The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces

Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention?

That is, perhaps, the most inane question I have ever read on TVF.

The vote balance is not matching the voices in Parliament. This is the crux of the whole issue, and explosive anger against it was finally sparked by a foolish pair of bills pushed through, literally, in the dark of the night. This is the symptom, the demonstrations. The cause is the imbalance in voting rights being voiced in the government. I promise you, I am not choosing sides, and the vote was (vaguely) 55% versus 45%, but there is not a 45% voice because of what is called 'gerrymandering'. I hope that poor people always will have a voice, I was poor and actually understand their concerns, but the situation here is insane.

As a good Thai man pointed out, the representation in Parliament should reflect the percentage of voters. Simple and true and very hard to deny.

We have the same problem in the US. I am hoping that Thais find a solution that other nations can model. As things are, no one has a good example to follow. Not one single nation has solved this power struggle problem, being one of using the democratic model to achieve very undemocratic ends.

I think, maybe, the Thais will surprise the world and find a way to balance 'gerrymandering' and democracy. The US certainly cannot; 'gerrymandering' is almost as fixed in our culture as McDonalds. My government seems to think that democracy only has one model, which is both arrogant and fallacious. The government of every country is going to be unique, if we like it or not. America cannot be a model for foreign peoples because foreign peoples are....not American. One size does not fit all, one idea does not suit all, and the ideals of one people do not have supremacy over others. We are foolishly, stupidly, trying to foist American values into Iraq. Oh, boy, that one is working! Now the west is trying to impose western values here? Calling that stupid is an insult to stupid people.

You might as well insist that a Bangkok taxi driver use his meter. Good luck with that. You can negotiate, but if he says no, he says no. Next taxi, please.

As the Great Man said, 'Thailand is for Thais'. There is no place for any foreigner here who has no respect for Thai culture. The widespread Thai bashing by westerners is simply incredulous, ridiculous, arrogant, self-important posturing, and rude. Of course there are parts of Thai culture that infuriate me, but I am a guest in their house, and a student of life. I will not insult them.

I never learned anything from people who agreed with me, or were like me, or shared my aspirations. I welcome people who are different than myself. Only they can be my teachers.

For those who truly wish to see the malevolence of this government simply look at how little the PTP has done with regard to stability in the south because of they nature of their vote. Democracy is a much used word which has no value in this country. Like so many things it is a cosmetic condition for superficial face within a culture that worships power and money and will adopt any form of manipulation to achieve and hold on to that power regardless of the civil unrest that it causes. All this Thai brothers and sisters rhetoric that flows so freely from the Shins is pure manipulation lacking in substance and sincerity. It's purpose is purely to secure the vote and cling on to the power and privileged.in a country gridlocked by greed and stupidity.

My friend, you have described almost every culture on the planet. This is no criticism.

How can the PTP issue a royal decree?

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as harsh as it sounds, perhaps a civil war will change the course of politics and corruption in thailand and is what is needed

Probably not. As long as corruption is accepted at the grass roots level, corrupted government is what you get. A civil war, when bloody enough, could hammer in the notion that corruption is bad, but would also destroy the country for a few generations.

The change needs to come from the ground. A mechanism for brainwashing is already in place, so it wouldn't be that hard to pump in the message "corruption is evil". Just stick it into every single soap on TV.

The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship.

Why the Central and Southern provinces don't vote for Thaksin, if he is really the messiah you claim ?

The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters.

And nor it should.

But a designee of the Thaksin syndicate will be reelected again and the Thai cycle will repeat.

Thats called Democracy... If its what the people want, then however much bangkok hates it, thats the outcome.

Democrat Party leader Bhichai Rattakul called on Yingluck to show courage by stepping down in order to turn crisis into opportunity.

He said Yingluck can avoid plunging the country into chaos and Thailand becoming a failed state by quitting, postponing the February 2 election, paving the way for a new Cabinet that would not serve longer than 18 months

but who exactly do the Democrats propose would form the new Cabinet?

Don't forget, a lot of the protesters are not part of the Democrat party. Just tired of government corruption and lies. This isn't about the Democrats, though they are leading the protests. If it was just to get them back in power, the protesters wouldn't be there.

Well, why not put your claim it to the test at the ballot box?

Why are you afraid of an election?

Just a thought, but what would the result of a legitimate election be if votes weren't bought ?

