Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[Soutpeel]

Good point but there are a lot of 50+ guys still working and people will get up to BS not matter what. Maybe there will be an answer one day.

Yeah do away with the retirement visa...

[LivinLOS]

For the genuine under 50s not married that wish to stay here without working and can support themselves immigration should introduce an appropriate visa they could apply for to stay legally.

Lets suppose they did, and in similar manner they required the person to show on an annual basis they had THB 800k-1.0m in a Thai bank account (similar to a retirement visa), on suspects the vast majority of the target group would still be whining that they cant comply with the financial requirements.

Offshore O&G guys have been discussed numerous times, so one suspects this would be the sort of person who would have no problems in complying with this requirement, but one suspects there would be vast numbers of the "under 50 crowd" who couldn't

While this may be true, it would at least define who they want to long stay and who they dont. And let them clamp down on what they dont want.. There has to be some carrot with the stick.

Surely they want those who pump 1, 2 or even >3 mil a year into Thailand, who buy cars, rent fancy villas, and support families etc ?? But there has always been this huge hole, often filled with visa exempt entries or dubious visa options. Now they are saying they wish to close the door on non tourists, so are they really saying 'go away' to the multi millions these professional, working people bring in ??

Honestly I can think of maybe 10 people I know personally, who this law will effect, and each one of them is the exact professional type who pours money into the country (some who are REALLY pouring it in, land, new 5 series beemers, ducatis, KTMs, loads of toys etc.. a good few 100k a month) and right now they are saying theres no solution for them. Sure they can probably run around the law, but either they want them or they dont, if they dont fine, but that money will flow to another local country. Maybe its simply that time.

[ATF]

Blatantly accusing said establishment of wrongdoing, remember, the laws in this country state that it doesn't matter whether it is true or not; just if the establishment has lost business because of such statements.

Welcome to Thailand Mr. Rosewater. Will that be one years overstay or two?

I would expect the placed to be booked to the gills in the next few days. Better get a reservation while you can. Are they on Agoda?

[LivinLOS]

Seems a farang can get a visa (via a school) to learn SPANISH in LOS. Does this mean a Spanish guy can get a LOS visa (via a school) to improve his Spanish..??

They are called Study Visas and you can study anything you want. He could study a degree in Spanish if he wanted to. The ED visa is a Study Visa but it seems not many people study. It's like "optional". Serious students however can study anything including university degrees, golf, learning to fly, cooking, whatever. The options are limitless.

The options are not limitless as it has to be a government accredited school.. You cant study anything you wish (musical instruments, origmi, etc)..

In the old days they used to hand out EDs for diving, for 'studying Thai culture' etc without any school checks. Thats no longer the case.

[vesse]

I've read through this thread but didn't find an answer, should it exist.

Yesterday we read that one will be allowed to enter on three consecutive walk in visas until Aug 12th, and after that, depending on the interpretation, one or no re-entries. Does this latest news change this? Or can one hop in and out given they have a valid enough travel plan to present should it be asked? Will something change in August according to the latest? Are there any recent reports from border from those trying to do a visa run?

I have no personal interest in this (I have non-B and WP, family has non-O's) but I'd like to have Thailand's WikiTravel page to contain accurate information. As mentioned by someone backpackers can rarely present travel plans and this could be problematic for them as travel plan may be required also for Tourist Visa.

Sorry for commenting my own post but - anyone?

[ATF]

Seems a farang can get a visa (via a school) to learn SPANISH in LOS. Does this mean a Spanish guy can get a LOS visa (via a school) to improve his Spanish..??

They are called Study Visas and you can study anything you want. He could study a degree in Spanish if he wanted to. The ED visa is a Study Visa but it seems not many people study. It's like "optional". Serious students however can study anything including university degrees, golf, learning to fly, cooking, whatever. The options are limitless.

The options are not limitless as it has to be a government accredited school.. You cant study anything you wish (musical instruments, origmi, etc)..

