Marriage Visa Nightmare - Chaeng Watthana No Longer Accepts 40,000+ Income, Only 400K

[robinstweart]

Yesterday (Thursday) I went to Chaeng Watthana Immigration office to do my annual marriage visa extension. I am married to my Thai wife since 14 years and have been doing this visa since 6 years. Every year, I show my income from abroad (I'm a shareholder and hold a board position in a company abroad). I live in Thailand, don't work and get about 80,000 Baht per month every month since over 6 years.

Every year, I get a letter from the embassy that states that I get this income. I get it translated into Thai and certified. Yesterday I went with the same documents that I always go with together with my wife. The officer took a look at my documents and said "you don't have 400,000 cannot make visa". I pointed to the income letter and my bank statements to prove it and told him that I have done this for the past 6 years (6 extensions in my passport).

So he tells me to wait and goes to take my file which weighs about 20 pounds. He puts it on the table and reads it all, then tells me "cannot do anymore, must have 400,000 in bank". I tell him again that I've been doing this for 6 years and it was always accepted. I even printed the police order (555 something number) for him and showed it to him.

He took it, read it, then ripped it into small pieces and put it in the trash, telling me again that I need to show 400,000. He also says that "cannot do anymore 40,000+ per month".

I'm like ...what the hell? So I ask him to speak to his superior. He does that, then comes back and says the superior told him the same. I ask to see his superior and he tells me that I can't do that, he doesn't want to see me.

During this whole time, he chit chats with my wife and tries to hit on her (I can speak Thai but didn't show him). He tells her how beautiful she is and if she wants to go drink a coffee sometime with him. My wife politely declined so he turns back to me and tells me "you show 400,000 or go out from Thailand, don't want farang no have money here".

I have never seen anything like this. I am not joking. I just bought a house and a new car. I need my money for other things right now. Yes I have 400,000 but I don't want them in the bank locked up for 3 months right now.

This is insane ...why would he not accept my income letter and evidence as always?

I realize I might have gotten an officer on a bad day, but I switched counters and went to the lady who did my last years extension and he followed me there and started talking trash there until she said that I would need to sort it out with him.

I told him that I would try with another officer on another day and he told me "I stay here every day you try you cannot".

I realize that nobody here can help me, but I just needed to get this off my chest. My visa expires in 3 weeks and then what? I did absolutely nothing wrong to this guy. I did my sawatdee with my hands very politely, sat down, gave him the documents and 20 seconds later after reviewing them he started telling me that I needed 400,000 and it wasn't possible to do the 40,0000 per month anymore.

Oh and he even claimed that the 40,000 per month option was only available if I had a work permit. I told him that these are 2 different visas and rules and showed him the police order saying 40,000 per month or 400,000 and he just ripped it up and threw it in the trash.

I'm totally down right now. I've been living here for 12 years and my entire live is here.

Edited March 15, 2013 by robinstweart

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Robin

How old are you? Be nice to be 50, then with your baht 80,000 a month income, you could do a Retirement extension.

Mac

[beano2274]

Also who told you that the Embassy letter needed to be translated? I use the same method and have never been asked to or presented the letter in any other language than English.

[robinstweart]

Robin

How old are you? Be nice to be 50, then with your baht 80,000 a month income, you could do a Retirement extension.

Mac

I'm 36. Been in Thailand since my mid 20's and married to the same wife. I've never had problems with immigration and I guess it's just one crazy officer, but the fact that he goes behind me when I went to another officer is really just plain evil. It's almost like he doesn't want me to find a way around it, even though the law clearly says that I can use the 40,000 option and have been using it for so many years. The entire folder he pulled up from me is full of extensions with the same documents.

[robinstweart]

Also who told you that the Embassy letter needed to be translated? I use the same method and have never been asked to or presented the letter in any other language than English.

That was the lady that did my extension last year. She told me to get the embassy letter translated and bring it to her the next day. She issued my 30 days under consideration right away, though. So I thought if I needed it last year I will need it this year too. I guess I had even more documents that are really needed, which is why I don't understand why this guy simply refused to honor the law that exists and then blocked any attempts of me trying to explain it.