This isn't a religious divide, it's the poor who hold the power by the shear number who can vote - the people need to be educated on the voting process to enable a true legitimate government to be formed.

respect your own vote

don't sell it!

a curfew makes sense to keep order .

otherwise if shes steps down the whole place will erupt in fighting to the bitter end

In the end the root cause come down to a fragmented and uneducated population who have been brainwashed by culture and browbeaten by erroneous political rhetoric.. The voting public accept corruption as long as they benefit in person making them as corrupt as the very politicians the elect. Perhaps if the simply raised their expectations of those who are voted to serve ,then they would see the error of their ways. You get what you vote for. Decide now if you are happy with acceptance or do you want improvement for the whole country.

The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters.

The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship.

Final say by my Thai wife and friends

If your not a Thai citizen

your though's mean nothing

Please take a long walk and look after your own country before you cast coments on our country

you are just a guest here

if you not like the heat in the kitchen, go home

Yep, the fight will go on and on. Poor, poor Thailand.

Final say by my Thai wife and friends

If your not a Thai citizen

your though's mean nothing

Please take a long walk and look after your own country before you cast coments on our country

you are just a guest here

if you not like the heat in the kitchen, go home

Don't forget, a lot of the protesters are not part of the Democrat party. Just tired of government corruption and lies. This isn't about the Democrats, though they are leading the protests. If it was just to get them back in power, the protesters wouldn't be there.

Well, why not put your claim it to the test at the ballot box?

Why are you afraid of an election?

Well, perhaps a televised debate of the government's policies, a month before the election, would be a nice start. Yingluck's policies would have been torn to pieces - the rice scam in particular. Really want to see Abhisit vs Yingluck in front of a national audience. Same as is done in Australia and elsewhere. Not just some stupid billboard advertising 15K a month minimum salary - the consequences of that were obvious, but the government should have defended it in the public arena.

Yes, this is a good idea, but at the end of February, when all television signals are slated to become digital, the poor will not be able to watch. I simply cannot see how all the people in the rural areas will have instant access to a converter box, or a digital television. And the coupons being offered are a tear in the ocean. The debate is going to go silent for them very soon....that will serve the aims of both sides, neither of which can even set foot on the moral high ground, much less claim it--it would burn their feet.

what a load of wallop

you can buy a converter box on line for less than 1000 bhat

thats about 1 month cable cost

The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters.

Here's an idea. Why not hold an election and see what the electorate actually wants. If she loses the election, she won't be PM.

And if she wins the election, why do you say she would be PM?

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a curfew makes sense to keep order .

otherwise if shes steps down the whole place will erupt in fighting to the bitter end

Basically, you seem to be saying that the police will not be able to keep control, which is their job. If they can't and the whole place erupts in fighting, how can anyone fault the army from stepping on?

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Look at the picture. These are not thugs or movie stars (both groups who are much less attractive than the peopole shown). These are the beautiful people who are extraordinarily ordinary.

These are real Thai people, not the standaerd loons on television.

I hear their voices. I see their eyes.

I see them.....and give them each a smile (even the two men almost hidden in the background).

In my experience most Thais are like this, basically nice people who rightly regard politicians in the same way as they do snakes or policemen...... they shouldn't be trusted, aren't very nice but as they will always be around you may as well accept the fact and live with it.

Of course the current dilemma is summed up in the OP with reference to the PM thinking about opting to issue a decree and that Thaksin should be staying away from politics when we all know Thaksin is the one who doing the thinking for the PM and the last thing he is thinking about is staying away from politics.

Democrat Party leader Bhichai Rattakul called on Yingluck to show courage by stepping down in order to turn crisis into opportunity.

He said Yingluck can avoid plunging the country into chaos and Thailand becoming a failed state by quitting, postponing the February 2 election, paving the way for a new Cabinet that would not serve longer than 18 months

but who exactly do the Democrats propose would form the new Cabinet?

A couple of things:

Bichai is in his 80's these days and while an important advisor to the Dem's, he is not "Democratic Party Leader." He has had different opinions from Abhisit in the past, and here was only stating his opinion as a Statesman (former Dep. PM). From the article, he fears that Thailand may become a failed state.

On who, while I have read on twitter there has been a few lists going around, there is one list on Attimes.com in an article written by Shawn Crispin over a month ago.