In the old days they used to hand out EDs for diving, for 'studying Thai culture' etc without any school checks. Thats no longer the case.

I think if you paid $20-$30k US to do a PGA or learning to fly course and had the receipts to prove it. It would be OK. Other option of course is "learning" Thai for 25k baht a year.

[Cnxforever]

I suspect the real problems will surface in August and a clearer picture of what's really going on won't emerge until around September.

I predict there will be lots of problems and this will affect way more people than it's originally intended. I don't trust the tourist visa option at all now and will be actively looking into moving elsewhere in Asia.

I suspect the real problems will surface when entry to Thailand by air becomes an issue on 13 August. I can't picture that a check-in agent to BA in Birmingham is going to be all that happy trying to foresee what some Thai immigrations official halfway around the world is going to make of some passenger's passport that contains a number of Thai entry stamps. Or how about a new passport, a situation in which the passenger's "Thailand history" is all on the Thai immigrations computer and cannot be sussed out in advance.

The immigration boss could never think that far ahead as to consider the scenario you describe above the airlines will be faced to sort out the mess before they let people fly .

I am waiting for the response of airlines now as to how to treat passengers with several Thai stamps in there passport.

Maybe the immigration, TAT and Thai consulates abroad should advise return visitors with several stamps in their passport now to get a new passport every time you visit Thailand as the Immigration officer at Suvarnabhumi Airport might refuse you entry if he / she feels like it!

Or maybe Thailand does not need/want return visitors anymore?

[LivinLOS]

I've read through this thread but didn't find an answer, should it exist.

Yesterday we read that one will be allowed to enter on three consecutive walk in visas until Aug 12th, and after that, depending on the interpretation, one or no re-entries. Does this latest news change this? Or can one hop in and out given they have a valid enough travel plan to present should it be asked? Will something change in August according to the latest? Are there any recent reports from border from those trying to do a visa run?

I have no personal interest in this (I have non-B and WP, family has non-O's) but I'd like to have Thailand's WikiTravel page to contain accurate information. As mentioned by someone backpackers can rarely present travel plans and this could be problematic for them as travel plan may be required also for Tourist Visa.

Sorry for commenting my own post but - anyone?

What is said now, potentially badly reported or translated, or simply one officers interpretation.. is to early to see what the true rules will be.

However they appear to be saying, that after Aug 12, they will only allow one visa exempt entry without checking, and any further use of a visa exempt entry will require a credible tourist plan, probably hotel bookings, flights out, etc etc. This will be officer discretion and not guaranteed.

Thats pretty much the only way the quotes from the opening post can be understood.

[ATF]

I've read through this thread but didn't find an answer, should it exist.

Yesterday we read that one will be allowed to enter on three consecutive walk in visas until Aug 12th, and after that, depending on the interpretation, one or no re-entries. Does this latest news change this? Or can one hop in and out given they have a valid enough travel plan to present should it be asked? Will something change in August according to the latest? Are there any recent reports from border from those trying to do a visa run?

I have no personal interest in this (I have non-B and WP, family has non-O's) but I'd like to have Thailand's WikiTravel page to contain accurate information. As mentioned by someone backpackers can rarely present travel plans and this could be problematic for them as travel plan may be required also for Tourist Visa.

Sorry for commenting my own post but - anyone?

Just copy the statement at the beginning of the thread. There is no other interpretation.

[LivinLOS]

Seems a farang can get a visa (via a school) to learn SPANISH in LOS. Does this mean a Spanish guy can get a LOS visa (via a school) to improve his Spanish..??

They are called Study Visas and you can study anything you want. He could study a degree in Spanish if he wanted to. The ED visa is a Study Visa but it seems not many people study. It's like "optional". Serious students however can study anything including university degrees, golf, learning to fly, cooking, whatever. The options are limitless.

The options are not limitless as it has to be a government accredited school.. You cant study anything you wish (musical instruments, origmi, etc)..