Again, I never ever had problems with Thai immigration, ever. Just this year, it's been an absolute nightmare. And I don't know why because he could clearly see that I have been getting extensions this way for the past 6 years. When I pointed that fact to him he said that the law changed, then that the officers that gave me those extensions didn't have a clue and even said that the one that gave me the extension last year wasn't working here anymore. She did however and when I walked to her desk he followed me there and started explaining his theory until she smiled at me and said I had to resolve it with him.

I'm lost here. I wanted to get my permanent residence done this year but if this guy blocks my visa extension I will have to start all over and wait for several years again.

Does anyone know if there's a way to complain about a certain officer?

[Eddy B]

You are at the main immigration office of Thailand and you got this kind of treatment? Blows my mind..........how long til we all get kicked-out of the hub of everything?

[robinstweart]

You are at the main immigration office of Thailand and you got this kind of treatment? Blows my mind..........how long til we all get kicked-out of the hub of everything?

I should probably mention that I spent 4 hours from when I gave my application until I walked out of there. 4 hours with the same officer. My wife and I kept demanding to see a higher officer to get him to explain the rules but he said I couldn't go where his boss's office is. He walked there a few times but kept coming back with the same answer.

I am living in Thailand for long enough to know that he had to save his face and that once he had his theory he could not back down.

I wold not complain if I was a backpacker with no money but I showed my bank book that goes back to December 2011 with regular 80,000 Baht transfers. Never missed a month. I always come well dressed and my wife does too. I even provided the wire transfer slips to show that the money is indeed coming from outside and not just deposited on an ATM. It shows my company name and he date it was transferred into Bangkok Bank.

He claimed that he didn't know if I had this money the coming next month and that this was no guarantee, so I would have to show 400,000 in the bank.

[FritsSikkink]

Go to a lawyer, let him/her check the law, if nothing has changed let him/her come with you to immigration.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Wow. I'm reading more and more incidents of complications cropping up inside and outside of Thailand at immigration offices and embassies. Hope these are coincidental aberrations.

To the OP. Would using a (more costly) visa agent give you an alternative route around your problem? Don't know if they can do marriage extensions because of the requirement of the presence of both partners. But TiT.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Mobi]

If you read an adjacent thread entitled : Udon Immigration - A Convenient Excuse Or A Worrying New Trend? There does indeed seem to be a worrying trend.

The guy in Udon, who, like the OP, had renewed his marriage visa extension for many years and was actually told by an immigration official that they wanted to reduce the member of farangs living in Thailand.

In both cases, you could never dismiss the possibility that a backhander may have eased the path, even though,in both situations the officer didn't ask for anything. You have to understand that they may be very nervous about being 'named and shamed' and that any offers must be made very surreptitiously. That is why many immigration officers - particularly here in Pattaya, - prefer to deal with an 'intermediary' (i.e a visa company).

Nevertheless, I am convinced there is a general drive to reduce what is perceived to be the number of 'low end farangs' living here, and it all started some years ago when they started hitting on the visa runners. At about that time, I foolishly tried to switch from a retirement extension - which I had been doing for several years - to a marriage extension, and to cut a long story short, it was a bloody nightmare and I was within 24 hour of having to leave the country before I switched back to retirement extensions which I have used ever since with no problems.

Rightly or wrongly, they seem to take the view that retirees are desirable and bring valued pension money to Thailand to live on, on whereas farang husbands of Thai women are generally low life scroungers who do little or nothing for the country. (The fact that the OP was asked to produce 400K in the bank, rather than proof of annual income - which lets face it could be 'fixed' - seems to confirm this view.)

(In some cases they are probably correct, but the same could equally be said of some retirees.)

But the plain fact is that they have been making it harder and harder for farangs under 50 years old who have no work in Thailand (i.e no work permit) to renew their extensions based on marriage. If you look back through the Thai visa forums you will find this over and over again, whereas retirees are more or less left unscathed.

