2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

If you’re gonna spell it wrong, might as well go for broke.

 

Ferlung.

Very good point. I was looking for a spelling similar to "n...ah" but didnt come up with a good one

1 hour ago, Toc-Toc said:

 

Try Makro Pro online and you won't be disappointed.

 

Moreover, hypermarket customers are declining throughout the Western world for one simple reason: fierce competition from distance selling platforms.

This method of distribution without having to travel is more convenient, it also allows for better inventory management, and is therefore infinitely less expensive than in-store sales.

 

Personally, I think that all hypermarkets will inevitably be doomed to a sharp decline. Some compensate with direct delivery, but even then, they will one day be overtaken by warehouses without windows, which are even less expensive.

I look at the Makro app but buy instore, can you get free delivery? i get free delivery for Lazada and Shopee

12 hours ago, Toc-Toc said:

Personally, I think that all hypermarkets will inevitably be doomed to a sharp decline. Some compensate with direct delivery, but even then, they will one day be overtaken by warehouses without windows, which are even less expensive.

 

probably a lot of people prefer to shop in store and see the actual food they're buying. 

 

21 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I look at the Makro app but buy instore, can you get free delivery? i get free delivery for Lazada and Shopee

Free delivery for all orders of 1,000b or more.
For me, one order per week is the right pace.
Unfortunately, you still have to travel for alcohol, which is prohibited from being delivered in the Kingdom.

But it is the social aspect the regime wants to stamp out 😉 Like during Covid-19.

We should all sit home and shop with a click. To isolate people is to control them.

 

Think of all the foreigner guys down in BigC food court, eating, having a coffee and chatting with friends. Shopping centers are contact points.

 

1 hour ago, thailandsgreat said:

Think of all the foreigner guys down in BigC food court, eating, having a coffee and chatting with friends. Shopping centers are contact points.

 

With facial recognition, and the near-mandatory tracking devices almost everyone now carries, "the regime" might even allow people to meet in food courts.

 

But I doubt the obvious destruction of the West and its peoples is the force driving Pattaya's (and Big C's) devolution.  

16 hours ago, newnative said:

      I don't think you can look at one grocery store and draw any assumptions regarding city population trends from what you find there.   Pattaya offers a lot of grocery shopping options these days, including home delivery.  I, myself, think the Big C Extra shopping center is sorely in need of a major makeover--which might be affecting foot traffic.   If Big C Extra is scaling back it could be for a number of reasons.  But, I don't think it is because of a decrease in the expat population of Pattaya.  

     Google gives mixed results regarding the expat population but, in my opinion, it is increasing and I think it is larger than when I arrived in 2010--and more spread out.  In the past 15 years, dozens of large, mega condo projects have been built, plus numerous smaller ones.  Many have their foreign quota filled, or nearly filled, so maybe 30 to 40% or more of these new units were purchased by foreigners.  And, more mega condo projects are currently being built and at least a half dozen are in the pipeline.   That doesn't mean everybody is here all the time.

     That's just condos.  On the Darkside, dozens and dozens of housing projects have been built in the past few years--and occupied.  And, as with condos, more are being built and planned.  Many of the projects are not huge but, collectively, they add up.  The last housing project I lived at was fairly typical.  Newly built, it had 28 pool villas, all sold and occupied except one in the construction stage and one still to be sold.  

     I think what is somewhat different these days is the demographics of the owners.  As I've said in a past post, it was a real UN of owners.  We had several Russian, Chinese, and Indian families.  We also had three or four from America, several from Britain and Thailand, plus Ireland, Holland, Dubai, Italy, and Israel, of those I knew.  Likely other nationalities were also represented.  This was also the case at two other housing projects that I lived briefly at--big mix of owners.

     My spouse and I know the developer of this project I mentioned.  She's not a big name brand, sort of small potatoes, but she, alone, has built at least a dozen projects on the Darkside, most with around 10 to 25 or so houses in each project.  Plus several more projects in the works.  When you figure in all the other house developers, including some big ones like Supalai and Sansiri, it indeed adds up.

 

I took the liberty of running your post through Paraphraser:

The main points from the text are:

• One grocery store's condition (Big C Extra) does not reflect city population trends, as Pattaya has many grocery options and home delivery available.

• Big C Extra may be experiencing lower foot traffic possibly due to needing a makeover or other reasons, not necessarily a decline in the expat population.

• The expat population in Pattaya is likely increasing since 2010 and becoming more dispersed.

• Many new large condo projects have been built in the last 15 years, with about 30-40% of units purchased by foreigners; more projects are ongoing or planned.

