2 hours ago, newnative said:

   I did touch on them in my final paragraph but you are right, lots of construction on the bright side, as well.  I posted a thread recently on Pattaya condo projects past and future and there were a number of large ones listed for the next few years, in addition to the ones under construction now.  If you have been here 20 years, you probably fondly remember, as I do, the annual "Is Pattata Dead" threads on Thai Visa.  Answer, then and now:  No.

Yes, we get them frequently, probably more than once a year - the "Pattaya is doomed" threads, written by people who don't have a clue and wish it upon Pattaya for some weird reason.  Maybe they are living in "Nakonsonowhere" bored out of their brains. After 20 years, I'm pretty sure we know a thing or two about Thailand and the best places to live. I've never been tempted to leave Pattaya... and I don't even go to bars.

 

Pattaya could close all the beer bars and go-go clubs today, and it will still do well after an adjustment period. The place has moved well past these fading attractions. My girlfriend works for a high-profile real estate development company which is responsible for a lot of major condo developments. They have no problem selling them and filling them up. These days, they target wealthy Asian buyers. Russians are major customers too. I read a report in the media about how the real estate market is doing badly around Thailand due to the economy and high interest rates. Her reply was "not in Pattaya - It's doing fine".

 

I recently moved to the dark side, but only just -  just over the 2nd Road rail line in the Naklua area. I'm lucky to see a foreigner 2 or 3 times a month. Pattaya has everything anyone would need. You need quiet places to live - no problem. If you have an allergy to seeing too many tourists or expats, there's a place for you in Pattaya.

 

People make a big deal about how slow it is now. Well, from my point of view, I like it slow, but have you seen the weather since April? It's the wettest 4 months I've ever experienced here. Tourists don't like this weather, but there's nothing you can do about that.

5 hours ago, banglay said:

Bit of a heavy topic, but it's worth discussing. If the whole Thailand-Cambodia situation really blows up into a proper war, what's that going to do to our beloved Pattaya?

 

Nervous nationalities like the Japanese and some other Asians will stay away. 

 

The Thai baht will take a hit and more Westerners will visit.

 

So Pattaya will have fewer Asians, and more Westerners. In other words, a return to the old days.

23 minutes ago, topt said:

The golf courses were very happy to see us

 

As were hotels all over Thailand.

 

I've just checked Agoda bookings and looks like we travelled at least monthly during 2020, when there were all these supposed shutdowns.  I can see bookings in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Udon Thani, Korat, Phitsanulok, Bangkok, Hua Hin, and some of them multiple times, in my emails.  I also recall Nong Khai a couple of times but we booked direct, and there's bound to be more I overlooked.

 

Great time to be here.

1 minute ago, treetops said:

Great time to be here.

For foreigners I agree. However it wasn't for many individual Thai small businesses unfortunately.

22 minutes ago, topt said:

First this topic I believe was about Pattaya - no?

Second I don't live in a flat.

Golf - this is where you should not trust 3rd hand views and where, as you admitted you were not here, you really seem to have no idea of the reality.

 

Golf course around Pattaya were closed on 2 separate occasions. From memory the first time was about 5 weeks and the second occasion was much shorter - so that's about 7 weeks maximum in total in the first year. Apart from that time I must have played probably 12 or more different courses around Pattaya - up to an hour away by car. 

Specific courses - Pattana, Greenwood, Pattavia, Treasure Hill, Khao Kheaw, Burapha, Bangpra, Pleasant Valley, etc etc.

Firstly - I spoke about Thailand - and you spoke about Pattaya. My point is what happened in Pattaya was not what necessarily happened everywhere.  I have been to Pattaya many times for golf (play and watch LPGA) and for the shopping and products sold there and not much elsewhere (I never lived there).

 

I have mates who were and still are in Thailand - except for one who passed- including two blokes who were in Pattaya - neither are there now. They both told me (we old school guys email) of the things that happened during Covid. 

 

So you claim played at 12 golf courses that were open during Covid.  Or did I get that wrong. Or are you saying they were all closed for about 7 weeks in total and no more?? 

