Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[MalcolmB]

18 minutes ago, NedR69 said:

Less than a month and I'm out.  F this crap and all the snowflakes. If you leave too, start thinking now how to move your money OUT of a Thai bank.  Wise doesn't do that.  Dee money sucks, and many are still waiting for their transfer to process several weeks after initiating the transfer.  WU fee is ok, but their rate sucks.  Swift transfer may be the best option.  Plan now, if you have 800k or more to move out.

 

It's not just the new tax law, but it will be the last nail in the coffin and I'm not waiting around to find out. Even if it doesn't go thru, I've had it here to the point of deciding to go. 

 

Insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

I see better options that have clean air, safer to drive/travel/live, and equally affordable.

 

Less than a month, and counting!

 

So you are the golden goose they are referring to.

Do you think after one year you will be missed or even remembered?

[MarkBR]

If they drive expats away they will not be coming back.  Maybe some connected-up long term thinking is required.  I know, not a Thai strong point.

[lordgrinz]

"May"? That ship has sailed.

 

Quote

Tax reforms MAY drive away expats

 

[zyphodb]

1 hour ago, Lopburikid said:

It hasn't even been passed through yet. This was proposed by a PM and a deputy PM who really didn't like farangs. They say it won't even be debated until the beginning of 2025, plus, there is quite a lot of opposition to is as it will effect Thais as well as foreigners. The PM of today and her family were always very farang friendly. So wait and see. As for the agents and IOs they will always find away round it.   

 

Thexsin and family farang friendly? you gotta be kidding...

[ujayujay]

My Words: Tax reforms will drive away expats......bye bye Thailand

[watchcat]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Pension into a Thai bank directly?

 

In my case yes

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, zakalwe said:

The golden goose is the stupid tourist, not the savvy expat.

The OP is about tax reforms, one can only think you believe tourists to be tax residents.

[lordgrinz]

33 minutes ago, loong said:

I am quite sure that they didn't dream this up just to give us expats something to debate and moan about!
They just see it as easy pickings. It doesn't occur to them that wealthier expats may just leave and retire elsewhere.

Most of us already pay more tax than most Thais by VAT etc.

 

Many say that what expats contribute is negligible when compared to the bigger picture and it may be, but it is not negligible for the 1000's of families that we support and the knock-on effect.

 

Sounds almost like the tax logic used in California, now mass exodus to other states.

[mrmicbkktxl]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why not tell them you have no bank accounts outside Thailand?

If they were to ask (unlikely).

Since 2023 they can see everything and can get all information they need,I think it's called OECD CRS ,Thailand joined last year.

[kiwikeith]

4 hours ago, zakalwe said:

The golden goose is the stupid tourist, not the savvy expat.

Rubbish 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, WoodyKenny said:

Oh it's on.. They just killed their future to Build and Buy housing. Gotta be more than 500 homes on the market for sale in Hua Hin area alone.  And to you that feel we don't pay our fair share. In 2022 alone Thailand Tourist brought in 1.2 TRILLION Thai Baht to the GDP.  Let's say you now as we don't contribute. I'm sure the Philippines or Vietnam would love that cash!   With a Failed system you get Greed...

Even worse, they're talking about charging foreigners extra tax on property (Purchases & annual property tax).

 

Best laugh is their justification for doing this is that foreigners bought more property in 2023 than they did in 2020, 2021, 2022.... Hmm, by any chance could a global pandemic shutting the country down for 3 years have anything to do with less foreigners coming to Thailand to buy property? 

 

[watchcat]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

 

I expect the Thaksin government to fall in a few months

 

I hope so.

[BE88]

36 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That's nonsense, no taxation without representation refers to one country being governed and taxed by another, that is not the case here. Everyone pays tax where ever they live and work, Thailand is no different. And there's no reason to expect benefits in Thailand which are driven by the Social Security system, to which expats don't pay (except those with work permits).

