Australian Aged Pension

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, Will27 said:

No it didn't.

 

Ticking a box on a departure card has no affect at all.

Things change and people make mistakes when filling out forms.

If you are on the dole or disability pension etc, centerlink knows the second you leave Australia, before they scraped departure cards that information would have come straight from the departure card. (nowadays the information probably comes from airlines etc). Of course that information is passed on, why did they even bother to collect it or have the box on the form ?.

Nowadays you probably get pinged at centerlink as leaving with no return ticket.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

Would you believe Centrelink is not interested in the dividends you receive on any investment, well sort of, your pension is assed on the value of your asset only. If Centrelink did its assessment on profit and loss calculations they would have to have thousands of accountants to vet this, they can get tax figure anyhow if they need to.  You can put in a risky investment that pays 100% dividend.  If the dividend raises the value of your assets well Centrelink will want to be told and an adjustment will be made.  But!!! the tax man will be lurking, he'll be in for his share of profits if your income is over the tax threshold $31,000 something...he don't care.  If you put your 100% dividend investment into Super the ATO will take 15% in tax from the profits from the fund managers before you know. First you see it then you don't, like the 3 card trick. And for a 100 years they said super would never be taxed..but they lied.

The tax man can only kiss my left one, because as a foreign resident who has his money in the ASX Australian Stock Exchange, I pay zero tax on it, yes there are some loop holds for us

[4MyEgo]

47 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Unless you advise Centrelink of a definite date you are returning to Aus you will be deemed a having left Aus permanently.  From the day you depart your pension supplement will be stopped instead of the usual 6 weeks grace that returning holiday makers get.  This will cost you about $180.00.  On the Centrelink site where this information is required if you leave the date of return blank they will assume your not coming back, until you do?

I am 10 years out of applying for the pension, CentreLink sent me a letter to MyGov account about 2 months after we were out of the country advising me that as the family has been out of the country for more than 6 weeks, all Family A & B payments will not be paid until we return and advise them of same.

 

The funny thing is, we never received any Family A & B payments, as far as I can recall, as I was well over the threshold

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I am 10 years out of applying for the pension, CentreLink sent me a letter to MyGov account about 2 months after we were out of the country advising me that as the family has been out of the country for more than 6 weeks, all Family A & B payments will not be paid until we return and advise them of same.

 

The funny thing is, we never received any Family A & B payments, as far as I can recall, as I was well over the threshold

I was travelling to thailand with a friend who was on the dole (or something similar) and he got the SMS from centrelink before we even got on the plane, 20 mins after going through immigration.

[Will27]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you are on the dole or disability pension etc, centerlink knows the second you leave Australia, before they scraped departure cards that information would have come straight from the departure card. (nowadays the information probably comes from airlines etc). Of course that information is passed on, why did they even bother to collect it or have the box on the form ?.

Nowadays you probably get pinged at centerlink as leaving with no return ticket.

 

The reason Centrelink know these details is that they have access to Immigration

passenger movements. It's got nothing to do with the airlines.

 

Information from passenger cards isn't sent to Centrelink.

Of course if you're being investigated, information can be requested but that's

a different scenario altogether.

[Old Croc]

25 minutes ago, Will27 said:

No it didn't.

 

Ticking a box on a departure card has no affect at all.

Things change and people make mistakes when filling out forms.

They are stat decs not just forms, but, as stated, departure cards have been discontinued.

Information on arrival cards, apart from Customs and Quarantine declarations, are mainly of interest to the ABS only. 

CL obviously have access to the Movements Data Base which they would match with their client base to check comings and goings. They and other departments are not breathlessly waiting to scrutinise 100s of 1000s of cards to see which of their clients ticked which box! 

Nobody is adjusting records in 100th of a second to reflect every piece of information on a card.

[4MyEgo]

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

 

The reason Centrelink know these details is that they have access to Immigration

passenger movements. It's got nothing to do with the airlines.

 

Information from passenger cards isn't sent to Centrelink.

Of course if you're being investigated, information can be requested but that's

a different scenario altogether.