43 minutes ago, newnative said:

      Your post shows that, yes, you haven't been to Pattaya in a 'very long time'.  The reality is that Pattaya is no longer that 'dependent' on that friend of yours and what you call 'that segment'.  If you look at the big, new development the past few years, most of it is as far as you can get from 'that segment'.  It all started with Terminal 21 but it has really accelerated from there.  And, of course, T21 is about as far as you can get from Walking Street and still be near Pattaya Beach.  

    Ditto for all the new hotels--most of them built in the north Pattaya area.  Centre Point Space, the huge, family-oriented resort built a couple years ago, is a good example--right across from T21.  Centre Point 3, another family resort and even bigger, is now going up in that same area.  

   Pattaya's newest water park is on the Darkside--also far from 'that segment'.   True also for most of the new condo development, which is mostly scattered around Jomtien, Pratamnuk, Wongamat, and Cosy Beach.  

    Across from T21, a wide swatch of rather decrepit old retail has been leveled and new shopping and restaurants are going up, and decidedly not aimed at 'that segment'.  A very upscale highrise condo is also planned for that area, to join the new, equally-pricey Arom Wongamat condo.

   Earlier, I posted about all the new housing going up on the Darkside--which is truly staggering if you try to keep up with all of it--which I try to do--and fail.  There's quite the story there that seems to be flying under the radar.  Pattaya is definitely attracting lots of new residents not much interested in 'that segment'--I've met a number of them living in 4 different housing projects on the Darkside in the last few years.  

   Just a few examples.  I'm of the opinion that Pattaya would actually do even better if Walking Street was leveled and reimagined to appeal to the large numbers of new tourists, both foreign and domestic, and residents, now contributing to Pattaya's boom.  

I do stand corrected. Sometimes I make the mistake of lumping all of Pattaya into one big salad bowl, which of course is highly incorrect. I realize it's a big city and I've been to some of the Northern and Eastern areas that are really quite stunning. 

 

In a very general manner I refer more to the sexpat tourist zone of Pattaya, the extreme Western flank which has taken quite a beating and is a pale shadow of its former self, for that group of desperados. And I don't intend that to be demeaning ,I just intend that to imply extreme levels of desperation after having been subjected to the "feminine" tortures of the Western world .

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I still know some blokes who were stuck here in 2020/21 (and one who died) and they had lots of problems and issues. This forum was full of stories about the troubles Expats had.  Good luck to you - and maybe you were very very lucky - but I dont believe you. 

I lived in Thailand before, during, and after Covid, full-time. For selfish reasons, the COVID lockdown period was the best time in Pattaya ever. There were no problems, and there was no traffic. I didn't get vaxxed, and there was no pressure to. My wife had no problems either, and she wasn't vaxxed. 

Thailand will arm all American expats (gun lovers that we are) and point them at Cambodia.  That should take care of it! 

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I lived in Thailand before, during, and after Covid, full-time. For selfish reasons, the COVID lockdown period was the best time in Pattaya ever. There were no problems, and there was no traffic. I didn't get vaxxed, and there was no pressure to. My wife had no problems either, and she wasn't vaxxed. 

Yeah, I like Chiang Mai without tourists, but man, the Thai government did a job on "non-essential" small businesses.  They still have not recovered.  

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

So you claim played at 12 golf courses that were open during Covid.  Or did I get that wrong. Or are you saying they were all closed for about 7 weeks in total and no more?? 

Claim? WTF would I lie.......

 

As I said around 7 weeks in total across two periods. I help run a golf group and after posting had a look at some records I kept.

June 2020 seemed to be the opening 

Played 8th at Pattana (I remember it very well as changing rooms were still closed and they had plastic noodles in the cups so caddies would not pick the ball out of the hole - they also couldn't move the flagstick.......

10th at Thai Navy, 12th at Khao Kheaw, 15th at Treasure Hill, 17th at Eastern star, 19th at Pleasant Valley, 22nd at Greenwood, 24th at Pattana , 26th at KK, 29th at Pattavia.

Similarly for every month after that and I can give you dates and courses.

 

I don't remember stories from other parts of Thailand but if you are that interested try checking old threads in the golf forum.

The puu yai in Pattaya will urge the Cambodians to shell Soi 6.

6 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I lived in Thailand before, during, and after Covid, full-time. For selfish reasons, the COVID lockdown period was the best time in Pattaya ever. There were no problems, and there was no traffic. I didn't get vaxxed, and there was no pressure to. My wife had no problems either, and she wasn't vaxxed. 

