Thai Immigration: Border insecurity mounts as tourist visa abuse is targeted

[John1thru10]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

No no - I want to hear about how I make 'everyone's life more diificult'. Please, I want to understand that one. You wrote it, let's hear your explanation.

[John1thru10]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

No no - I want to hear about how I make 'everyone's life more diificult'. Please, I want to understand that one. You wrote it, let's hear your explanation.

[ukrules]

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

You seem to be missing the bigger picture here.

This is going to happen to everyone who enters Thailand more than once per year when the rule actually comes into force.

[stevenl]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

No no - I want to hear about how I make 'everyone's life more diificult'. Please, I want to understand that one. You wrote it, let's hear your explanation.

Yes, CM wrote that. Please read the quote carefully, and if you still think it applies to tourists follow a reading course. Or are you an illegal?

[stevenl]

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

You seem to be missing the bigger picture here.

This is going to happen to everyone who enters Thailand more than once per year when the rule actually comes into force.

No, that is just what people in panicking mode think.

[Soutpeel]

Also I would not be surprised if it affects people who don't have work permits but travel on multiple entry business visas but that remains to be seen - this will also affect a lot of people.

If they see that you're living here then I expect people to be denied entry unless they have work permits / marriage visas.

Funny you mention this, I heard through the grapevine about 2 years ago, that if someone was coming to visit a Thai business e.g. a suppler or customer from out of the country, they would in fact need a work permit and in fact some of the MNC's already require people from out of country visiting their offices in Thailand for what ever reason actually apply for temporary work permits (14 day) for the visitor's and of course they need to be on a B visa as well.

So in practical terms, if your coming to Thailand on legitimate business trips, wouldn't really be that hard, as there is the temporary WP system, which is only a letter from Immigration/DOL and typically issued within 24 hours of application.

[jamhar]

" Without illegal foreigners, Thailand would still be a rice patty."

...

...

...

Maybe they should encourage MORE illegal forigners!?!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

What's next? ED visas? Most probably.

That was the main point that I took away from the OP mess of an article. Dunno if it's a mess because of the writers, or just that the Immigration folks can't seem to say the same thing two times without changing their story with each telling.

But the point I took away from the OP is that they DO indeed seem to now be talking about targeting same location exit-reentry tourist visa holders -- not just the visa exempt folks as Immigration had originally claimed in the earlier news reports.

It's right there in the first sentence:

The chief of the Immigration Bureau said abuse of tourist visas by South Koreans, Russians and Vietnamese working illegally in Thailand was the main motivation for cracking down on cross-border visa runs.

And then:

“Since many tourists come to Thailand on a tourist visa and start to work illegally, we’ve decided that it’s time we became stricter in enforcing the law than we have been,” he said.

And then:

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism. He also added that it did not matter what country the visitor came from.

This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country. They could also be asked to provide evidence of financial support, which is typically 20,000 baht.

But the article is also confusing, because it appears to, at times, be mixing up the difference between visa-exempt entries by tourists and tourist visas.

Of course, it's equally confusing when the commanding general claims the crackdown won't start until Aug. 12, but then his subordinate in the very next paragraph says Mukdahan has been enforcing the new policy for the past two weeks... Geez!!!

Edited May 18, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ukrules]

Also I would not be surprised if it affects people who don't have work permits but travel on multiple entry business visas but that remains to be seen - this will also affect a lot of people.

If they see that you're living here then I expect people to be denied entry unless they have work permits / marriage visas.

Funny you mention this, I heard through the grapevine about 2 years ago, that if someone was coming to visit a Thai business e.g. a suppler or customer from out of the country, they would in fact need a work permit and in fact some of the MNC's already require people from out of country visiting their offices in Thailand for what ever reason actually apply for temporary work permits (14 day) for the visitor's and of course they need to be on a B visa as well.

So in practical terms, if your coming to Thailand on legitimate business trips, wouldn't really be that hard, as there is the temporary WP system, which is only a letter from Immigration/DOL and typically issued within 24 hours of application.

There's a huge amount of people running businesses in Thailand who come on the Business visa. They mostly don't have a work permit from what I understand and employ others to run their businesses but they clearly live in Thailand for most of the year. That's not what the Business visa is meant for.

From what I've read all of these people are going to be included in this, it doesn't matter what visa you're using.