In the old days they used to hand out EDs for diving, for 'studying Thai culture' etc without any school checks. Thats no longer the case.

I think if you paid $20-$30k US to do a PGA or learning to fly course and had the receipts to prove it. It would be OK. Other option of course is "learning" Thai for 25k baht a year.

You can think all you like.. But your not getting a visa out of the UK consuls or embassy without the accredited schools paperwork.. So you wouldn't be correct.

The days when you could 'study' anything are long gone. Study means a course at an accredited school.

[LivinLOS]

I suspect the real problems will surface in August and a clearer picture of what's really going on won't emerge until around September.

I predict there will be lots of problems and this will affect way more people than it's originally intended. I don't trust the tourist visa option at all now and will be actively looking into moving elsewhere in Asia.

I suspect the real problems will surface when entry to Thailand by air becomes an issue on 13 August. I can't picture that a check-in agent to BA in Birmingham is going to be all that happy trying to foresee what some Thai immigrations official halfway around the world is going to make of some passenger's passport that contains a number of Thai entry stamps. Or how about a new passport, a situation in which the passenger's "Thailand history" is all on the Thai immigrations computer and cannot be sussed out in advance.

The immigration boss could never think that far ahead as to consider the scenario you describe above the airlines will be faced to sort out the mess before they let people fly .

I am waiting for the response of airlines now as to how to treat passengers with several Thai stamps in there passport.

Maybe the immigration, TAT and Thai consulates abroad should advise return visitors with several stamps in their passport now to get a new passport every time you visit Thailand as the Immigration officer at Suvarnabhumi Airport might refuse you entry if he / she feels like it!

Or maybe Thailand does not need/want return visitors anymore?

As you say, how airlines parse this will be crucial. They are the ones who have to police this issue and its either one and done or not at all.. This 'maybe' doesnt work in that situation.

[ATF]

I think if you paid $20-$30k US to do a PGA or learning to fly course and had the receipts to prove it. It would be OK. Other option of course is "learning" Thai for 25k baht a year.

You can think all you like.. But your not getting a visa out of the UK consuls or embassy without the accredited schools paperwork.. So you wouldn't be correct.

The days when you could 'study' anything are long gone. Study means a course at an accredited school.

Any PGA school or flying school have to be accredited to the strictest of standards. A PGA card is your license to teach golf or play golf professionally and of course a pilots license isn't handed out willy nilly. But if they can't be done now I concede.

[brianP]

After seeing the US go out of control with immigration, it is logical. Legal folks are always suffering from the law breakers.

[ATF]

After seeing the US go out of control with immigration, it is logical. Legal folks are always suffering from the law breakers.

We are not talking about half of Mexico working in Thailand. We are talking about WASPs without the correct visas.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Lets suppose they did, and in similar manner they required the person to show on an annual basis they had THB 800k-1.0m in a Thai bank account (similar to a retirement visa), on suspects the vast majority of the target group would still be whining that they cant comply with the financial requirements.

Offshore O&G guys have been discussed numerous times, so one suspects this would be the sort of person who would have no problems in complying with this requirement, but one suspects there would be vast numbers of the "under 50 crowd" who couldn't

I honestly don't see why you cannot retire at any age provided you have the financial means to support yourself. This would be an excellent solution for Thailand. If a Thai wants to go to Europe or the States they have to show proof of funds. Why not Thailand then all this bickering would be over, instead of people continually having to skirt around the law.

I don't think Thailand is looking for 20 to 30 something year olds retiring here. Very few would actually be retired and would be working or up to other BS during the day.

Good point but there are a lot of 50+ guys still working and people will get up to BS not matter what. Maybe there will be an answer one day.

I would guess the fair answer would be raising the retirement age though not sure anyone wants to hear that.

[DrTuner]

I had to re-read the OP:

The national commander of Thai Immigration, Lt Gen Phanu Kerdlaphon

“Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist."

