Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[nikster]

Calm down and wait a month or two, then you'll get your bike for 100k or just above it. Or get it now for whatever they ask. Normal for new product introductions, isn't it. Fixed price is nicer for the buyer but hey, we live in a free world (sometimes... )

[BigBikeBKK]

In this article they say the new Honda CBR 250 puts out only ~26 Hp at the crank:

"Peak power at the crankshaft is stated to be 25.8 hp at 8500 rpm"

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2011-honda-cbr250r-review-90193.html

That means you'll be lucky to get ~20-23 Hp at the rear wheel...

For those who like to compare this bike with the Kawasaki Ninja 250R the new CBR 250's 10-20% deficit in Hp is a big handicap for such a small-displacement motorcycle.

In the US the MSRP for the Ninja 250R and CBR 250 are identical- $3999. Add $500 if you want ABS on the CBR. No doubt it will sell well here in Thailand thanks to the cheaper price and Honda badge, but globally I don't think Kawasaki has to worry too much about losing their dominance in the 250cc niche. Now that Kawasaki finally has some competition in the 250cc market perhaps it will even push them to improve the little Ninja.

Ride On!

Tony

[BigBikeBKK]

Calm down and wait a month or two, then you'll get your bike for 100k or just above it. Or get it now for whatever they ask. Normal for new product introductions, isn't it. Fixed price is nicer for the buyer but hey, we live in a free world (sometimes... )

Dunno, when Kwackerzaki introduced the Ninja 250R to Thailand it initially went on sale at a discounted price and they were throwing in 5000 Baht of free accessories to celebrate the launch in Thailand... For the folks interested in the CBR 250 they can spend a bit more and get a Ninja 250R or spend a bit less and get a Tiger Boxer 250RS. Great to have more and more choices available, don't you think?

Ride On!

Tony

[wjmark]

So, just how many people, in Chiang Mai, will have sat and played with WJMark's bike well he's in Canada?

Our whole darn family did today.

So if there is chocolate ice cream dripping all over it, I'll know who to blame!

[wjmark]

Did you check if they had disconnected the speedo, so it doesn't show any extra mileage from the test drives?!

I betcha WJ will book an early flight back!

(I kept the keys!)

[Hili]

@Tiffer, if the shop is not to far from your place maybe u could stop by and look if its still there? If yes tell them i will come and get it will go there straight after work. Thanks alot

Edited December 21, 2010 by Hili

[apetley]

Calm down and wait a month or two, then you'll get your bike for 100k or just above it. Or get it now for whatever they ask. Normal for new product introductions, isn't it. Fixed price is nicer for the buyer but hey, we live in a free world (sometimes... )

Dunno, when Kwackerzaki introduced the Ninja 250R to Thailand it initially went on sale at a discounted price and they were throwing in 5000 Baht of free accessories to celebrate the launch in Thailand... For the folks interested in the CBR 250 they can spend a bit more and get a Ninja 250R or spend a bit less and get a Tiger Boxer 250RS. Great to have more and more choices available, don't you think?

Ride On!

Tony

Inclined to agree with you about spending a bit more or less right now.

My local dealer, who only a few weeks ago told me that the CBR WOULD NOT be coming to Thailand, wants 120k for the non ABS which makes the Boxer, which I have ridden and really rate, brilliant value at 72k.

And only another 27k buys the Ninja, which I have also ridden and LOVE!

Time to wait a month or two I think because getting the CBR at near 100k makes it alot more attractive.

[dave_boo]

In this article they say the new Honda CBR 250 puts out only ~26 Hp at the crank:

"Peak power at the crankshaft is stated to be 25.8 hp at 8500 rpm"

http://www.motorcycl...view-90193.html

That means you'll be lucky to get ~20-23 Hp at the rear wheel...

For those who like to compare this bike with the Kawasaki Ninja 250R the new CBR 250's 10-20% deficit in Hp is a big handicap for such a small-displacement motorcycle.