The Business O visa is meant to be used for doing a few days of business every now and again and it's being widely used to stay in Thailand by people who do a visa run every three months to a neighbouring country.

The guys I know who use this method travel to Europe once per year and renew it. There are companies of lawyers offering sponsorship to get this yearly 'O' visa.

I believe those days are gone.

This change if implemented as described will prevent anyone from living here unless they are on a retirement visa, have a work permit or permission to live here due to having dependents like a wife / children - this guy in charge of immigration is coming for everyone living here no matter what visa is being used - that's exactly what he said.

Edit : Applying the Thai immigration rules to the letter of the law will affect a huge amount of people on all sorts of visas, there's a storm coming.

Edited May 18, 2014 by ukrules

[chiang mai]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

1) I've never worked in Thailand, ever, but have entered Thailand many times - being outside of Asia entirely (to work in Europe) at least 4-7 months out of each year. But was given an extremely hard time entering on May 8 thru Sawanabhumi, after being in Europe for 7 months. Explain to me how I had 'played the system' or 'exploited loop holes' after being away for 7 months.

2) Explain to me how I have made your life more difficult.

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

No no - I want to hear about how I make 'everyone's life more diificult'. Please, I want to understand that one. You wrote it, let's hear your explanation.

Yes yes! You didn't state that you broke Immigration/visa law and you didn't state you were accused of such but you appear very upset as a result, why is that? From what you've written you just appear to have been heavily queried or is there another aspect that is not disclosed? If the first part of all that is true, you certainly did not make my life or that of my counterparts any more difficult, my comments were geared towards those who abused the visa system, not those who were subject to questioning by Immigration on arrival, clear?

[Soutpeel]

" Without illegal foreigners, Thailand would still be a rice patty."

...

...

...

Maybe they should encourage MORE illegal forigners!?!

The funny thing about "happysanook's" comment, one suspects the old colonials in Africa and Indian used to say the same thing....

If it wasn't for us whites, the natives would still be swinging in the trees, walking around naked and scratching their bottoms in public, just not cricket old chap"

So I suppose the response to his comment would be....How very colonial of you dear boy...

[MacWalen]

Many people say it will blow over and in a few months time all will be like in the old days. No need to panic. Didn't realize so many people were doing visa runs. I always thought they were mainly genuine tourists.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 18, 2014 by MacWalen

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I know 3 thai women that went to S Korea recently on the 90 day waiver and got sent back to Thailand as they had no proof of what they were doing in

the country

I've gotten the impression over time that there's a pretty good sized business of sending Thai young women to South Korea to work as massage (or whatever) ladies. I don't mean/am not talking forced human trafficking in my comments.

I mean business people from South Korea who see an opportunity to import cheaper labor from Thailand and perhaps for jobs that fewer South Korean women are willing to do themselves these days. And Thai young women who volunteer or are recruited and are attracted by the promised opportunity to earn substantially more than they'd likely be earning doing the same work here.

I think the South Korean Immigration authorities have seen enough of that, and those kinds of situations are probably accounting for a lot of the Thai deportations from South Korea that were referenced in the OP. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Thai males doing construction work in South Korea isn't also part of the picture.

[chiang mai]

"I always thought they were mainly genuine tourists", of course, there can be no question!

[nithisa78]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

In general they are not taking away jobs from Thais especially if they created the work themselves. Think off all those people operating online businesses. The big problem for them is not paying taxes but the idiot 4 Thais to every foreigner in your own company.

Ah Thais are xenophobic they wont learn.

Spoken like true idiot.

[Timwin]

Cambodia has many kinds of business visas, you can be one man band or setup a big company with hundreds of workers and everything in-between. Yearly about 1500 new foreign owned companies are established there. Thai officials should learn from them.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Timwin

[Soutpeel]

There's a huge amount of people running businesses in Thailand who come on the Business visa. They mostly don't have a work permit from what I understand and employ others to run their businesses but they clearly live in Thailand for most of the year. That's not what the Business visa is meant for.

From what I've read all of these people are going to be included in this, it doesn't matter what visa you're using.

The Business O visa is meant to be used for doing a few days of business every now and again and it's being widely used to stay in Thailand by people who do a visa run every three months to a neighbouring country.

The guys I know who use this method travel to Europe once per year and renew it. There are companies of lawyers offering sponsorship to get this yearly 'O' visa.

I believe those days are gone.