I am sure you are aware that all marriage extensions have to be approved by Head office in Bangkok, whereas retirement extensions can be approved 100% by local immigration departments. This adds another dimension to the already murky issue.

Regardless, there is no doubt that the word is out to get tougher on marriage extensions, and it may get worse.

One day, we ,may all be shown the door. We may have been living here for half our lives, but our legality in the LOS is only good until our current annual visa extension expires. Be prepared for the worst.

I am.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mobi

[2020]

I have a similar problem here, and thats using a lawyer!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625708-visa-extenton-rules-non-imm-o/

[cooked]

Extension of visa due to marriage gives the guys more work, if I understand correctly. Even if the 90 days visit to immigration only takes you 30 minutes (yes, happened last time), they still have to send the paper work to Bangkok after your visit. They don't like it and they are constantly trying to get you on to a 'retirement extension'.

They also don't like Farangs that get more in a month than they do in a year. Understandable. Not a job I would like to be doing I must admit.

[david555]

Extension of visa due to marriage gives the guys more work, if I understand correctly. Even if the 90 days visit to immigration only takes you 30 minutes (yes, happened last time), they still have to send the paper work to Bangkok after your visit. They don't like it and they are constantly trying to get you on to a 'retirement extension'.

They also don't like Farangs that get more in a month than they do in a year. Understandable. Not a job I would like to be doing I must admit.

and combined with the extra influx from Russians they are overcrowd in work which does not make them more happier......, anyway a immgr. officer with a bachelor degree earnings are around 15000 bhat , not so bad on Thai wages and a pension waiting for them which is not for all Thais waiting

[Lite Beer]

I have a similar problem here, and thats using a lawyer!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625708-visa-extenton-rules-non-imm-o/

You have a similar problem because you are using a lawyer.

Give him the boot.

[beano2274]

Also who told you that the Embassy letter needed to be translated? I use the same method and have never been asked to or presented the letter in any other language than English.

That was the lady that did my extension last year. She told me to get the embassy letter translated and bring it to her the next day. She issued my 30 days under consideration right away, though. So I thought if I needed it last year I will need it this year too. I guess I had even more documents that are really needed, which is why I don't understand why this guy simply refused to honor the law that exists and then blocked any attempts of me trying to explain it.

Again, I never ever had problems with Thai immigration, ever. Just this year, it's been an absolute nightmare. And I don't know why because he could clearly see that I have been getting extensions this way for the past 6 years. When I pointed that fact to him he said that the law changed, then that the officers that gave me those extensions didn't have a clue and even said that the one that gave me the extension last year wasn't working here anymore. She did however and when I walked to her desk he followed me there and started explaining his theory until she smiled at me and said I had to resolve it with him.

I'm lost here. I wanted to get my permanent residence done this year but if this guy blocks my visa extension I will have to start all over and wait for several years again.

Does anyone know if there's a way to complain about a certain officer?

I think you will find that permanent residence you must have the money invested here or have a Work permit for three years the same as the extensions.

[2020]

I have a similar problem here, and thats using a lawyer!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625708-visa-extenton-rules-non-imm-o/

You have a similar problem because you are using a lawyer.

Give him the boot.

On the verge, just mulling over a few options this weekend and will make a decision monday.

[beano2274]

I use the income letter from the Embassy, also my bank books to show money coming in and going out, never had a problem. My office Nonthaburi

[Mario2008]

You ask to see his supervisor and if he refuses you call the immigration hotline, 1178, and state the problem and ask if there has indeed been a change. Most times they will sort it out.

[TerryLH]

I think we'll find that there's more to this story than we've been told so far.

Maybe a misunderstanding or some such.

If this occurred Thursday, and it was for real, I think there would be somebody else here telling a similar story. And before 5PM, too.

Too bad the timing was such that the story can't easily be verified today. Or more likely, to find that there hasn't been a change.