In the US the MSRP for the Ninja 250R and CBR 250 are identical- $3999. Add $500 if you want ABS on the CBR. No doubt it will sell well here in Thailand thanks to the cheaper price and Honda badge, but globally I don't think Kawasaki has to worry too much about losing their dominance in the 250cc niche. Now that Kawasaki finally has some competition in the 250cc market perhaps it will even push them to improve the little Ninja.

Ride On!

Tony

If those crank numbers are correct I'd reckon, unless Honda's figured a way to reduce driveline loss way more than other manufacturers, that the low-end of your estimate is correct (i.e. just shy of 21 RWHP)...which is something like 80% of Kawi's top HP. But that also comes in at some 80% of the RPMs also!

However, since HP is a derived number, and the RPMs and gearing don't line up, why even bother looking at it? Torque is a real number; compare that at similar speeds and see how the bikes fair. It makes me wonder if an aftermarket ECU (remove the rev limiter) comes out, a bit of cam indexing and then how will the HP numbers compare since there's such an infatuation with them.

Having made that last paragraph I'd like to say that 10% is really nothing in the smaller bikes (if someone ways 60 kg and puts on an extra 10% it's not much; a 100 kg person putting on 10% more mass is quite a bit) but a 20% difference in directly comparable metrics is quite large.

From that website you linked to I also took a look at the Ninja 250R v Megelli 250R comparison. The Magelli seems to be really close to the CBR 250R in output; I may be mis-reading it but it appears that it made 20,5 HP on the dyno. As such this paragraph is paramout to a Ninja/CBR comparison:

Despite our Megelli's carburetion issues, it retained an edge over the Ninja until 8,500 rpm when its output flattens out on the way to its rev limiter 1,000 revs later. It generates its 20.5 horsepower peak at 8,250 rpm. However, sprint and top speed honors go to the high-revving Ninja. Horsepower numbers are about equal at 8,300 revs, but from there the Kawi is just beginning to hit its stride and takes advantage of its higher-revving powerplant. Spool up all of its 25-plus ponies, and it consistently runs away.

I scoured the web and could not find the gear ratios for the Megelli; I did see though that it has only a 5 speed gearbox. It's safe to say that everyone's in agreement that 6 is better than 5 (I mean who wants to buy a five pack?)--after each gear in a 5 speed needs to cover ~20% more speed. I will make a prediction that the CBR, having a really good low end combined with shorter gearing than the Ninja, will destroy it in city driving where you seldom get above 4^th gear and achieve parity on highway driving...even though you'll be rowing through the gears to keep up there.

This picture represents a spreadsheet I whipped up (available upon request). It's quite interesting that the CBR maintains a good margin over the Ninja in every gear with the exception of first (where they're tied). In fact it appears that in 3rd and 4th it will run within a couple of kph of the Ninja RPM for RPM and will go a bit faster, once again RPM for RPM, in fifth. BUT (!) that's with the Ninja running in one higher gear! Oh you say, you're going to be shifting like a madman; however look at where the CBR drops off when you upshift. 1-2 is 6500, 2-3 is 7500, 3-4 is ~8750, 4-5 is 9000, 5-6 is 9000. Pretty cool as that is where it's making peak power (remeber more torque than the Ninja) and those taller gears should keep a race fairly close--least ways, IMHO, until 120 or so.

Edited December 21, 2010 by dave_boo

[snowflake]

So what did you tell your dealer when they got the bike? My mech was on time... End december- new years... And they charged me 100k for the bike- reg and insurance adds on... I hope it will arrive today...

[taichiplanet]

Did you check if they had disconnected the speedo, so it doesn't show any extra mileage from the test drives?!

I betcha WJ will book an early flight back!

(I kept the keys!)

Yes, but they have the key code and can easily order new ones. Only kidding!

Have a great Christmas everybloody!

[apetley]

So what did you tell your dealer when they got the bike? My mech was on time... End december- new years... And they charged me 100k for the bike- reg and insurance adds on... I hope it will arrive today...