Mate of mine I bumped into at Sydney airport years ago who worked for immigration said; as soon as anyone departs, their name goes into the system as soon as they go through, it is then sent to various other government department systems automatically, what happens from there he said; he doesn't know, but I reckon, it sits in the system, e.g. Centrelink system for one, until it meets the time frame you are allowed to be out of the country, and if your over, the system picks it up with immigration and your pension supplements, application for the OAP for Xpats returning and others, are flagged with Centrelink taking the necessary actions to stop payment.

 

Big Brother is not watching your every move, he knows where you are going and what you are doing through due process.

[David Walden]

12 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you are on the dole or disability pension etc, centerlink knows the second you leave Australia, before they scraped departure cards that information would have come straight from the departure card. (nowadays the information probably comes from airlines etc). Of course that information is passed on, why did they even bother to collect it or have the box on the form ?.

Nowadays you probably get pinged at centerlink as leaving with no return ticket.

Before the current changes not long ago Centrelink suspended my pension because I told them I was leaving Aus at 1.30 am on a Wednesday the time of the flights departure (said so on the ticket).  I passed through immigration at 11.30 pm on Tuesday. As I did not give correct information my pension was suspended for 2 weeks but sorted out later. If I went though immigration at 1 min pat 12 midnight all would have been OK.  As I passed through immigration at 11.30 pm Tues that was officially my time of departure from Aus, yes being Tuesday, I told a porky.  The day before that's when I officially left Aus.  Technically I was not in the departure lounge but had already left at Aus at 11.30 pm Tuesday. I think the current procedure has fixed that.  Issues like this could have funny legal implication... we live in hope.

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, Will27 said:

 

The reason Centrelink know these details is that they have access to Immigration

passenger movements. It's got nothing to do with the airlines.

 

Information from passenger cards isn't sent to Centrelink.

Of course if you're being investigated, information can be requested but that's

a different scenario altogether.

How would immigration know passenger movements other than airline information, or previously departure card info. Immigration doesn't ask were are you going when you leave, they take your passport scan it, stamp it and give it back. I cant recall ever being asked where I was going or how long etc (other than the old departure cards). If you go through an Egate, nobody asks.

If you think about it there are only 2 places the information can come from, either you tell them or the airlines.

 

Airlines already have a list of name, passport and destination, why would immigration need to duplicate the information.

[Old Croc]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

How would immigration know passenger movements other than airline information, or previously departure card info. Immigration doesn't ask were are you going when you leave, they take your passport scan it, stamp it and give it back. I cant recall ever being asked where I was going or how long etc (other than the old departure cards). If you go through an Egate, nobody asks.

If you think about it there are only 2 places the information can come from, either you tell them or the airlines.

Immigration (Border Security) own the Movement Data Base. It is updated instantly every time a passport is swiped coming or going. Departments like CL have access to this system if they want to cross match with their client list. (probably automatic these days) Airline ticketing details would be made available if an individual was being investigated, but the entire world-wide ticketing system is not automatically sent to CL. 

Any questions asked of pax by airport staff is not related to CL benefits.

Information on the multi-millions of pax cards collected each year is quite simply not instantly available for obvious reasons.

[Rimmer]

A commercial post has been removed also some duplicates and a troll post

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Immigration (Border Security) own the Movement Data Base. It is updated instantly every time a passport is swiped coming or going. Departments like CL have access to this system if they want to cross match with their client list. (probably automatic these days) Airline ticketing details would be made available if an individual was being investigated, but the entire world-wide ticketing system is not automatically sent to CL. 

Any questions asked of pax by airport staff is not related to CL benefits.

Information on the multi-millions of pax cards collected each year is quite simply not instantly available for obvious reasons.

That all makes sense but it would appear the movement data base would nowadays contain less information than it did when they asked, via departure cards , where are you going, for how long etc. If they are getting no information from airlines or passenger manifest etc, they now have no idea were you went, if you are coming back etc.

I had always presumed they gave up on departure cards because they get that information from elsewhere.