Terry

[mania]

During this whole time, he chit chats with my wife and tries to hit on her (I can speak Thai but didn't show him).

He tells her how beautiful she is and if she wants to go drink a coffee sometime with him.

Oh you are a much more tolerant man than I am

[robinstweart]

I think we'll find that there's more to this story than we've been told so far.Maybe a misunderstanding or some such.If this occurred Thursday, and it was for real, I think there would be somebody else here telling a similar story. And before 5PM, too.Too bad the timing was such that the story can't easily be verified today. Or more likely, to find that there hasn't been a change.Terry

I'm not asking you to believe it, I just wrote it how it was. I didn't do anything else than sit down, gave him the papers and he immediately rejected it. I had the same paperwork as the previous 6 years.

I will definitely call the immigration hotline on Monday as suggested by someone, thank you so much for that. I wouldn't say anything if I was a "low life farang" that lives off the wife, but my wife doesn't work and we just bought a new house for 3 million baht and a car for 1,5 million Baht. All with money sent from abroad. He can see that from the receipts. I've been spending 80,000 a month for the past 6 years at least and even more before that, all in Thailand. I'm certainly contributing more to the economy than this officer who apparently has nothing better to do than to make life harder for people who have everything in order.

You ask to see his supervisor and if he refuses you call the immigration hotline, 1178, and state the problem and ask if there has indeed been a change. Most times they will sort it out.

Thank you so much. Once I speak to the hotline on Monday I will let you know. I wrote down the officers name and number and guess what ...of the last 30 minutes I also made a recording of the conversation with my phone without his knowledge, because it was getting so ridiculous, where he clearly says that the 40,000 option doesn't exist and that I should go home if I had no money. I will not post it if I get my visa, but if I don't get it I will post it publicly and send it to newspapers as well.

Edited March 15, 2013 by robinstweart

[robinstweart]

There was actually a 70-something Caucasian guy right after me whom he also appeared to give a hard time. I only overheard him that he didn't have 800,000 in the bank, only a pension. Not sure if he ended up getting his extension or if he had the same problems. He was there with a Thai guy who looked like a visa agent. Doubt he will post here, though.

[Hugh Jarse]

Go to a lawyer, let him/her check the law, if nothing has changed let him/her come with you to immigration.

This is a deeply disturbing situation as the rules state 400k in the bank or 40k a month, this is adhered to here in Chiang Mai and elsewhere. Go see a decent lawyer. It seems the Immigration Officer is naieve, a trainee perhaps or just a block head/nasty piece of works who has had little if any training. What is also alarming is the conversation he had with your wife. This is thoroughly unprofessional and he needs to be reported. That said given your aspirations to apply for residency this is easier said than done. Good luck anyway.

[gamini]

you have been living here for 12 years without a job. You are 36 which means that you "retired' here at the age of 24.

I think this this would seem a bit strange to a Thai. They could be suspicious as to where you are getting the money to live on. Also they could think that someone who can retire at 24 should be wealthy enough to put Bt400,000 in the bank. I'm sure you might be genuine and honest but unfortunately so many undesirable foreigners are trying to live here on marriage visas and falsifying income that immigration is trying to stop them somehow, which makes it difficult for genuine people like you.

If you have lived in Thailand for 12 years you should have tried to make a lot of Thai friends who could have helped you out in such situations. If such an officer was so rude to me, my Thai friends would make things very difficult for him. You could use a lawyer but it might backfire

I guess the best thing you can do is leave and get a visa in KL and come back and try again with Br400,000 in the bank

[StevenHeidbriderSr]

I have gotten the feeling that our money is wanted but not us. I think the powers that be will soon discover that without US there is no money.

[robinstweart]

you have been living here for 12 years without a job. You are 36 which means that you "retired' here at the age of 24.

I think this this would seem a bit strange to a Thai. They could be suspicious as to where you are getting the money to live on. Also they could think that someone who can retire at 24 should be wealthy enough to put Bt400,000 in the bank. I'm sure you might be genuine and honest but unfortunately so many undesirable foreigners are trying to live here on marriage visas and falsifying income that immigration is trying to stop them somehow, which makes it difficult for genuine people like you.