This change if implemented as described will prevent anyone from living here unless they are on a retirement visa, have a work permit or permission to live here due to having dependents like a wife / children - this guy in charge of immigration is coming for everyone living here no matter what visa is being used - that's exactly what he said.

Edit : Applying the Thai immigration rules to the letter of the law will affect a huge amount of people on all sorts of visas, there's a storm coming.

I would guess there are,

For me the, reading though all this, what they are saying is, and trying not to state the obvious

You had better be on the correct paper work appropriate for the reason you say you are coming into Thailand.

You can kinda see their point...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

People living in Thailand on visa exempt entries should be worried now, those living here on tourist visa could get into problems later.

Those problems are starting now. After August 12th this will affect anyone travelling to Thailand on multiple tourist visa entries.

Also I would not be surprised if it affects people who don't have work permits but travel on multiple entry business visas but that remains to be seen - this will also affect a lot of people.

Earlier, there were a lot of folks here asking HOW LONG between different visa exempt out/in entries would be acceptable to Immigration. But based on the OP report here, it doesn't sound like Immigration is focusing so much on the duration of the stay outside Thailand.

Instead, the article suggests they'll be focusing on a tourist (whether visa-exempt or tourist visa holding) exiting and re-entering Thailand from the SAME border point, at least in terms of land border crossings.

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism.

Of course, that's going to get really problematic if they actually tried to start enforcing that premise at Suvarnabhumi as the MAIN international airport transit point for all international visitors to Thailand.

Are they really going to start grilling someone on a legitimate tourist visa because they flew out of Thailand via Suvarnabhumi and then later returned from a foreign country thru the same airport???? That would be CRAZY!!!!

[Soutpeel]

Cambodia has many kinds of business visas, you can be one man band or setup a big company with hundreds of workers and everything in-between. Yearly about 1500 new foreign owned companies are established there. Thai officials should learn from them.

And one suspects as Cambodia starts developing as country, if it does, they will start doing the same as Thailand.

One suspects Cambodia is in the place now Thailand was 20-30 years ago

Rules typically become more restrictive the more a country develops, so what Cambodia is currently doing today has absolutely no relevance to what is happening in Thailand today, they are at different places in their development as a country.

Australia is a good example of this, not so many moons years ago, if you could scratch together GDP 10 for your passage, Aussie would take you in, no questions asked, and now try an rock up in Aussie and stay their long term without jumping through hoops/rules

[John1thru10]

People living in Thailand on visa exempt entries should be worried now, those living here on tourist visa could get into problems later.

Those problems are starting now. After August 12th this will affect anyone travelling to Thailand on multiple tourist visa entries.

Also I would not be surprised if it affects people who don't have work permits but travel on multiple entry business visas but that remains to be seen - this will also affect a lot of people.

Earlier, there were a lot of folks here asking HOW LONG between different visa exempt out/in entries would be acceptable to Immigration. But based on the OP report here, it doesn't sound like Immigration is focusing so much on the duration of the stay outside Thailand.

Instead, the article suggests they'll be focusing on a tourist (whether visa-exempt or tourist visa holding) exiting and re-entering Thailand from the SAME border point, at least in terms of land border crossings.

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism.

Of course, that's going to get really problematic if they actually tried to start enforcing that premise at Suvarnabhumi as the MAIN international airport transit point for all international visitors to Thailand.

Are they really going to start grilling someone on a legitimate tourist visa because they flew out of Thailand via Suvarnabhumi and then later returned from a foreign country thru the same airport???? That would be CRAZY!!!!

It would be crazy, unless what this official really means is, 'I don't want white people staying here anymore, unless they're incredibly wealthy.', which would be more problematic to actually say publicly.

[Mister Fixit]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

What's next? ED visas? Most probably.

In my view, many ED visas are just a scam to stay longer.

People use up all their back to backs, have too many double-entry tourist visas and are too old to retire, don't want to marry, (and probably won't have the 40 grand anyway) so the last resort is the dear old ED visa.

Most schools offer a visa and 180 hours of tuition in Thai which is less than 4 hours a week, barely enough to get a decent taste, but enough for a start in the language.

For proper students of Buddhism, who want to study in a temple for a year, fine. For those who want to study muay Thai in a registered school, fine.

But in my view, they are a last resort visa for the impecunious and back-packer level 'teachers'.