Glad to hear that - not the same for others.  Did you point all this out during the Covid period when Expats were telling their stories about Thailand's treatment of them?  I dont recall anyone on TV/AN saying it was great in Thailand for Expats.  Maybe I missed it 🙂

  

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I do stand corrected. Sometimes I make the mistake of lumping all of Pattaya into one big salad bowl, which of course is highly incorrect. I realize it's a big city and I've been to some of the Northern and Eastern areas that are really quite stunning. 

 

In a very general manner I refer more to the sexpat tourist zone of Pattaya, the extreme Western flank which has taken quite a beating and is a pale shadow of its former self, for that group of desperados. And I don't intend that to be demeaning ,I just intend that to imply extreme levels of desperation after having been subjected to the "feminine" tortures of the Western world .

Fair call & post. The point I often make is that Pattaya is way more than Central Pattaya bars etc.🙃🙃

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I didn't get vaxxed, and there was no pressure to.

Neither of you work then  ?  no pressure total nonsense  they setup checkpoints in and out of Pattaya looking for proof of "vaccination"
 

 

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

There were no problems,

There were huge problems  many peoples livelihoods and business where ruined...the whole town shuttered  with only the mega corps allowed to sell food there where long lines of Thais on food handout lines an explosion of homelessness .

Never forget what they did  it was a disastrous despotic crime against humanity !!!  

 

2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Glad to hear that - not the same for others.  Did you point all this out during the Covid period when Expats were telling their stories about Thailand's treatment of them?  I dont recall anyone on TV/AN saying it was great in Thailand for Expats.  Maybe I missed it 🙂

  

Maybe some expats who wanted to leave had some dramas, but I've been in Pattaya for 20 years, and the 2 years from 2020 to 2022 were the best. You see, people like to post about problems, but the ones who had no problems are unlikely to bother posting, so you don't get a balanced view. 

6 minutes ago, johng said:

Neither of you work then  ?  no pressure total nonsense  they setup checkpoints in and out of Pattaya looking for proof of "vaccination"
 

 

There were huge problems  many peoples livelihoods and business where ruined...the whole town shuttered  with only the mega corps allowed to sell food there where long lines of Thais on food handout lines an explosion of homelessness .

Never forget what they did  it was a disastrous despotic crime against humanity !!!  

 

Yes, that's correct - neither of us worked. I never had any pressure to get vaxxed, nor did I need to leave town or travel to other areas for anything.

 

I'm talking bout the life of an expat that doesn't source money from Thailand. I thought that was clear.

 

There were huge problems for local people all around the world, so there's no need making drama about Thai people as if they were a unique group with more problems than anyone else.

16 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Maybe some expats who wanted to leave had some dramas, but I've been in Pattaya for 20 years, and the 2 years from 2020 to 2022 were the best. You see, people like to post about problems, but the ones who had no problems are unlikely to bother posting, so you don't get a balanced view. 

Probably true - good point. 

15 minutes ago, johng said:

...the whole town shuttered  with only the mega corps allowed to sell food . . . . 

 

Some of your points are valid and it was indeed a difficult time for many Thais, but the one I have selected here is just not true.

 

The Thai government realised that many (most?) Thais have no cooking facilities at home and live off street food, so they didn't come down too hard on eateries and other food providers.  There's also the fact that Thais tend to only obey rules they want to.

 

These combined meant there wasn't a day when I couldn't eat or drink what I wanted, pretty much where I wanted.  Alcohol was stopped for a while but that was one of the rules Thais chose not to obey.  Even when they clamped down on distibrutors' deliveries it never stopped the flow.

6 hours ago, banglay said:

Bit of a heavy topic, but it's worth discussing. If the whole Thailand-Cambodia situation really blows up into a proper war, what's that going to do to our beloved Pattaya?

Could this be the big one – the "final nail in the coffin" for the Pattaya we've all come to know (and sometimes grudgingly love)? Or are we looking at a double whammy, with even more hoops to jump through for visas and staying put?

I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, but let's be honest, Pattaya hasn't exactly been on a strong rebound after various setbacks and new rules over the past 15 years. So, is this the "final swan song," or will we just collectively stick our heads in the sand and pretend it'll all be fine?