If you have lived in Thailand for 12 years you should have tried to make a lot of Thai friends who could have helped you out in such situations. If such an officer was so rude to me, my Thai friends would make things very difficult for him. You could use a lawyer but it might backfire

I guess the best thing you can do is leave and get a visa in KL and come back and try again with Br400,000 in the bank

True. But I clearly showed him that the income was from outside of Thailand. I even had wire transfer receipts for the past 12 months printed, as I do every year, that show that Bangkok Bank received the transfer from my company name. It shows the company name, the country and even my foreign bank that sent it. All this matches my financial information from the Embassy. This is much more than the simple "affidavit" that US citizens for example need to show. I'm not falsifying information, it's backed by hard evidence. And not just this year, but it's been like that for the past 6 years.

When I told him to check the paperwork of the past 6 years (which he brought to the table), he said that the officers in the past didn't have a clue and wrongly issued me a visa extension when they shouldn't have.

I have other things to pay in the next 2 months than let the funds sit in the bank account untouched. We just bought a new house and a new car. We're looking to buy a large lot of land and had actually intended to make a down-payment on that. Now it's messing up all of our plans.

It's clear to me that the rules haven't changed, but the immigration officer is just being an (insert word here). I also don't want to create unnecessary problems for the officer as that might backfire on me one day. But he's obviously doing his best in trying to ruin my chances of getting a visa. Maybe he's jealous, I don't know. He basically told my wife right in the face that I should "go out from Thailand" if I didn't have the 400k.

I understand that he might think that I have enough money to put 400k in the bank, but if the rules clearly state 400k in the bank OR 40k per month income, then I think he should also respect that. Some people might now have 400k in the bank but think that they can extend it with the 40k and then they run into even bigger problems than me, which isn't really fair.

I showed him the police order (in both Thai and English) that I printed out and he just ripped it up and tossed it into the trash bin right in front of my eyes.

This has just been a huge shock to me, because I've never had any problems with any officer over the past 6 years that I've done this, or even as long as I've been in Thailand on other visas. That said, this was also my first MALE officer. I've only had FEMALE officers in the past, so maybe he viewed me as competition which is even more disturbing, considering the way tried to hit on my wife.

Edited March 15, 2013 by robinstweart

[robinstweart]

Oh, one very important thing I forgot to mention (sorry, it's been an awful day). He actually tried to make me sign a letter for him, in English, stating that I would NEVER ever again during my coming years in Thailand use the 40k income option per month ever again.

Is that even legal? I obviously didn't sign this for him.

[StevenHeidbriderSr]

I understand your frustration and started a post on the Issan forum that our Investment in Thailand such as building a house and buying a car etc.. should also be taken into consideration.

Do they really think a the average Thai woman has the funds in excess of one million baht to build a house etc.. I know that the Thai woman must swear that the funds used to buy property are hers and as far as that goes whats mine is hers and vice versa after 20+ years of marriage so the funds are hers too.

It doesnt help i know but after having to pay an agent 15k to get a MFA stamp believe me I UNDERSTAND.

[gk10002000]

Don't forget that the "rules" as you say are the MINIMUM required. Meeting those criteria is no guarantee that the Thais have to accept you. Being retired since 24 and now being 36 seems a bit odd and I know I would question that if I were a proper immigration official in any country that takes immigration seriously. Not to mention that the requirements may now be 65 K and not 40K a month. Certainly is that way for retirement visas, so I would assume it is for Marriage extensions also.

[USNret]

I have a similar problem here, and thats using a lawyer!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625708-visa-extenton-rules-non-imm-o/

You have a similar problem because you are using a lawyer.

Give him the boot.

On the verge, just mulling over a few options this weekend and will make a decision monday.

Your opening post on that discussion, along with Lite's reply, should have resulted in immediate firing of that lawyer. You doing the research for him? What up with dat?