When I saw my dealer and enquired after the CBR all he could do was smile that Thai smile.

Who's your dealer snowflake, do you have a phone #, could be well worth a trip into BKK to save 20k? Thanks.

[snowflake]

Ha ha- my dealer is way down south- and do remember that this is thailand- it is only confirmed when i have my bike... But two dealers here has now said the same! So, maybe they follow hondas suggested price down here? Not many foreigners... well, that will change since chevron will move here- hope my bike will come today- i am not a religious person, but if it gets here, my prayers are heard by someone:-)

[Tiffer]

@Tiffer, if the shop is not to far from your place maybe u could stop by and look if its still there? If yes tell them i will come and get it will go there straight after work. Thanks alot

Agh!

Tues - Fri I work in Ongkarak which is 80km away...

I could stop by on Friday this week.

Maybe call them again or stop by as you said?

Let me know either way ;-)

[apetley]

Ha ha- my dealer is way down south- and do remember that this is thailand- it is only confirmed when i have my bike... But two dealers here has now said the same! So, maybe they follow hondas suggested price down here? Not many foreigners... well, that will change since chevron will move here- hope my bike will come today- i am not a religious person, but if it gets here, my prayers are heard by someone:-)

Ok, thanks anyway.

Same question, if anyone knows where to buy in BKK for close to 100k all in they will have my eternal gratitude

[Hili]

@Tiffer, if the shop is not to far from your place maybe u could stop by and look if its still there? If yes tell them i will come and get it will go there straight after work. Thanks alot

Agh!

Tues - Fri I work in Ongkarak which is 80km away...

I could stop by on Friday this week.

Maybe call them again or stop by as you said?

Let me know either way ;-)

Tiffer problem is i am staying not that close to lad prhao and going there at rush hour time just to get disappointed again, it wont worth. If i know its there it will worth, thanks anyway like nikster say we should stay calm. dam_n no new year trip for me then!! :jap:

[Kernow86]

Calm down and wait a month or two, then you'll get your bike for 100k or just above it. Or get it now for whatever they ask. Normal for new product introductions, isn't it. Fixed price is nicer for the buyer but hey, we live in a free world (sometimes... )

My dealer is maintaining 100,000 ++ but not available until January....lets see if Phuket gets wind of this little price tweak. I hope not!

[LivinLOS]

Uh...no.

After 2 years, the Cbr150 would still be worth 45-50k. So quite a bit less than 1k/mo.

The launch price was only in effect for a few months and the example was for a 2 year-old Ninja.

No need to get offensive just because you are no good at math or keeping up with the thread or reading comprehension for that matter.

I'll go slower....

I have owned the old model for 96 months at amonthly cost of less than 500/month. see above.

Just1voice recently got rid of his after 18 months at a cost of less than 800/month.

So a 2 y/o old model would lose less than 1000/mo. Probably around 900/month. Hence the "somewhat".

A 2 y/o Ninja would sell between 80-100.000. Max. 80,000 more likely.

147500-80000= -67,500. divide by 24 . cost 2812/month.

Honda 250 after 2 years? 75,000?

100,000-75,000= 25,000. divide by 24. cost 1041/month.

I've already got bicycle. In North America we don't call them pushbikes. Because you pedal them. You don't push them.

You actually should have kept mum, as the figures look even worse now for the Ninjas.

od secondhand market valuation

a 147k Ninja should sell for 80k after 24 months

while a 100k cbr should sell for 75k after 24 months

Hes clearly got a bias.. And wants to make a point which ultimately is over pennies different a month anyway.

If a 1000 baht is such a big deal I would really question the actual interest or desire.

You buy a bike because you want one.. Your going to own it for a year or two hopefully ?? If I had to take the one I didnt want as much, for a couple of years, over a 1000 baht here or there a month, I would be on the next plane to go make some proper money !!