Keen to hear what you guys reckon

What setback, maybe that soi Diana is becoming one. New rules, as far as I know the new zebra crossings are not ruled. Visa run good opportunity for the agents to increase their fares. Stick our heads in the sand, with these new constructions there will be hardly sand to stick your head in. And if bombing you won't be aware amid the much more noisy bars and their spotlights  than an exploding obus. By the way their tracking systems will become crazy trying to trace a goal disturbed by lights, noises and various waves overloading the space of Sin City. Don't become paranoid enjoy a chang in a gogo surrounded by rice farmers daugters not in rural clothing if any.

6 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Pattaya has 100x more farangs than I like. Not sure what the message is. It was crap 20 years ago.

 

It was crap 31 years ago when I first went, Bang Saen is far better, not many seedy bars or bar girls though

6 hours ago, banglay said:

If the whole Thailand-Cambodia situation really blows up into a proper war, what's that going to do to our beloved Pattaya?

 

The late night combat zone soi 6/1 will be renamed as Soi Bottombang. 

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

I'm talking bout the life of an expat that doesn't source money from Thailand. I thought that was clear.

No wasn't clear to me ..  but what is clear is 

"I'm ok Jack"  so its ok   sod anyone and everyone else  whose lives are ruined  worldwide ???   

 

Please everyone  remember the totally outrageous and heinous

crimes committed during the "pandemic"   don't forgive and forget  or they will do it all over again.

28 minutes ago, proton said:

 

It was crap 31 years ago when I first went, Bang Saen is far better, not many seedy bars or bar girls though

Guessing you only went to the Central Pattaya girlie spots.....just looking of course. Another one dimensional viewpoint.🙃🙃

57 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Maybe some expats who wanted to leave had some dramas, but I've been in Pattaya for 20 years, and the 2 years from 2020 to 2022 were the best. You see, people like to post about problems, but the ones who had no problems are unlikely to bother posting, so you don't get a balanced view. 

    That's true--it's always imbalanced, with more people complaining than praising anything.  During covid my spouse and I sold our condo on Pattaya Beach Road and moved to the Darkside--we were tired of the gym and the pool being closed and we ended up with a series of houses with our own gym and pool.  

    I think what surprised us most was the relative normality of the Darkside during that period.  While lots of businesses had closed in town, especially in the tourist dependent areas, we didn't see that much that was closed in the Lake Mabprachan area where we relocated to.  Lots of 7-11s closed in town; we didn't see a single closed one on the Darkside.  Instead, more were opening to handle the extra customers who were making quick stops to buy stuff, plus all the new residents.  We had no problem doing a large house renovation then, or finding workers.  

7 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Maybe Thailand's Prime Minister should do a Trump (take Canada)

But he didn't and never attempted to.

57 minutes ago, treetops said:

These combined meant there wasn't a day when I couldn't eat or drink what I wanted, pretty much where I wanted.  Alcohol was stopped for a while

The beer I like was quickly not available  then all beer was not available for a while..yes some sort of alcohol was always available

the "hard stuff"    yuckkkk  not quite a meth head yet    getting there.

 

Also I meant that most of the big corporate food vendors  Big C ,Tesco, Tops, CP,KFC,the Pizza guy,MK, etc   the large "mega corps"  where able to  dominate during the lockdowns  whilst small business went to the wall..

strangely Mcdonald's  didn't fare too well  and even a load of 7/11s eventually closed but I assume they where the franchised branches ?

 

Anyway it was an abomination that should never happen again.

 

41 minutes ago, Lucky Bones said:

Guessing you only went to the Central Pattaya girlie spots.....just looking of course. Another one dimensional viewpoint.🙃🙃

 

No

17 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

  Just like during Covid when Expats here were treated dismally

We got free vaccinations and were catered to with visa flexibility. 

17 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I still know some blokes who were stuck here in 2020/21 (and one who died) and they had lots of problems and issues. This forum was full of stories about the troubles Expats had.  Good luck to you - and maybe you were very very lucky - but I dont believe you. 

 

Thailand during the covid time was fantastic, Wish it would return.

20 hours ago, angryguy said:

Oh no the cambodians are going to take all our hookers

I think the hookers would adapt as long as they are still getting paid. Perhaps they may even like the Cambodians more with the smaller peckers and quick release