 

A country's GDP is the sum of all money spent or earned so yes, that 65k - 150k a month spent locally is a part of GDP, of which foreigner contributions are minimal.

 

What you say is non sense if it is as you say that we do not count for anything then why tax us also on our global income?

 

So they have surely calculated that there is a lot of $$$$ coming soon.

 

[newbee2022]

Seems Malaysia is a better option. But bad for those who want to stay their life shagging sluts in eg Pattaya.

[bdenner]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

So where do either your monthly transfer, or your living expenses come from please?

Pension into a Thai bank directly?

We had a reasonably well off UK pensioner pass away some time ago. Both his TW and Daughter (18yo attending university) get a percentage of his private pensions paid directly into their Thai Bank accounts. The TW is not a UK passport holder pays UK tax at 30% (flat rate), the Daughter gets the tax refunded as she has a passport but does not meet the UK tax threshold.

 

Are they going to get caught up in this crap?

[Celsius]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Seems Malaysia is a better option. But bad for those who want to stay their life shagging sluts in eg Pattaya.

 

Shagging sluts, eating Thai slop, Paying 500 bux for a chicken farm condo.

 

KL beats Bangkok/Pattaya on every point.

[CallumWK]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Why not tell them you have no bank accounts outside Thailand?

If they were to ask (unlikely).

 

Nobody cares if you have bank accounts outside Thailand.

Tax agreements are between governments, not between banks, so Thailand will know what you earn in your home country, and they don't in which bank that money goes

[Expat68]

2 minutes ago, bdenner said:

We had a reasonably well off UK pensioner pass away some time ago. Both his TW and Daughter (18yo attending university) get a percentage of his private pensions paid directly into their Thai Bank accounts. The TW is not a UK passport holder pays UK tax at 30% (flat rate), the Daughter gets the tax refunded as she has a passport but does not meet the UK tax threshold.

 

Are they going to get caught up in this crap?

Probably but if it does not reach UK tax threshold it may not reach the Thai tax threshold also

[sandyf]

Speculation can bring about otherwise unconsidered views into the debate, possibly the architect of a new regime.

From the OP.

"There is speculation on social media that annual stay extensions might soon require income tax clearance in Thailand. This rumor has not been confirmed by the Cabinet or immigration authorities and could create issues for long-term visa holders who spend less than six months per year in Thailand."

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Let him vent, ageism is the only ism left.

 

But aren't we glad we are Boomers, I would want to get old in 10  years..

 

Sorry to hear you are a boomer.... not many years left for ya !

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Nobody cares if you have bank accounts outside Thailand.

Tax agreements are between governments, not between banks, so Thailand will know what you earn in your home country, and they don't in which bank that money goes

You are wrong, it is the banks that provide the information under the CRS agreements.

The information however is limited to account value and and any income attributed to that account such as interest or dividends.

Not everything or everyone is reportable. The account is only reportable if it appears to belong to  someone in a different tax residency to where the account is held.

[Xonax]

I fully understand why Thailand are planning to tax expats in the country. At the moment Thailand is one of the few countries that are not already doing so. BUT when being fully taxed, all expats should also be able to enjoy the exact same benefits as Thai citizens, like 30 Baht hospital visits, getting the Thai-rate in private hospitals and not being overcharged everywhere we go! Having only a low pension, that would actually be a win-win situation for me. 

[Dazinoz]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Currently, only income transferred into Thailand is taxed, with the new regulations set to take effect in January 2024.

 

Are we not past that date already?

 

Its a pity proof reading not carried out in a lot of these stories.

[BE88]

5 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Sorry to hear you are a boomer.... not many years left for ya !

 

Maybe another 20, who knows

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

How the hell are they going to find out what your worldwide income is?

 

As a expat here.

 

If you have multiple bank accounts in multiple countries, like some people I know and you tell them you have 1 account in 1 country.

 

They have no way of knowing anything different.