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

The writing on the wall .. how long before they limit the allowable time spent in Thailand for all visas, with the only option to stay long time being to extend the permission to stay at the immigration inside the country. If that's the attitude they now take, I reckon not long.

Have to say, it would sort of make sense, but they'll have to revise the current rules for extending the permission to stay (The police order 777/2551) or the markets that rely on those long-time tourists (condos for instance) will quickly die off.

Let's see if the trend will extend to TR visas next. As in no back-to-back TRs with a max of 180d/y limits, for example.

[Tomtomtom69]

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

I have a hard time to understand it. Before I settled down here, I always made longer holidays and spent a fortune, supporting bar girls, their families and was even so stupid to buy gold for quite a few of them.

I'd met a few guys who bought their visas and work permits somewhere in this country, had a job for many years and never a problem.

I'd bet my pink elephant that this business, selling fake visas will be "the hit". Or many people will just overstay. I also find it hard to believe that they first changed the 15 day visa rule to 30 again for G 8 countries.

Please forgive them, as they don't know what they do. Do they blame foreigners now for their not functioning system?

Believe it or not, somewhere in Bangkok (I don't want to tell where ..) there is a "hotel" called OVERSTAY which accepts all foreigners with expired visas. Everybody knows that, including the cops of this TAMBON who ,from time to time, go to pick up their monthly fees.

I swear the place name is OVERSTAY , blatantly in front of our eyes.

I've heard of the place (I think it's in Thonburi and is a cheap backpacker dump - no need to "hide it" any idiot can find it on Agoda), but as it stands, very few hotels check foreigner's permitted to stay dates to begin with, so your point is moot. For me, I only use my Thai driver's licence for hotel check-in in Thailand and haven't used my passport in years. Even if I did, and from observing my friends passports being handed over, hotels almost always only make a photocopy of the passport front page. Hence there would be no way of knowing if they are on overstay or not. Also, it is not a hotel clerk's duty to play immigration cop. That duty should be reserved for the people who are employed to carry out that task and those people are known as immigration officers.

[Soutpeel]

Let's see if the trend will extend to TR visas next. As in no back-to-back TRs with a max of 180d/y limits, for example.

would be nothing new, not so many years ago they had exactly that...allowed so many days in country per year and not allowed back in,

some countries already have exactly this in place...you can do what you want, come and go as you please, but your only allowed 180 days per year in country once hitting the 180 days...bye bye till next year.

[Tomtomtom69]

I had to re-read the OP:

The national commander of Thai Immigration, Lt Gen Phanu Kerdlaphon

“Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist."

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

The writing on the wall .. how long before they limit the allowable time spent in Thailand for all visas, with the only option to stay long time being to extend the permission to stay at the immigration inside the country. If that's the attitude they now take, I reckon not long.

Have to say, it would sort of make sense, but they'll have to revise the current rules for extending the permission to stay (The police order 777/2551) or the markets that rely on those long-time tourists (condos for instance) will quickly die off.

Let's see if the trend will extend to TR visas next. As in no back-to-back TRs with a max of 180d/y limits, for example.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Your last statement could become a reality one day, but not yet for sure. The biggest problem has been the visa-less border runners. Once they get cleaned up then there won't be a big problem anymore.

For example, while I haven't got any numbers here but in Vietnam, most nationalities need a visa to enter. However, 3 month multiple entry visas can easily be sourced without any documents as can 6-month ones occasionally, depending on the consulate or visa agency you use. After this time, an in-country extension is possible and sources tell me no visa runs would be necessary for at least 9 months, perhaps longer. As soon as you get a new visa you can continue this routine and it seems to be quite acceptable. Indeed Vietnam has fewer problems with foreign criminals using it as a base than Thailand does. For one, you can't just show up without making some arrangements for your visa first, though regular travelers will know that you can get a pre-arranged visa on arrival by applying just a couple of hours before departure (but paying extra for the privilege) if it's absolutely necessary, assuming you haven't had the opportunity to apply prior to that. Foreign criminals who have used Thailand as a de-facto residence often wouldn't have to worry about that at all, as visa free entry is allowed to about 41 nationals and visas on arrival to about 15 more. However, the new regulations (or enforcement of existing regulations depending on how you want to look at it) will likely have an impact. Of course it's not just visa regulations that play a part here, but they do go a long way.