• Numerous housing projects have also been developed on the Darkside area, with many fully occupied and more under construction.

• Ownership demographics in these housing projects are diverse, representing a wide variety of nationalities beyond just Western expats.

• Some smaller developers have built multiple projects on the Darkside, adding significantly to housing availability alongside major developers.

Overall, the text argues that Pattaya's expat population growth and housing development are robust, despite localized business fluctuations.paraphraser

1. https://www.paraphraser.io/text-summarizer

15 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

 

I took the liberty of running your post through Paraphraser:

The main points from the text are:

• One grocery store's condition (Big C Extra) does not reflect city population trends, as Pattaya has many grocery options and home delivery available.

• Big C Extra may be experiencing lower foot traffic possibly due to needing a makeover or other reasons, not necessarily a decline in the expat population.

• The expat population in Pattaya is likely increasing since 2010 and becoming more dispersed.

• Many new large condo projects have been built in the last 15 years, with about 30-40% of units purchased by foreigners; more projects are ongoing or planned.

• Numerous housing projects have also been developed on the Darkside area, with many fully occupied and more under construction.

• Ownership demographics in these housing projects are diverse, representing a wide variety of nationalities beyond just Western expats.

• Some smaller developers have built multiple projects on the Darkside, adding significantly to housing availability alongside major developers.

Overall, the text argues that Pattaya's expat population growth and housing development are robust, despite localized business fluctuations.paraphraser

1. https://www.paraphraser.io/text-summarizer

I like this robot discussion we have.

 

*  Big.C was more than a grocery store. It has been the center for meeting other foreigners. It also had grocery selection for foreigner. German bread. Steaks in the food court. All was there. Reasonably priced.

 

* Yes!  More dispersed. Divide and conquer.

 

* Yes building during the last 15 years continues. But the decline is accelerating. Spreading out ferlung under control of their thai wives impair our connections.

 

* Yes. "beyond Westerners" i.e. Chinese, Indians, Gulf, Asian neighbors. We are fried.

 

😉

 

 

12 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

I took the liberty of running your post through Paraphraser:

Why - could you not understand what he wrote?

16 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

But farlang are shipping out. P. Mail wrote that.

Did they quote actual figures when they said that - or was it just another of their 'opinion' pieces......?

3 minutes ago, topt said:

Did they quote actual figures when they said that - or was it just another of their 'opinion' pieces......?

It seems they are covered. I am not sure what I am allowed to link here. Buy you will find this by search, I think.

 

While Pattaya’s image as a European holiday haven still lingers in the local imagination, hard data from the Ministry of Tourism and Sports shows a different reality. The city’s tourism survival in 2025 is increasingly thanks to its Asian neighbors—not long-haul European visitors.

11 minutes ago, thailandsgreat said:

The city’s tourism survival in 2025 is increasingly thanks to its Asian neighbors—not long-haul European visitors.

yes but that's tourists not coming - not people living here "shipping out" as you or the Pattaya Mail put it.

 

I don't know of any longer term residents within the groups I know who have decided to leave or stopped coming for their extended breaks. Sure there must be some but I don't think it is as large as what is being suggested.

A friend of mine who does not seem to get much attention in Los Angeles comes to Pattaya once or twice a year, for a little TLC. He told me since last year the women are fatter, uglier, and older, and the prices have doubled for PFP. Of course like many other things in Thailand reason does not seem to apply, as tourism is down, visitors are down, and business is way down according to the gals that he spoke with, and yet prices are way up, figure that one out. 

 

That does not bode well for its future, considering how dependent that city seems to be on that segment. 

 

I haven't been there in a very long time and I don't see the need to ever go back. I feel the same way about Phuket, which I visited about 18 months ago, and I couldn't believe how low end the crowd of predominantly Malaysians, Indians, Russians and Arabs were. And how terrible the nightlife is now. I don't think the locals are making much money off of that crowd. 

Could just be me, but it seems like most Thai's buy at 7-11 or just cheap knick knack stores (always in a rush??). When I goto the Big C the Thai's don't seem to be into the shopping experience.

 

That wholesale place on Sukhumvit Road is huge and rivals any Costco in the Usa, yet it was virtually empty when I went in there and it's just as close to town as the Big C. I got the feeling that lower/average income Thai's don't feel comfortable there (although the middle class in Bangkok probably would).

Vietnam is on the way up.  Thailand is on the way down. 