The big issue seems to be that the EC has said they can't postpone an election without the Caretaker government's approval and the Caretaker government is, from what I understand, only in power for 180 days. We do know that there needs to be at least 475 elected MP's for parliament to be valid, and 28 constituencies have not been able to register. Hence, it seems that even if an election takes place, there won't be enough elected MP's to form a government. Bi-elections will take place, but who knows how long that might take? Add to this that there are some court cases which could end up with some MP's who are elected being banned, and you can see the possibility that there won't be a government in a country that wants democracy.

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Surely a reform council under the Shinawatras will bring a stop to vote buying and corruption and at the end they'll ban themself from politics and seize their own money???

Yunglik didn't think about a reform council until after Sithep made it one of his primary aims. If I were a voting Thai citizen then I would be concerned that her idea of reform may not be for the benefit of Thailand. We have heard Sutheps Reform ideas (corruption, vote buying, police ect.). What do we know of the proposals from PTP? Not a lot I think. They will probably make reforms that suit their clan rather than the good of the country.

Yingluck is brainstorming....

She provided the storm, I guess.

And who provided the brain?

Hands down it was the scarecrow

She want to opt for decree?

She should opt for resignation immediately.

500billion bahts losses in the rice scheme. Where have all the cash gone to?

A farmer has died for nothing, just because the government never pay him payment cause him to have in big debt.

This shouldn't have happened at all.

An innocent live just sacrificed away.

RIP

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=491640244205765&set=vb.372055249497599&type=2&theater

Red-shirt leader Somsak Boonngam-anong, second from right

Where is the Red Shirt? Must be laundry day...

The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters.

The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship.

The democrats will not succeed in that. They will have to work hard to convince the voters in the north of the just cause of their fight. The missunderstood fugitive still seems to be a hero for many. The dems will have to prove to the people up north what the shinaclan is all about.

The question is, how does a party that is too incompetent to win even one election in two decades manage to hang around and act like they have anything to contribute to the country?

Surely a reform council under the Shinawatras will bring a stop to vote buying and corruption and at the end they'll ban themself from politics and seize their own money???

Yunglik didn't think about a reform council until after Sithep made it one of his primary aims. If I were a voting Thai citizen then I would be concerned that her idea of reform may not be for the benefit of Thailand. We have heard Sutheps Reform ideas (corruption, vote buying, police ect.). What do we know of the proposals from PTP? Not a lot I think. They will probably make reforms that suit their clan rather than the good of the country.

How bloody lame does somebody have to be to believe that vote buying has any basis in fact to justify toppling the elected government? If the accusations were substantive all Suthep had to do is let the elections run and call in international monitors to expose and dismantle PTP and Thaksin for good, both in Thailand and in world opinion.

Red-shirt leader Somsak Boonngam-anong, second from right

Where is the Red Shirt? Must be laundry day...

Oh this man.. He even come out on tv debate with the other yellow guy.

Red-shirt leader Somsak Boonngam-anong, second from right

Where is the Red Shirt? Must be laundry day...

Looks like he might have eaten it.

He also suggested that former PM Thaksin Shinawatra return to face his jail terms and vow not to get involved in politics directly and indirectly.

There's your problem !!!!

Red-shirt leader Somsak Boonngam-anong, second from right

Where is the Red Shirt? Must be laundry day...

By Suthep's maths formula, at least 15000 white shirts in that photo alone

The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters.

You've got that right. Nothing that Yingluck does will satisfy Suthep and his cohorts except her resignation plus preferably also her going into exile.

Suthep has made perfectly clear that he wants to crate a situation that will allow him, respectively his PDRC or PCAD, to do the following, in chronological order:

• seize control of the government
• abrogate the current constitution
• get an interim constitution proclaimed
• get an interim government installed under the terms of the interim constitution
• carry out his so-called reforms
• get a new constitution drafted and proclaimed
• get a new parliament – House of Representatives and Senate – installed under the terms of the new constitution
• get a new Prime Minister elected and a new Council of Ministers (cabinet) approved by the new parliament

Suthep is a fanatic and will stop at nothing to achieve his goal, be that, failing Yingluck's resignation, the creation of complete chaos and anarchy, a bloodbath in confrontations of his demonstrators with law enforcement forces or with opposing demonstration groups, etc.

Whether that be a good thing or a bad thing, I leave to others to debate; I am but a silent observer of what is happing in far-away Thailand.