So the whole thing is an irrelevance. Buy a CBR if you like it.. Buy a ninja if you like it.. But the whole 'this one is 20 baht a day cheaper' I mean really !! Does your pocket money from the paper round not cover it ! Your using something thats about a 1/4 of a beer daily to justify a purchase you will live with for years.

I have no bias on either bike.. I say buy the one you want the most. Making up stats to defend the choice undermines the bike itself.

[CMX]

There are many ways to express adding on 20,000 baht on a base of 100,000 baht.

Price tweak does not come to my mind.

[snowflake]

Keep the bikes for years??? You clearly does not know me- I have yet to own a bike longer than my PCX, and I have had that since march (my friends are wondering when I will sell it, but that is not happening)...

The problem with the CBR for me is that it is a small bike- last "big bike" I had was a zx12r, and as we all know, it is difficult to move down in CC's... My aim is that the CBR will get me completely hooked again, and then I will move with a purchase of a much larger bike (that will go very fast)...

The fact that the bike is 47500B cheaper than the Ninja means this is just a toy, too cheap for me to not like.........

Anyways, this bike and the Ninja are both good bikes in their own ways, we should as someone said before, be happy with the bike we have, enjoy them by riding in this country we love!!!

[JUDAS]

Wife just got a call from Honda Chumphon. They have just received their first cbr250, a red on, said they will have abs version in February. We are going to pop in shortly for a quick look.

Oh yes, the real news is the price here................ 96k

[thaicbr]

Wife just got a call from Honda Chumphon. They have just received their first cbr250, a red on, said they will have abs version in February. We are going to pop in shortly for a quick look.

Oh yes, the real news is the price here................ 96k

As far as I'm aware 96k is actually the dealer price... Let us know if that's what they actually sell it for when they check their paperwork properly.......

[JUDAS]

Wife just got a call from Honda Chumphon. They have just received their first cbr250, a red on, said they will have abs version in February. We are going to pop in shortly for a quick look.

Oh yes, the real news is the price here................ 96k

As far as I'm aware 96k is actually the dealer price... Let us know if that's what they actually sell it for when they check their paperwork properly.......

Surprised myself but will talk to them in the next hours or so and report back. Bit silly of them to tell me their cost price if you're correct. Might offer 97k

[thaicbr]

Ok this is for anyone that intends changing the IRC tyres on their CBR250 for something a bit stickier..

I will buy your new stock IRC'S for 3,000b. As i need a set of tyres for my VX800 once i get it repaired.

If you are interested PM me.. Thanks Allan

[katabeachbum]

od secondhand market valuation

a 147k Ninja should sell for 80k after 24 months

while a 100k cbr should sell for 75k after 24 months

May seem odd...but will prove to be true. You only need check second hand prices of the 150 to understand. Argually the least depreciating bike in Thailand. The 250 will be the same, Im sure.

Other than diehard Kawa fans, no one is going to pay 100K (or more) for a 2 year old bike with no warranty when u can buy a brand new 3y warranty 250 Honda bike virtually every 100m in any city.

But time will prove if that is correct or no, regardless of our current thoughts.

agree on the cbr 150, as it had no competition

using present/historical values for Ninjette and future values for CBR250 still doesnt work for me

however 2 years from now, I have problems to see CBR fetching 75 if you can get 2 pot Ninja for 80 (same age and milage), or new cbr 150

glad the D-Tracker is keeping its value well, just got 115k for mine, again not much competition. yet

as for the hondas 3 year warranty, has anyone got anything covered after 2 years? I believe its engine and injection only, while kwaker actually has supplied some new chains and sprockets

[Kernow86]

Wife just got a call from Honda Chumphon. They have just received their first cbr250, a red on, said they will have abs version in February. We are going to pop in shortly for a quick look.

Oh yes, the real news is the price here................ 96k

Maybe you should buy a few? Sell them on to those paying over the odds and make a little something for yourself!

[Just1Voice]

Uh...no.