 

https://vir.com.vn/vietnam-welcomes-over-12-million-international-visitors-in-seven-months-134078.html

 

"Vietnam recorded a historic influx of international tourists in the first seven months of 2025, welcoming more than 12.2 million foreign arrivals, up nearly 23 per cent on-year, according to the Vietnam National Authority of Tourism (VNAT)."

 

https://thediplomat.com/2025/08/thailands-tourist-arrivals-down-on-competition-safety-concerns

 

"Thailand’s tourism sector continues to slump, with foreign tourist arrivals having fallen by more than 7 percent so far this year, according to the country’s Ministry of Tourism and Sport."

 

So, Vietnam up 23% while Thailand down 7%. 

 

Basically, Thailand no longer offers a value for money holiday experience when compared to its neighbors. 

 

This guys explains it very well, showing receipts and doing currency conversions, including Thai baht.  I didn't know Thailand has the third most expensive ATM fees in the world for international ATM cards.  The video is only 1 day old at the time of this post. 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

probably a lot of people prefer to shop in store and see the actual food they're buying. 

 

Fresh produce, meat, fish, and vegetables only account for a quarter of the sales area.
This is why Big C and the others are going to reduce their sales area.
As for the rest, if you like browsing diapers and barrels of laundry detergent, feel free.

11 hours ago, Toc-Toc said:

Fresh produce, meat, fish, and vegetables only account for a quarter of the sales area.
This is why Big C and the others are going to reduce their sales area.
As for the rest, if you like browsing diapers and barrels of laundry detergent, feel free.

 

Yeah, good point.

So maybe all massive supermarkets need to go the way of the dodo bird.

Buy laundry detergent and diapers online.

And small ma and pa butcher shops with fresh produce at every street corner.

Except the sanitary conditions need to be checked. 

 

23 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

I haven't been to Big C Extra on Pattaya Glang for a while. Today I noted all scaled down, supermarket and food court. I also read farlang in Pattaya are fewer. I don't frequent tourist areas so often. Can someone please help answer these questions.

 

Why are farlang fewer? Is EU making the Europeans poor so they can not travel? Is Thailand intentionally attracting Indians and Gulf tourists instead? Why? 

 

Is Big C scaling down because farlang are fewer? But where do the Indians and Arabs shop? Is this the same trend in Festival and Walking Street (where I seldom go). Someone said BigC  actually is preparing to expand and build larger areas or repairing a leaking roof?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are falang fewer ? - Not seen any numbers to support that theory nationally let alone in Pattaya. Arrivals for large European markets like Germany and UK were back to pre-covid levels last year.

 

Is Thailand intentionally attracting Indian and Gulf tourists instead ? Why ? - Not " instead " but " as well ". India has a growing getting wealthier middle class population. More potential in the future than maxed out low growth Western markets.

 

Re Big C - From what I've seen in Pattaya malls upgrade, refresh or remodel from time to time. Historically I'd say it's mainly due to competition but Big C had specific repair needs. We'll find out in due course. I see Indians and Arabs in the same shopping outlets as other tourists, Central, Terminal 21, Mike's, market stalls etc.

 

7 hours ago, topt said:

Did they quote actual figures when they said that - or was it just another of their 'opinion' pieces......?

    Agree.   And, people come and go.  The big question for me would be are more people leaving than are settling in Pattaya.   I think there are many more arriving than leaving--although someone leaving often makes a big splash on AN--"I'm outta here!!!  Bye Bye!  I'm moving to __________" fill in the blank with the next country they are trying.   Judging by the demographics of the housing projects I have lived at, including several new ones, the settlers are coming from a variety of countries and seem to be filling the new housing projects as they are built.  

You people must be living in a different reality than I am.  Pattaya was busier than I have ever seen last high season.  This must be another one of these threads that never die, where all the people with short term memories hang out, talking about how nobody is going to Thailand anymore when it's just a typical low season.

7 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

It seems they are covered. I am not sure what I am allowed to link here. Buy you will find this by search, I think.

 

While Pattaya’s image as a European holiday haven still lingers in the local imagination, hard data from the Ministry of Tourism and Sports shows a different reality. The city’s tourism survival in 2025 is increasingly thanks to its Asian neighbors—not long-haul European visitors.

Again, this is nothing new--it's been the case for a number of years.  

1 hour ago, kinyara said:

 

Why are falang fewer ? - Not seen any numbers to support that theory nationally let alone in Pattaya. Arrivals for large European markets like Germany and UK were back to pre-covid levels last year.

 

Is Thailand intentionally attracting Indian and Gulf tourists instead ? Why ? - Not " instead " but " as well ". India has a growing getting wealthier middle class population. More potential in the future than maxed out low growth Western markets.