[Tony125]

LIVINLOS

What is said now, potentially badly reported or translated, or simply one officers interpretation.. is to early to see what the true rules will be.

However they appear to be saying, that after Aug 12, they will only allow one visa exempt entry without checking, and any further use of a visa exempt entry will require a credible tourist plan, probably hotel bookings, flights out, etc etc. This will be officer discretion and not guaranteed.

Thats pretty much the only way the quotes from the opening post can be understood.

*** The problem is rules don't state how long you have to be out before can return. If I have a friend from USA comes over for 30 days on visa on arrival then goes home to USA and comes back 3 months later is he barred because he already used visa exempt entry? And since 3 of us live here (retired) and our friends (Tourists) from USA come over they stay with us don't need to rent hotel so what do they do make up hotel they are staying at? They won't have reservations but they are tourists and staying with USA or Thai friends who already live here. These "rules" have too many holes in them and are not easily understood by officials or us.

[neverdie]

For those of us that take time to stay legally by applying for work permits and correct extensions, paying taxes, social security its only right that these criminals should be excluded from entering back into Thailand. Once this is underway I wouldnt be suprised if ED visas will come under scrutiny as this is another area that is being massively abused by illegal workers. For the genuine under 50s not married that wish to stay here without working and can support themselves immigration should introduce an appropriate visa they could apply for to stay legally.

Actually that really makes sense for the under 50 crowd that are retired. I was contacted by one of these who is trying to pick my brains over this. I'm not really up to date about visas and it's interesting to read how much dust this has kicked up.

I know of a few and I am sure there's many more under 50ies that could happily meet a requirement for 800k in the bank (or more) just the same as the over 50 crowd. What has age got to do with retirement anyhow? For example; Military personnel can go out on 20,25,30 year pensions and if they've been smart in their life with money, this would hardly be a challenge. This is only one example.

Anyhow, it's always the a.holes that spoil it for the rest and there's no shortage of farang a.holes in Thailand.

The proper way to look at the visa situation would be to overall the entire system, not just one section of it.

[Choonpon]

Someone with bad intention planning to do bad in Thailand or anywhere, do not need 30 days. With well planning, even less than a day is sufficient. How are the authorities going to add in the blacklist efficiently?

On the other hand, wanting to stay in Thailand for longer days doesn't necessary mean the person has bad intention.

[Tomtomtom69]

LIVINLOS

What is said now, potentially badly reported or translated, or simply one officers interpretation.. is to early to see what the true rules will be.

However they appear to be saying, that after Aug 12, they will only allow one visa exempt entry without checking, and any further use of a visa exempt entry will require a credible tourist plan, probably hotel bookings, flights out, etc etc. This will be officer discretion and not guaranteed.

Thats pretty much the only way the quotes from the opening post can be understood.

*** The problem is rules don't state how long you have to be out before can return. If I have a friend from USA comes over for 30 days on visa on arrival then goes home to USA and comes back 3 months later is he barred because he already used visa exempt entry? And since 3 of us live here (retired) and our friends (Tourists) from USA come over they stay with us don't need to rent hotel so what do they do make up hotel they are staying at? They won't have reservations but they are tourists and staying with USA or Thai friends who already live here. These "rules" have too many holes in them and are not easily understood by officials or us.

I think a lot of the posters here are panicking and overreacting thinking that they won't be allowed to enter Thailand visa-free more than once, even if they just come for just a few days, which I think will NOT be how the rules will be implemented.

