27 minutes ago, thesetat said:

It sure as heck was not a democracy before Trump. 

Always the  need to justify the right wing excess's/madness, by blaming others.  Why not admit you never wanted a democracy, no matter flawed or not?   

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your just repeating Trump lies about the European help. Shame on you. 

As far as long cutoffs you're ignorance is STUNNING.

The republican house cut off aid to Ukraine for EIGHT MONTHS!

Why are you even posting on this topic with such a weak knowledge base?

Who is the ignorant one here? You point blank refuse to hear anything other than  that of the westerm msm, you label everything that you don't like Kremlin propaganda and refuse to accept anything Trump says due to derangement.

Russia is far superior and stronger than Ukraine. Ukraine is being propped up by the western countries and getting itself further and further into debt.

Without the US backing of miliary equipmant its over, just more people dying for no gain.

Time for you to and the rest to wake up to reality. A few of us here have been telling you this for a while. Same for the the minerals. you'd not heard about them in the news until Trump, now you think its something new and all trump wants, they are the reason the US was funding Ukraine from the beginning also look into foreign corporation investments in Ukraine now. Your naive to still think in 2025 that any war is about 'the people'.

 

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

Nothing is gained from giving them free money and supplies when all they do is maintain the front and nothing is given in return for the money spent on them. 

Utterly distasteful remarks like only a Russian boot kisser might spout.  Many view the U.S.'s opportunistic approach, exploiting Ukraine’s resources while offering little for its victimization by Russia, as deeply distasteful. The U.S. absence from London peace talks may be preferable if it cannot engage constructively, avoiding further criticism for prioritizing self-interest over Ukraine’s sovereignty and security.

9 minutes ago, thesetat said:

So what you are saying is that, if any country gets into a war. US citizens should flip the bill and pay for it. With no hope of getting any kind of return in it either economically or politically. If so, there are lots of other small wars the US can pay for with the same hope of not getting any kind of return. 

 

Negotiations did not happen because of Zelenski's refusal and i believe i read Russia had a previous warrant about not being allowed near Zelenski. Not certain about that part though I do recall reading it when their first meeting to negotiate a deal failed to happen. The fact is though. If Zelenski refused to make a pact with the US. If Zelenski should not even be their leader still because of cancelled elections. Why should the US support them? What hope is there of a concession?  What hope is there of a deal when Zelenski is unwilling to negotiate any kind of deals? I really do not understand why this is so hard to digest? Russia is continuing what they began and will not stop. Eventually, Russia will win. But at what cost is this to the US? Only the monetary loss and losing their assets that could have been negotiated as a plan to keep American interests in protecting their country. 

Would you supply your money to the loser knowing that when it was all finished you gained nothing? Do you throw your money out on the streets for anyone to take? 

Don't forget, the USA has to borrow that money to give it away, to pay for the war, as not enough tax revenue to cover their own cost of running the USA.

 

Doesn't everyone borrow money to give it away 

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Time for you to and the rest to wake up to reality.

This kind of surrender monkey rhetoric is misguided in the extreme. The reality is if Russia does not retreat and surrender monkeys allow Russia aggression to pay off, they won't stop with Ukraine.

9 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

Always the  need to justify the right wing excess's/madness, by blaming others.  Why not admit you never wanted a democracy, no matter flawed or not?   

Why would you suggest that... blaming others? I should blame myself? Really? 

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't forget, the USA has to borrow that money to give it away, to pay for the war, as not enough tax revenue to cover their own cost of running the USA.

 

Doesn't everyone borrow money to give it away 

perhaps Jingthing does

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is crap. Trump is giving an ultimatum now. It includes forcing Ukraine to recognize Crimea as Russia. Ukraine can't do that. That is NOT a negotiation! 

Crimea is now a part of Russia, along with parts of the Donbas.  What Zelensky wants is fantasy.

 

Trump and Putin will find a way to end the war, with or without Zelenskyy.  Or, the US is done and Ukraine will be in a worse position.  Without the USA, Ukraine has nothing, except, perhaps, some idle threats from the EU to continue the war with EU support.  

1 minute ago, WorriedNoodle said:

This kind of surrender monkey rhetoric is misguided in the extreme. The reality is if Russia does not retreat and surrender monkeys allow Russia aggression to pay off, they won't stop with Ukraine.

You need to stop reading what ever you are for your news, Putin has no intention of anything other that now in the East of Ukraine, he has been in power for 20 years already...dont you use logical, rational thinking?