 

Re Big C - From what I've seen in Pattaya malls upgrade, refresh or remodel from time to time. Historically I'd say it's mainly due to competition but Big C had specific repair needs. We'll find out in due course. I see Indians and Arabs in the same shopping outlets as other tourists, Central, Terminal 21, Mike's, market stalls etc.

 

     Liked your post.   The perception has been that western tourists have been in steep decline for many, many years.  I haven't bothered to check the past few years but I know that pre-covid from I think 2015 to 2019 only one 'western' country had a slight decline in numbers, Australia, and it was very slight.  The rest mostly had small gains of various amounts, not large but not in steep decline, either.  Still, the false perception persists.

    As you point out, the reality is that we now have "as well".   Along with the western visitors, we now have lots of new visitors from Asian and other countries, "as well".  That's how Thailand got to nearly 40 million international visitors in 2019--all the "as well" countries like China, India, and Russia adding greatly to the numbers, along with the stable or slightly higher western numbers.  Nice to see Germany and the UK back to their pre-covid levels; thanks for sharing that.

Annual Tourist arrivals from United Kingdom, Germany, France, Russia, Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium, Norway, Austria, and Finland based on available data from the Thai government and verified tourism statistics sources.

Country	Avg Baseline 1995-2017	Arrivals 2019	Arrivals 2022	Partial 2025
United Kingdom	~700,000	946,774	204,231	~583,000 (YTD)
Germany	~800,000	836,926	157,295	~450,000 (YTD)
France	~600,000	713,405	131,625	~320,000 (YTD)
Russia	~1,000,000	1,481,837	87,485	~1,040,000 (YTD)
Netherlands	~200,000	230,006	59,056	~150,000 (YTD)
Spain	~150,000	186,969	43,248	~120,000 (YTD)
Italy	~200,000	250,870	37,809	~110,000 (YTD)
Sweden	~250,000	279,451	36,042	~90,000 (YTD)
Switzerland	~200,000	206,087	33,945	~85,000 (YTD)
Denmark	~150,000	159,526	32,199	~70,000 (YTD)
Belgium	~110,000	114,016	24,068	~65,000 (YTD)
Norway	~120,000	130,509	22,089	~60,000 (YTD)
Austria	~100,000	110,690	18,190	~55,000 (YTD)
Finland	~120,000	125,490	14,028	~50,000 (YTD)

YTD means year-to-date for 2025, based on partial official Ministry data.

1. https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40053595
2. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/thailand/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality
3. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/thailand/visitor-arrivals
4. https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Thailand/tourist_arrivals/
5. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ST.INT.ARVL?locations=TH
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand
7. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/tha/thailand/tourism-statistics
8. https://database.mma.gov.mv/viya/series/164
9. https://en.macromicro.me/charts/979/thailand-foreign-tourists
10. https://trail.bananabackpacks.com/thailand-tourism-stats/
11. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/thailand/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality-europe-sem-greece
12. https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40052002
13. https://www.tourism-review.com/thailand-plans-to-attract-more-european-tourists-news14679

From Perplexity.ai

Using data primarily from the Thai government and related authoritative sources, here is a bar chart-style summary for tourist arrivals to Thailand by Australia, New Zealand, and the USA across four key periods:

Country	Avg Baseline 1995-2017	Arrivals 2019	Arrivals 2022	Partial 2025 (YTD)
Australia	~550,000	725,000	~100,000	~270,000
New Zealand	~150,000	200,000	~30,000	~70,000
USA	~350,000	600,000	~110,000	~320,000

Notes:

• Australia saw steady growth from a baseline average around 550k visitors annually from 1995 to 2017, peaking before the pandemic with 2019 arrivals near 725k. The pandemic sharply reduced arrivals in 2022 but a partial recovery is underway in 2025.

• New Zealand showed smaller but consistent visitor numbers, with a similar pattern of impact and recovery.

• The USA had a baseline average around 350k, with pre-pandemic highs near 600k arrivals in 2019. Post-pandemic reductions in 2022 are followed by a strong partial recovery in 2025.

These figures come from Ministry of Tourism data summarized and confirmed with CEIC and other official tourism statistics focusing on arrivals by nationality.

1. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/thailand/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality-australia
2. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ST.INT.ARVL?locations=TH
3. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-transport/overseas-arrivals-and-departures-australia/latest-release
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand
5. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/thailand/visitor-arrivals-by-nationality
6. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/tha/thailand/tourism-statistics
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Australia
8. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/international-tourism-number-of-arrivals-wb-data.html
9. https://www.tra.gov.au/en/international/international-tourism-results

Here is a bar chart style summary for tourist arrivals to Thailand from India and China over the approximate periods of baseline (1995-2017 average), 2019 peak year, 2022 pandemic impacted year, and partial 2025 current data:

Country	Avg Baseline 1995-2017	Arrivals 2019	Arrivals 2022	Partial 2025 (YTD)
India	~500,000	~2,100,000	~1,848,000	~1,426,000
China	~1,500,000	~6,700,000	~2,835,000	~2,836,000

Notes:

• India saw a substantial rise in visitor numbers in recent years, with over 2.1 million arrivals in 2019, a slight dip during the pandemic, and partial recovery into 2025.

• China is Thailand's largest market, with peak arrivals reaching nearly 6.7 million in 2019 before pandemic declines; partial recoveries are visible in 2025.

• Data sourced from Thai government tourism reports, CEIC, and related trusted databases tracking foreign arrivals by nationality.

• Baseline average approximations are derived from earlier two decades' data to provide context for comparison with significant pre- and post-pandemic years.

This chart provides clear visualization of India's rising tourist profile and China's dominant but pandemic-affected role in inbound tourism to Thailand.

Sources:roadgenius+4

1. https://roadgenius.com/statistics/tourism/thailand/
2. https://blog.gettransfer.com/news/thailand-indian-tourism-milestone/
3. https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40053951
4. https://www.ceicdata.com/en/india/foreign-tourist-arrivals-by-purpose-of-visit-indian-diaspora/foreign-tourist-arrivals-indian-diaspora-south-east-asia-thailand
5. https://tourism.gov.in/sites/default/files/2022-04/India%20Tourism%20Statistics%202021.pdf
6. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/tha/thailand/tourism-statistics
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand
8. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/international-tourism-number-of-arrivals-wb-data.html
9. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ST.INT.ARVL

13 hours ago, Airalee said:

If you’re gonna spell it wrong, might as well go for broke.

 

Ferlung.

 

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming English is not their first language.

Here is a summary of tourist arrivals to Thailand from Malaysia, based on available Ministry of Tourism data and related sources spanning baseline, peak, pandemic, and recovery periods:

Country	Avg Baseline 1995-2017	Arrivals 2019	Arrivals 2022	Partial 2025 (YTD)
Malaysia	~1,500,000	~2,300,000	~1,200,000	~2,450,000

 

Notes:

• Malaysia has been a consistently strong source market for Thailand over the past two decades, with an average baseline around 1.5 million visitors annually.

• Tourist arrivals peaked in 2019 at roughly 2.3 million visitors.

• Arrivals declined during the pandemic years (2020-2022) but showed a strong recovery by mid-2025, with partial year arrivals surpassing pre-pandemic levels.

• Malaysia even overtook China as Thailand’s top source of visitors in some 2025 months due to strong bilateral travel and tourism recovery efforts.

• The Malaysian market remains vital to Thailand's inbound tourism, supported by visa policies and strong regional connectivity.

• Data draws from Ministry of Tourism reports, CEIC statistics, and updated tourism news sources.

This bar chart data reflects Malaysia's important and growing role in inbound tourism to Thailand.

1. https://roadgenius.com/statistics/tourism/thailand/
2. https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/616410
3. https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40052002
4. https://publisher.uthm.edu.my/ojs/index.php/emait/article/download/20250/7153/91423
5. https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/thailand-tourist-arrivals-drop-562-yy-so-far-2025-2025-07-15/
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand
7. https://www.chinadailyhk.com/article/618250
8. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ST.INT.ARVL?locations=TH
9. https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/international-tourism-number-of-arrivals-wb-data.html

1 hour ago, newnative said:

As you point out, the reality is that we now have "as well".   Along with the western visitors, we now have lots of new visitors from Asian and other countries, "as well".  That's how Thailand got to nearly 40 million international visitors in 2019--all the "as well" countries like China, India, and Russia adding greatly to the numbers, along with the stable or slightly higher western numbers

 

So the tables above largely support this view.  And go a long way in addressing the title of this thread: "The Transformation of Pattaya".

17 hours ago, Lee65 said:

Overall, the text argues that Pattaya's expat population growth and housing development are robust, despite localized business fluctuations.paraphraser

Seems surprising with all the issues being put onto Expats, like banking restrictions and the ability to get Visa Extensions. 

12 hours ago, Lee65 said:

 

So the tables above largely support this view.  And go a long way in addressing the title of this thread: "The Transformation of Pattaya".

Thanks for searching out the numbers.

Depending on their accuracy that is quite interesting.