But , as you say, it now appears immigration (and the gov departments they sharewith) are happy with less information. Which can only be a good thing for ex-pats, the less they know the better.

[ELVIS123456]

19 hours ago, giddyup said:

Can you ever answer a question simply instead of going on this tirade about your own personal problems that have absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.

Ditto for me too David.  Take it elsewhere mate.

 

[LosLobo]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

After having spent considerable time reading many many articles, and the legislation, I will tell you what, I will leave it to you to explain to the majority of us here who know that the single pension asset threshold for a non-home owner is $456,750, as I posted previously, now if those assets are earning an income, they might bite into the amount of pension you receive, that said we are all waiting for you to now explain to us how it is reduced to the figure you stated in your previous post, I believe it was somewhere in the $150,000 range ?

 

I am not going to argue with you that your wrong, that's cut and dry, but am willing to allow you to prove what I have said above is wrong, otherwise its a  for you 555 

I don't think that this site should be about arguing or proving who is right or wrong!

 

It should be about understanding the current legislation for the Australian old age pension.

 

Legislation is in the process of constant evolution and dissemination of information based on past glories and old legislation does nobody any good.

 

The attached Pension Calculator :

 

http://www.yourpension.com.au/APCalc/   

 

originally posted by tink2mutt

 

is modelled on up to date OAP legislation and can be used for any "what-if-scenarios".

Try these settings in your calculator... for $456,750 in Investment Property.....a non financial asset
  
+Marital and Home Status 
Single Non Home Owner 
+Assets Not Deemed by Centrelink... 
Investment Property $456,750

 

You get $908/fn.......which is the full pension. 

Try these settings in your calculator... for $450,750 in Financial Investments..... a financial asset
  
+Marital and Home Status 
Single Non Home Owner 
+Investments Deemed by Centrelink... 
Allocated Pensions and Annuities $456,750
  
You get $707/fn.......which is $201 less than pension. 

 

Please note that financial assets are treated differently to non financial assets!

 

Payment of OAP is based on both the Income and Assets tests and the one with the least benefit is paid!

[ELVIS123456]

19 hours ago, giddyup said:

Can you ever answer a question simply instead of going on this tirade about your own personal problems that have absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.

Ditto for me too David.  Take it elsewhere mate.

 

[LosLobo]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

After having spent considerable time reading many many articles, and the legislation, I will tell you what, I will leave it to you to explain to the majority of us here who know that the single pension asset threshold for a non-home owner is $456,750, as I posted previously, now if those assets are earning an income, they might bite into the amount of pension you receive, that said we are all waiting for you to now explain to us how it is reduced to the figure you stated in your previous post, I believe it was somewhere in the $150,000 range ?

 

I am not going to argue with you that your wrong, that's cut and dry, but am willing to allow you to prove what I have said above is wrong, otherwise its a  for you 555 

I don't think that this site should be about arguing or proving who is right or wrong!

 

It should be about understanding the current legislation for the Australian old age pension.

 

Legislation is in the process of constant evolution and dissemination of information based on past glories and old legislation does nobody any good.

 

The attached Pension Calculator :

 

http://www.yourpension.com.au/APCalc/   

 

originally posted by tink2mutt

 

is modelled on up to date OAP legislation and can be used for any "what-if-scenarios".

Try these settings in your calculator... for $456,750 in Investment Property.....a non financial asset
  
+Marital and Home Status 
Single Non Home Owner 
+Assets Not Deemed by Centrelink... 
Investment Property $456,750

 

You get $908/fn.......which is the full pension. 

Try these settings in your calculator... for $450,750 in Financial Investments..... a financial asset
  
+Marital and Home Status 
Single Non Home Owner 
+Investments Deemed by Centrelink... 
Allocated Pensions and Annuities $456,750
  
You get $707/fn.......which is $201 less than full pension. 

 

Please note that financial assets are treated differently to non financial assets!

 

Payment of OAP is based on both the Income and Assets tests and the one with the least benefit is paid!