'Surrender' is Your cold war mentality shining through. You are no where near the fighting so its easy for you to say that crap, while people die.

15 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

You need to stop reading what ever you are for your news, Putin has no intention of anything other that now in the East of Ukraine, he has been in power for 20 years already...dont you use logical, rational thinking?

'Surrender' is Your cold war mentality shining through. You are no where near the fighting so its easy for you to say that crap, while people die.

It's not news silly, read and learn from history. Historical precedents suggest that expansionist powers often don't stop until they're met with significant resistance or diplomatic pressure. Current US-supported rhetoric, however, seems to dismiss this concern, suggesting Putin's goals are limited to Eastern Ukraine. This underestimates the potential for further escalation or miscalculate Russia's long-term ambitions.

 

After you've been been robbed and had your home ransacked in some Rustbelt town filled with MAGA billboards and your family killed you don't do deals with the perp, you punish them for their misdeeds.

2 hours ago, Social Media said:

…the only way for the killing to stop is that both armies put down their weapons.”

Such a deep thought. But probably exhausting for Vance. 

A summary of what has happened so far:

 

Trump/Vance demand that Zelenskiy and Putin come to the negotiating table.

 

Zelenskiy agrees.  Putin refuses.

 

Trump/Vance:  UkRaINe Is AT FauLt!

 

How any can conclude that Trump/Vance are not in Putin's pocket, it's unfathomable.

12 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

It's not news silly, read and learn from history. Historical precedents suggest that expansionist powers often don't stop until they're met with significant resistance or diplomatic pressure. Current US-supported rhetoric, however, seems to dismiss this concern, suggesting Putin's goals are limited to Eastern Ukraine. This underestimates the potential for further escalation or miscalculate Russia's long-term ambitions.

 

After you've been been robbed and had your home ransacked in some Rustbelt town filled with MAGA billboards and your family killed you don't do deals with the perp, you punish them for their misdeeds.

 

Nixon understood the Russians a lot better than Trump.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

 This is pretty clear he does not want to end the war. 

The US should not support a country for an ongoing war that no-one wants to see ended. It is a waste of tax-payers money. 

Nothing is gained from giving them free money and supplies when all they do is maintain the front and nothing is given in return for the money spent on them. 

Wanting to maintain the borders of your country from an invader is primarily what the war is about for Ukraine.

 

Trump inserted himself in this situation as "peace maker" and he does not have the intellect or diplomatic experience to do that. He's only looking for what he can get out of the "deal" as that's the only play he knows and he's not even good at that. The US should remove themselves from the negotiations but maintain support. Russia is just playing him and it's not gonna end unless Russia is ready for it to end. This is where NATO should step up as the negotiator as that's partly the issue that Russia has in this situation

1 hour ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski should not even be their leader anymore. He used the war as an excuse to cancel elections so he could maintain power in his country. As soon as the war is ended, his position in government will end also. 

I've always loved this bit of Russian agitprop that Trumpies swallow so eagerly.

 

"Ukraine's constitution doesn't permit elections when a large part of the country is occupied by a foreign invader.  ZELENSKIY IS A DICTATOR!"

 

Meanwhile, the ACTUAL dictator who is in office for life, who kills opponents, shut down the free press, bans free assembly, and cooks "elections" -- THAT'S the guy they support.  Do you guys have any self-awareness at all of how stupid you look?

We all know Maga supports  Russia why? Because TRUMP SAYS SO. 

50 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Verbal diarrhea as usual as that's all his narcissistic brain can muster. As a negotiator you work with both sides to find common ground or reasonable concessions that both can live with. Trump and Vance have done nothing toward that end nor do they have the mental capacity to accomplish it. They are just looking for what they can get out of the deal. Blaming Ukraine for Russia's aggression is asinine on their part and shows their lack of intellect and diplomatic experience. No super power respects either of them and they are just being played for the idiots they are, they should remove themselves from negotiations and just work on support for Ukraine along side the EU and Nato. Trump and Vance bring no value to the table.

2 hours ago, thesetat said:

The negotiations are over. Zelenski had a chance to ally with US by signing a deal with them. They instead turned the meeting into a farce and getting thrown out of the WH. 

Up to now those negotiations have not ceded anything. So why, would the US protect the Ukraine if there is no vested interest or benefit to the US? 

What happened to Trump's promise to end the war in 24 hours?  Just more of Trump's BS.

