 vaccination greatly reduced the risk of COVID-19 mortality and no increased risk of death from other causes was observed.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X23006606?via%3Dihub

 

AND

 

COVID-19 Vaccination and Non–COVID-19 Mortality Risk — Seven Integrated Health Care Organizations, United States, December 14, 2020–July 31, 2021\

 

October 29, 2021

 

"During December 2020–July 2021, COVID-19 vaccine recipients had lower rates of non–COVID-19 mortality than did unvaccinated persons after adjusting for age, sex, race and ethnicity, and study site.

 

What are the implications for public health practice?

There is no increased risk for mortality among COVID-19 vaccine recipients. This finding reinforces the safety profile of currently approved COVID-19 vaccines in the United States."

...

Discussion

In a cohort of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million demographically similar unvaccinated persons, recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Janssen vaccines had lower non–COVID-19 mortality risk than did the unvaccinated comparison groups. There is no increased risk for mortality among COVID-19 vaccine recipients. This finding reinforces the safety profile of currently approved COVID-19 vaccines in the United States."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm

 

 

[BigBruv]

45 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

Carry on your good work. 

 

& please carry on taking yer boosters 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Another mainstream, non-partisan news report on the cited study that does NOT blame COVID vaccines as being a cause for pandemic excess deaths. And specifically points out that the study's authors don't fully detail the causes for the reported excess deaths.

 

First 3 years of COVID-19 had 3M excess deaths in the West: study

June 3, 2024

 

The first three years of the COVID-19 pandemic had more than three million excess deaths in Western countries, a new study says, raising “serious concerns.”

 

The research published in the BMJ Public Health journal Monday showed that between January 1, 2020 and December 31, 2022, a total of 3,089,465 excess deaths were reported in 47 countries in the West, including Canada.

...

What's behind the excess deaths?

While the BMJ study did not specifically examine the causes of the persistently high excess deaths in the West during the pandemic [emphasis added], the authors said non-pharmaceutical interventions to curb COVID-19 spread had “adverse indirect effects,” such as limited access to healthcare, disrupted health programmes and mental health challenges “that increased morbidity and mortality from other causes.”

 

(more)

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/10541434/excess-deaths-western-countries-covid-pandemic-study/

 

 

Edited June 6 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[transam]

11 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

 

& please carry on taking yer boosters 

 

If it is advised by scientific evidence then why not...

Edited June 6 by stats
personal comments removed

[BigBruv]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

 

If it is advised by scientific evidence then why not...

 

I agree, if people still want them they should be given as many as they want - free of charge too.

 

Great investment for our home country's Governments as thge main takers (boomer pensioners) no longer contribute to the system

and others could spend that money just as well

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by BigBruv

[transam]

1 minute ago, BigBruv said:

 

I agree, if people still want them they should be given as many as they want - free of charge too.

 

Great investment for our home country's Governments as thge main takers (pensioners) no longer contribute to the system

and others could spend that money just as well

 

 

 

Why are you concerned about cost, isn't saving life the goal of medicine.....? 🤔