 

Totally absurd.

They "could" require to see ones own tax return from home country. I have to file a 1040 each year which details all my income...private pension and social security, dividend and interest income, investment income, 401k and IRAs and any stock/fund sales. Everything. Unless one cheats on a tax return...it's all in there. 

[Sydebolle]

Well, I am looking forward to the challenges which await the Ministry of Finance. Most tax-related documents are in the national language of the issuing country; Korean, Japanese, Spanish, German and French spring to mind. 

The different accrual of taxation, marred with double taxation treaties and exemption rules throw in extra challenges. And this in a country, where common sense is literally unknown, it is almost impossible to get low skilled labour and a university degree of a local education institute is insufficient to tie up shoe laces? 

On the other side of the fence, why should Thailand cream off taxes on overseas activities and what is Thailand offering in return like access to health services irrespective of nationality, education for off springs in a Thai educational institute and riddance of a two-tier pricing mania which has taken over everything everywhere? 

It is an American taxation model -  understandable - as the US has a "defense" budget of bordering 900 billion (not million) USD to "defend" their country against the warmongering Mexicans and the aggressive Canadians. The rest of the war chest is burnt in 80 conflicts all over the world just to please the local war gear industry owned by the selected few. 

You cannot burn money by the pile for submarines, F16s, unnecessary infrastructure projects, airports etc. and then think, that the non-Thai sheep on the way to the financial slaughterhouse will not realize, what really goes on. 

Thailand could optimize the household budget by billions if not trillions if run by professionals and everybody would get their slice of the tax burden. Tax optimization is the name of the game and only in Thailand they feature "proper tax planning" for the rich as they certainly don't pay 35% taxes on their entire income but benefit of all those little loopholes everywhere. In addition to that nobody asks questions to a higher level in the Phooyai class 8-) 

Good luck with that one; the wealthier non-Thais are considering leaving and some have left already. Do NEVER forget, that all non-Thais packed up their stuff and moved already once - here namely to Thailand. And there is absolutely nothing those goons in the Thai government can do to prevent, that those very same non-Thais will pack up and move .... again! 

Those who have left will never return, and instead of letting those non-Thais spend their money straight into the Thai economy the greedies now want to take that cut to the disadvantage of the SMEs. And, as said, once gone, both the government as well as the private industry will see a serious drop in income - trust me on that! 

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, mikeymike100 said:

Absolutely, how on Earth will they, Thailand, find out how much money you have in another country, especially if you don't move it to Thailand?

Exactly, 

[Thaindrew]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

They should look what is happening in China. They have driven all the expats and foreign companies out and Beijing and Shanghai are like a tomb.

The proposal here is worse than in China, expats dont pay tax for the first 5 years in China and can re start that 5 years by leaving for 3 months 

[MartinL]

35 minutes ago, bdenner said:

We had a reasonably well off UK pensioner pass away some time ago. Both his TW and Daughter (18yo attending university) get a percentage of his private pensions paid directly into their Thai Bank accounts. The TW is not a UK passport holder pays UK tax at 30% (flat rate), the Daughter gets the tax refunded as she has a passport but does not meet the UK tax threshold.

 

Are they going to get caught up in this crap?

A Thai national living in Thailand is entitled to the £12,570 tax free allowance available to UK citizens. 0% tax on that amount then 20% up to about £50 k. There's some paperwork involved - isn't there always!! - but probably worth it if her inherited pension is a reasonable amount.

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm10340    (about halfway down the page)

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Ironmike said:

I know that a lot of people will disagree with this but I don't give a crap,,, Thailand needs to get rid of these stupid old gready men in charge throw Taksin and his family back out of the country and elect a new government that is for their people not themselves,, it needs new blood new ideas and a new way forward,, yeah never going to happen. 

Especially with the current education system...the elite send their kids  to schools elsewhere and then they do favors for others in power positions, so that they can take care of their children too.