51 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

We all know Maga supports  Russia why? Because TRUMP SAYS SO. 

Yes, that's a big part of it.  But I think there's more.

 

**Fringe rightwing media (no longer fringe anymore actually) are infiltrated or outright produced by bad foreign actors.  As long as they aren't reading the "Western MSM" MAGA-Headswill gladly slurp down whatever slop is fed to them, never question its source, and faithfully regurgitate it.

**There is a misdirected aspect of conservatism here -- when it comes to gender roles, few countries are less woke than Russia, so MAGA-Heads think they are owning the libs by admiring Russia.  Nevermind that in every other respect, Russia is a cesspit for family values and ACTUAL conservatism.

**There is a severe dissonance in MAGA Russia support -- while they have problems with some attention-grabbing aspects of Western culture (don't we all!), they happily ignore the fact that 1) Russia is usually the worst of the worst in many things MAGA-Heads claim to value and 2) they themselves, while reviling the West, happily remain to enjoy the prosperity, freedom, and comforts it provides.

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

It's not news silly, read and learn from history. Historical precedents suggest that expansionist powers often don't stop until they're met with significant resistance or diplomatic pressure. Current US-supported rhetoric, however, seems to dismiss this concern, suggesting Putin's goals are limited to Eastern Ukraine. This underestimates the potential for further escalation or miscalculate Russia's long-term ambitions.

 

After you've been been robbed and had your home ransacked in some Rustbelt town filled with MAGA billboards and your family killed you don't do deals with the perp, you punish them for their misdeeds.

Brought to you by the western fear mongering propaganda machine.

26 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

What happened to Trump's promise to end the war in 24 hours?  Just more of Trump's BS.

It is clear by now that Trump has failed dramatically in Ukraine. He has not ended the war in 24 hours and will not do so in 100 days either as he promised. His leadership and mediating drive has stalled and its strategy unclear. He is indecisive and ineffective. His only strategy out of this is to pressure Ukraine into capituating to Russia. Putin shunned any meeting with Trump and he is waiting for Trump is stop military aid before launching a big scale invasion. Ukraine will have to fight for the life. Trump's legacy will be a disgrace and will further drive a wedge with allies. Trump lack the leverage to make Putin reconsider and Putin is playing Trump like a fiddle. 

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

A summary of what has happened so far:

 

Trump/Vance demand that Zelenskiy and Putin come to the negotiating table.

 

Zelenskiy agrees.  Putin refuses.

 

Trump/Vance:  UkRaINe Is AT FauLt!

 

How any can conclude that Trump/Vance are not in Putin's pocket, it's unfathomable.

That is total BS,

3 hours ago, thesetat said:

Zelenski should not even be their leader anymore. He used the war as an excuse to cancel elections so he could maintain power in his country. As soon as the war is ended, his position in government will end also. 

Elections are not allowed by the constitution during wartime. Turn off Fox Propaganda.

20 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Brought to you by the western fear mongering propaganda machine.

Better that than Russian Troll-bots.

18 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

That is total BS,

Which part, Frank?

7 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

Elections are not allowed by the constitution during wartime. Turn off Fox Propaganda.

Zelenski and his government made and passed that law this year. Duh!! Not Fox propaganda. 

https://www.jurist.org/news/2025/02/ukraine-parliament-affirms-no-elections-during-wartime-under-martial-law/

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

What happened to Trump's promise to end the war in 24 hours?  Just more of Trump's BS.

It was a campaign promise. Very few of his campaign promises have failed. But you can not blame him as at least he is trying to stop it. Biden just wanted to supply more and more and more weapons and money to keep it going. 

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I've always loved this bit of Russian agitprop that Trumpies swallow so eagerly.

 

"Ukraine's constitution doesn't permit elections when a large part of the country is occupied by a foreign invader.  ZELENSKIY IS A DICTATOR!"

 

Meanwhile, the ACTUAL dictator who is in office for life, who kills opponents, shut down the free press, bans free assembly, and cooks "elections" -- THAT'S the guy they support.  Do you guys have any self-awareness at all of how stupid you look?

As i see it... both are dictators in your sense of the word.. 

5 minutes ago, thesetat said:

It was a campaign promise. Very few of his campaign promises have failed. But you can not blame him as at least he is trying to stop it. Biden just wanted to supply more and more and more weapons and money to keep it going. 

Campaign promise or not, still BS.