I have seen and read the small inset in Thai but it doesn't give any more details other than specifying that the new rules will attempt to curb visa runners and that they will target certain nationalities (such as Koreans) and according to other reports, Russians, Laotians (not Lao citizens that live in Thailand on guest worker visas, study visas or other visas, but those that come on visa exempt entries and only head back to Laos or Cambodia to stamp in/out and come back to Thailand) and Vietnamese. Brazilians also have border crossing restrictions as do Filipinos. Other foreigners will be targeted too, but there are some target nationalities that will face greater scrutiny, especially these ones as I have pointed out.

If someone has access to any other source (in Thai) please post it here and I'll do an accurate translation. I'm fluent in Thai and will have no problems providing an unambiguous translation. However, it could be that the source won't have many details in it, just like the memo I've seen on the immigration website and therefore will be left open to interpretation.

My understanding is that your friend from the USA won't have any problems at all. He should be prepared to have access to sufficient funds and a place to stay. It doesn't need to be a hotel - perhaps send him a picture of your apartment or your friends apartments. And a return/onward ticket will help too. If he is friendly and has just a few of these documents what conceivable problem do you think he will have? I doubt any. Since he is not doing back-to-back runs, he needn't worry.

Similarly, someone who travels extensively in the region but enters Thailand numerous times (albeit perhaps only for a day or a few days at a time) shouldn't have a problem if he/she spends much more time away from Thailand than inside Thailand. In any case, an itinerary, hotel or apartment bookings (if you have them handy), access to sufficient funds and an onward/return ticket should do plenty to convince officers. Someone who spends 2/3 of his time in Thailand, even with extensive travel in the region might however be better off securing a non-imm B multiple entry visa or similar. It all depends on how much time is being spent in Thailand, not whether you have 12 stamps for 2-3 days each in the last 3 months but more like whether you have spent 25-30 days in country 3-4 times in a row with only a small gap of time spent out of country.

I realize that neither I nor anyone else have the definitive answers, but I highly doubt that Thailand is going to go from a country that let's anyone in, again and again to one which bars everyone except for first time visitors or those that haven't been here for 10 years. If that were the case, mass tourism in Thailand would grind to a halt. And in a country that is constantly going on and on about the importance of tourism, how to increase tourist numbers, tourist number projections etc. to the point of really becoming annoying, do you really think that Thailand is going to turn itself into the next Bhutan?

[Cnxforever]

Personally im an offshore worker I work 28days on/off rotation. On my off time I live with my gf & child(Thai) in a rented property. I have always been coming in on the 30 non visa entry. As I don't see what I do as a "visa run" because im out of the country every 2nd month. I'm wondering how this will effect me & the many more like me who have been doing this for years... as i dont work in the country ok i dont pay tax but I spend a considerable amount of money in the country(again like many in my situation) thus building the economy. Will I need to get a visa & if so what kind of visa does some1 get in my current situation?? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks

I am also in the same boat and would be interested to know the outcome. I fly back tomorrow and hoping they let me in

Will look into getting the family visa this time around too.

Its actually quite worrying the thought of getting turned away, im not back for another 3 weeks & your probably the same with ticketing as my company will get me a 1 way & i get my return the week before i fly back to the ship. This will probably be my 1st problem on re entry... What is the best option for a visa? is getting married an option to fast track a visa? its not ideal & wouldnt be my 1st choice... how does the family visa work? do i need to be marriede for this? Thanks for any advice.

Same situation here - the problem now for us is that even if we might get the chance to make a visa before arriving here which we usually don't have - you would have to be very lucky to call a port which has a Thai consulate and arranges a visa for you within an hour or two!

With the strict rules now the airline might refuse to take us because we have no return ticket since we get our flight details out of Thailand a week or two before our next assignment.

The only way around this is to buy a "dummy" ticket out of the country within the 30 days of the visa exempt stamp.