[Phuketboy]

At the end of the day a tourist visa is for tourists, if you are continually doing visa runs just to stay here or working here, you are not a real tourist are you? I say good on them for cracking down on this. Get the proper visa for your intension and purpose.

[jacko45k]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

Easy enough to get them to take the jobs, but getting them to do the work is perhaps more difficult.

Perhaps immigration police should simply 'raid' a few restaurants and check up on the staff.

[Phuketboy]

This business owner has been given the wrong information. “After working here for a while, I can now afford to pay the two million baht to have my business registered and apply for a proper work permit,” she said. You don't need to pay 2 million baht, you have to show a 2 million baht investment which can include the key money paid, cost of furnishings, setup costs etc etc.

[John1thru10]

Immigration in most countries sometimes give passengers a "hard time" periodically, their job is to quiz and assess. You got in didn't you, stop complaining, you're not a victim, you're just a passenger who was quizzed, we all have been at one time or another.

No no - I want to hear about how I make 'everyone's life more diificult'. Please, I want to understand that one. You wrote it, let's hear your explanation.

Yes yes! You didn't state that you broke Immigration/visa law and you didn't state you were accused of such but you appear very upset as a result, why is that? From what you've written you just appear to have been heavily queried or is there another aspect that is not disclosed? If the first part of all that is true, you certainly did not make my life or that of my counterparts any more difficult, my comments were geared towards those who abused the visa system, not those who were subject to questioning by Immigration on arrival, clear?

Oh, so now being completely outside of asia for 7 months, and then entering via air to Sawanabhumi is breaking immigration/visa law? That's interesting, because that's not what the law says at all.

[chiang mai]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

What's next? ED visas? Most probably.

In my view, many ED visas are just a scam to stay longer.

People use up all their back to backs, have too many double-entry tourist visas and are too old to retire, don't want to marry, (and probably won't have the 40 grand anyway) so the last resort is the dear old ED visa.

Most schools offer a visa and 180 hours of tuition in Thai which is less than 4 hours a week, barely enough to get a decent taste, but enough for a start in the language.

For proper students of Buddhism, who want to study in a temple for a year, fine. For those who want to study muay Thai in a registered school, fine.

But in my view, they are a last resort visa for the impecunious and back-packer level 'teachers'.

You think!

[Soutpeel]

In my view, many ED visas are just a scam to stay longer.

Scam or loophole ?......if you complying with the terms of that visa and doing what your suppose to be doing..eg Not working

Your not doing anything illegal, they have set the rules, your following them

[ukrules]

It would be crazy, unless what this official really means is, 'I don't want white people staying here anymore, unless they're incredibly wealthy.', which would be more problematic to actually say publicly.

You can stay here as long as you want if you buy the 500,000 Baht Thailand Elite membership.

It comes with a 5 year multiple entry visa. Each time you enter you get a 1 year stamp. There's no limits on the number of entries within the 5 years.

All you need to do is 90 day reporting during this whole year.

It is a visa designed to allow people of any age who don't work to live in Thailand, all you need to do is pay the fee.

[chiang mai]

Operative word being "many".

[stevenl]

Those problems are starting now. After August 12th this will affect anyone travelling to Thailand on multiple tourist visa entries.

Also I would not be surprised if it affects people who don't have work permits but travel on multiple entry business visas but that remains to be seen - this will also affect a lot of people.

Earlier, there were a lot of folks here asking HOW LONG between different visa exempt out/in entries would be acceptable to Immigration. But based on the OP report here, it doesn't sound like Immigration is focusing so much on the duration of the stay outside Thailand.

Instead, the article suggests they'll be focusing on a tourist (whether visa-exempt or tourist visa holding) exiting and re-entering Thailand from the SAME border point, at least in terms of land border crossings.

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism.

Of course, that's going to get really problematic if they actually tried to start enforcing that premise at Suvarnabhumi as the MAIN international airport transit point for all international visitors to Thailand.

Are they really going to start grilling someone on a legitimate tourist visa because they flew out of Thailand via Suvarnabhumi and then later returned from a foreign country thru the same airport???? That would be CRAZY!!!!

It would be crazy, unless what this official really means is, 'I don't want white people staying here anymore, unless they're incredibly wealthy.', which would be more problematic to actually say publicly.

Your racism here is ludicrous, especially consideirng the main target of this enforcement.