[Old Croc]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That all makes sense but it would appear the movement data base would nowadays contain less information than it did when they asked, via departure cards , where are you going, for how long etc. If they are getting no information from airlines or passenger manifest etc, they now have no idea were you went, if you are coming back etc.

I had always presumed they gave up on departure cards because they get that information from elsewhere.

But , as you say, it now appears immigration (and the gov departments they sharewith) are happy with less information. Which can only be a good thing for ex-pats, the less they know the better.

Hand written Info from Pax cards has never been imputed into the MDB. It would be an incredibly labour intensive task to do so and would overload the system.

Cards could be made available later on an individual basis for agencies with a need.

 

[ripstanley]

10 hours ago, Old Croc said:

They are stat decs not just forms, but, as stated, departure cards have been discontinued.

Information on arrival cards, apart from Customs and Quarantine declarations, are mainly of interest to the ABS only. 

CL obviously have access to the Movements Data Base which they would match with their client base to check comings and goings. They and other departments are not breathlessly waiting to scrutinise 100s of 1000s of cards to see which of their clients ticked which box! 

Nobody is adjusting records in 100th of a second to reflect every piece of information on a card.

Very true Old Croc.

[David Walden]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:57 PM, giddyup said:

Theoretically, but if I walk into a hospital and show a current Medicare card how would they know I've been away for more than 5 years?

You only have to be away from Aus one day and your Medicare stops.

[giddyup]

5 hours ago, David Walden said:

You only have to be away from Aus one day and your Medicare stops.

Not what I asked, but never mind.

[David Walden]

57 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Not what I asked, but never mind.

If you don't understand this answer to your question, all your other question on this subject are irrelevant.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

If you don't understand this answer to your question, all your other question on this subject are irrelevant.

I understand the answer, it's just not the relevant answer to my question, but I'm not surprised that you don't get that, you're too busy being a know-all.

[sceadugenga]

Keep it polite please.

 

[Goinghomesoon]

14 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Hand written Info from Pax cards has never been imputed into the MDB. It would be an incredibly labour intensive task to do so and would overload the system.

Cards could be made available later on an individual basis for agencies with a need.

 

Correct.  Data-matching between government agencies is simply about establishing that Person X has departed/arrived Australia. They don’t care where you go.  In depth information from sources such as airlines can be obtained by investigative agencies if needed but isn’t standard. 

[David Walden]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

I understand the answer, it's just not the relevant answer to my question, but I'm not surprised that you don't get that, you're too busy being a know-all.

It would nice if you could point out where my comments about the aged pension are incorrect.  I've had a lot of experience in that area.  You seem to be having difficulty answering that...but you are good at being impolite.

[giddyup]

26 minutes ago, David Walden said:

It would nice if you could point out where my comments about the aged pension are incorrect.  I've had a lot of experience in that area.  You seem to be having difficulty answering that...but you are good at being impolite.

For a start my question had nothing to do with the OAP. Perhaps next time read what the question is before going off half-cocked, but I can't be bothered discussing it further, so just drop it.

[simple1]

14 hours ago, David Walden said:

You only have to be away from Aus one day and your Medicare stops.

In the normal course of events you're posting misinformation. If you're talking to a specific scenario it would need to be explained.

[Lacessit]

14 hours ago, David Walden said:

You only have to be away from Aus one day and your Medicare stops.

In terms of Medicare paying for hospitals and medical consultations overseas, yes. One has to be absent from Australia for 5 years before their Medicare card is no longer valid.

I go back to Australia every six months, and my Medicare card functions OK.

[SplitInfinitive]

Saying it's cancelled indicates it's lost and had to be reapplied for on re-entering the country, we all know that is not correct for, at least, short term trips away. 

[LosLobo]

44 minutes ago, giddyup said:

For a start my question had nothing to do with the OAP. Perhaps next time read what the question is before going off half-cocked, but I can't be bothered discussing it further, so just drop it.

With respect, this thread is about the OAP.....maybe off subject topics should be discussed elsewhere.