After 2 years, the Cbr150 would still be worth 45-50k. So quite a bit less than 1k/mo.

The launch price was only in effect for a few months and the example was for a 2 year-old Ninja.

No need to get offensive just because you are no good at math or keeping up with the thread or reading comprehension for that matter.

I'll go slower....

I have owned the old model for 96 months at amonthly cost of less than 500/month. see above.

Just1voice recently got rid of his after 18 months at a cost of less than 800/month.

So a 2 y/o old model would lose less than 1000/mo. Probably around 900/month. Hence the "somewhat".

A 2 y/o Ninja would sell between 80-100.000. Max. 80,000 more likely.

147500-80000= -67,500. divide by 24 . cost 2812/month.

Honda 250 after 2 years? 75,000?

100,000-75,000= 25,000. divide by 24. cost 1041/month.

I've already got bicycle. In North America we don't call them pushbikes. Because you pedal them. You don't push them.

You actually should have kept mum, as the figures look even worse now for the Ninjas.

od secondhand market valuation

a 147k Ninja should sell for 80k after 24 months

while a 100k cbr should sell for 75k after 24 months

Hes clearly got a bias.. And wants to make a point which ultimately is over pennies different a month anyway.

If a 1000 baht is such a big deal I would really question the actual interest or desire.

You buy a bike because you want one.. Your going to own it for a year or two hopefully ?? If I had to take the one I didnt want as much, for a couple of years, over a 1000 baht here or there a month, I would be on the next plane to go make some proper money !!

So the whole thing is an irrelevance. Buy a CBR if you like it.. Buy a ninja if you like it.. But the whole 'this one is 20 baht a day cheaper' I mean really !! Does your pocket money from the paper round not cover it ! Your using something thats about a 1/4 of a beer daily to justify a purchase you will live with for years.

I have no bias on either bike.. I say buy the one you want the most. Making up stats to defend the choice undermines the bike itself.

I have to agree with LOS, as what he says goes back t my 3 questions. 1-Do I like it? 2-Does it suite my needs/purposes? 3-Can I afford it? For me personally it boiled down to #2 - suiting my needs, as #1 & #3 were pretty much a non issue. I need (want) a bike that handles well in the city, as well as on the highway, as my driving is about 50-50 for both. After leasing a Ninja 250 for a few days, and then deliberately taking it into Chiang Mai during rush hour traffic, that pretty much put the dampers on that. When I tested the 150, doing the same, there was very little difference between the new and the old in agility for weaving in and out.

As for highway speeds, I still don't know what top end is on the 150, but I know I've had mine over 135 twice now with no problem getting there. And let's be honest, at nearly 62 in a few weeks, do I really need a bike that will go much faster than that on the highways? At 22-32-42 I would say "Hel_l yes!" But at 62, with some medical problems, the answer is "nope, not really".

Forget about the comparisons to other bikes in regards to pricing. Look at what you like, what suits your needs/purposes, and go for that. I know a guy who has the last of the old model CBR's, a KLX for off roading, and just bought a Ninja 650 for the highway, and loves all 3 for different reasons.

As for me, I'll keep my 150 for about 2 years, which is pretty much my limit on bikes, then see what the new 150 and new 250 have to offer at that time and go from there.

Have fun, ride safe and be happy with whatever you get.

[thaicbr]

Bobbin... Can you stop quibbling about the price of the Ninja compared to the Cbr.. so this thread can GET back on track ABOUT the CBR250......please.

They have the same displacement, but are different bikes and as such will be attractive to certain riders for those reasons.. Just leave it at that..aiiiii

[Kernow86]

Well said! I have been skipping those posts!

[mbox]

Bobbin... Can you stop quibbling about the price of the Ninja compared to the Cbr.. so this thread can GET back on track ABOUT the CBR250......please.

They have the same displacement, but are different bikes and as such will be attractive to certain riders for those reasons.. Just leave it at that..aiiiii

seconded

[bobbin]

Ok.