Or if you stay longer book a return Flight to either Penang or KL - stay a day or two there and return but of course this option is now in question because you might be denied entry when you return and in addition might be asked again for a ticket leaving the country!

If your flight details have not arrived yet you will be forced to buy another ticket out of the country!

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

[Soutpeel]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Your last statement could become a reality one day

It was a reality for while in Thailand, not so many years ago, and as like most things in Thailand, do something for a while and change their minds again

[vadimbz]

Let's assume that someone has a double entry tourist visa. After 90 days they exit Thailand at nearest checkpoint, turn around and go back for another 90 days. Wouldn't it technically qualify as out-in? How about spending 30 days in the kingdom on stamp, then going OUT to Lao for said tourist visa, and getting back IN when it's done? Looks like an out-in to me, and immigration guy who had a rough day.

If it's only about visa-free stamp, why everyone is bitching on "visa runners"?

[ubonjoe]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Your last statement could become a reality one day

It was a reality for while in Thailand, not so many years ago, and as like most things in Thailand, do something for a while and change their minds again

That was for visa exempt entries. It was the 90 days in 6 months rule. The post he was responding to was saying they could do it for tourist visas.

[Soutpeel]

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

In all honesty, doing this is a very bad idea and may actually create issues for you, letters of guarantee are used for people coming into a country to join a vessel/ business meetings etc. and immigration may get it in their head your coming to Thailand to "work" which will compound your problems, further the only real letter of guarantee worth anything in terms of Thai immigration, is one from a Thai based company (written in Thai) which states they will take responsibly for the person while in country while joining a vessel or attending a business meeting and if coming in on a visa wavier, they would be in their rights to say b*gger off and go and get a Non-imm B.

From one offshore guy to another, I would say to you don't even try this one on.

[LivinLOS]

I realize that neither I nor anyone else have the definitive answers, but I highly doubt that Thailand is going to go from a country that let's anyone in, again and again to one which bars everyone except for first time visitors or those that haven't been here for 10 years. If that were the case, mass tourism in Thailand would grind to a halt. And in a country that is constantly going on and on about the importance of tourism, how to increase tourist numbers, tourist number projections etc. to the point of really becoming annoying, do you really think that Thailand is going to turn itself into the next Bhutan?

Your speaking logically.

But in implementing this they are putting the discretion in the hands of the officer.. anyone who has had any frequent dealings with Thailands border control officers knows logic and consistency isnt the strong suit of these guys. Face, power and the desire to show it is very often the order of the day. If even one in a 100 of these interactions goes badly thats 1000s of people daily.

If this was a system, with guidelines, we can all stick to them.. But relying on consistency in Thai border guards is madness.

[Tomtomtom69]

Let's assume that someone has a double entry tourist visa. After 90 days they exit Thailand at nearest checkpoint, turn around and go back for another 90 days. Wouldn't it technically qualify as out-in? How about spending 30 days in the kingdom on stamp, then going OUT to Lao for said tourist visa, and getting back IN when it's done? Looks like an out-in to me, and immigration guy who had a rough day.

If it's only about visa-free stamp, why everyone is bitching on "visa runners"?

No. It has been reported that this crackdown is for those living in Thailand on visa exempt entries. Why would they "crackdown" on using a legitimate double entry tourist visa? Because of a law in the immigration code that states that tourists can't spend more than 90 days in Thailand at a time, and indeed no visa as such is issued for more than 90 days at a time (only extensions of stay are), you need to do a visa run to activate the next entry.

Similarly for the visa exempt to tourist visa case. It could be that your job just finished, so you quickly go out, come back in once on a visa exempt entry then exit again for a tourist visa to tie you over in the meantime. That's what many people do and under the new rules would not a problem either.

If they were not going to allow the use of a double entry anymore then clearly they would also need to stop issuing such visas. Logically a consulate can't issue something that legally can't be used anymore.