Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Michael Hare]

35 minutes ago, Arkady said:

In the late 90s they still accepted self-certified documents for everything except company documents but, as I was the company signatory, I had to sign those too. Documents in English didn't have to be translated.  No need for home country police record and nothing from embassy.  Not knowing what was to come, I thought it was a huge burden.  I remember going into the office at the weekend to sign all the documents my secretary had prepared and it seemed like the pile was nearly a metre high.

 

Considering that Immigration seems to increase fees about once in a generation, now that it is 20 years since the last increase, there may well be another one around the corner. Not only the fees for all types of visas, including PR, went up the last time but the financial hurdles for retirement and retirement extensions got massive hikes too.  I seem to remember the retirement extension lump sum in the bank requirement, which is now THB 800,000 and 1.6 million for a couple was only about 200,000 for a single and a couple before the increase. A hike in retirement and marriage extension hurdles would cause a lot of grief and departures.  Another good reason to make the effort to get PR.

Agree with you there Arkady. Fees will go up soon. I lived in Thailand from 1974-1980. I got married in 1979 and my wife and I returned to NZ at the end of 1980. She automatically got PR by being married to me, a Kiwi. I think that there may have been a short interview at one point. After 14 years in NZ we decided to return to Ubon in 1994 with our 6 year son (he already had dual nationality). We weren't sure how long we would start. When it appeared that we would be here for years, I decided it would be best to get PR. I thought it would be like NZ, a simple straight forward process. I had no idea of the amount of paper work that would be involved. I just took it one step at a time and I got my PR. 

[Arkady]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Agree with you there Arkady. Fees will go up soon. I lived in Thailand from 1974-1980. I got married in 1979 and my wife and I returned to NZ at the end of 1980. She automatically got PR by being married to me, a Kiwi. I think that there may have been a short interview at one point. After 14 years in NZ we decided to return to Ubon in 1994 with our 6 year son (he already had dual nationality). We weren't sure how long we would start. When it appeared that we would be here for years, I decided it would be best to get PR. I thought it would be like NZ, a simple straight forward process. I had no idea of the amount of paper work that would be involved. I just took it one step at a time and I got my PR. 

Until 1981 foreign wives of Brits (but not husbands) could just take their marriage certificate to the embassy and get a British passport immediately. A friend did this for his Thai wife.  Now it is quite hard for Brits to take Thai wives to the UK even as tourists, let alone get them PR and citizenship but at least they are not deported to Rwanda.

 

When I arrived in Thailand in the late 80s the old hands liked to tell me I had missed the boat because it had been wonderful in the 60s and early 70s but had since gone down the drain.  I bet you were told that you should have got here in the 50s.

 

[Michael Hare]

18 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Until 1981 foreign wives of Brits (but not husbands) could just take their marriage certificate to the embassy and get a British passport immediately. A friend did this for his Thai wife.  Now it is quite hard for Brits to take Thai wives to the UK even as tourists, let alone get them PR and citizenship but at least they are not deported to Rwanda.

 

When I arrived in Thailand in the late 80s the old hands liked to tell me I had missed the boat because it had been wonderful in the 60s and early 70s but had since gone down the drain.  I bet you were told that you should have got here in the 50s.

 

No one told me anything. I think I am the only caucasian living in Ubon who has PR. All the other PR holders are older Vietnamese and Chinese. Perhaps there are a few Filipinos. 

 

[rimmae2]

For information departed SVB yesterday and autogates are not in operation for Thais and PR holders. I did not bother reregistering for what would have been the third time.

[onthemoon]

5 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

For information departed SVB yesterday and autogates are not in operation for Thais and PR holders. I did not bother reregistering for what would have been the third time.

Thanks for the info.

[beeper]

21 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

For information departed SVB yesterday and autogates are not in operation for Thais and PR holders. I did not bother reregistering for what would have been the third time.

At arrival there are automatic gates for Thai nationals. PR holders can go through the manned counters on the far right side in the section for Thai passports..So far no queues here.

 

on departure I have been going through the Priority Fast track close to TG business class check in counters showing my reentry permit stamp in the passport. Staff usually don’t know what it is but let me through. 
interested to hear other’s experiences…

 

[rimmae2]

2 hours ago, beeper said:

At arrival there are automatic gates for Thai nationals. PR holders can go through the manned counters on the far right side in the section for Thai passports..So far no queues here.

 

on departure I have been going through the Priority Fast track close to TG business class check in counters showing my reentry permit stamp in the passport. Staff usually don’t know what it is but let me through. 
interested to hear other’s experiences…

 

Of course PRs are entitled to use the manned counters for Thai PP holders on departure and arrival. About 5% of the time on arrival I used these counters when autogate was problematic; always used autogate on departure when in use.

 

I have used the 'new' fast track twice on departure; once travelling in business class and once travelling in Thai Smile Plus. No questions asked by staff.  

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, rimmae2 said:

Of course PRs are entitled to use the manned counters for Thai PP holders on departure and arrival. About 5% of the time on arrival I used these counters when autogate was problematic; always used autogate on departure when in use.

 

I have used the 'new' fast track twice on departure; once travelling in business class and once travelling in Thai Smile Plus. No questions asked by staff.  

I've had Thai PR for 25 years. Perhaps the first time after I got my PR book I joined the foreigners line to depart Thailand.

 

A roving Immigration officer noticed my dark blue PR book and quickly/pleasantly approached me and took me to a nearby Thai passports line. In good English she said 'please always join one of the Thai passport lines .........'.

 

I've since always done that. A couple of times Thai people in the line have got my attention and pointed to the foreigners lined up. I showed my (closed) dark blue PR book, and they instantly withdrew.

 

Did they know what PR means? Very doubtful.  

[Naiyana]

Hello all, 

Yesterday I got the pink card - the completion of my PR application of 2020.

I’m wondering if replacing Passport numbers with my new Thai ID number in tax / social security is meaningful. If yes, what are the processes? Anything else to update?

Thank you.

 

[onthemoon]

14 hours ago, Naiyana said:

Hello all, 

Yesterday I got the pink card - the completion of my PR application of 2020.

I’m wondering if replacing Passport numbers with my new Thai ID number in tax / social security is meaningful. If yes, what are the processes? Anything else to update?

Thank you.

The advantage is that you have the same number everywhere and don't have to deal with different numbers.

 

For the tax ID, the company I worked for at the time just used the new number. When I asked, I was told that the tax office said that either number is fine, they are interlinked. I have been using the number of the pink ID every since.

For social security, you have to go to their office and fill in a form. I have the form but haven't changed my number yet. They said it takes about a month.

[Michael Hare]

On 7/2/2022 at 5:42 PM, Naiyana said:

Hello all, 

Yesterday I got the pink card - the completion of my PR application of 2020.

I’m wondering if replacing Passport numbers with my new Thai ID number in tax / social security is meaningful. If yes, what are the processes? Anything else to update?

Thank you.

 

Once I got my pink ID card about 12 years ago, I replaced the passport number on all my Bank accounts with the ID card number. Made sense, as the ID card number is for life, and the passport number, in my case, only lasts for 5 years. My ID card number (which is the same on my house registration and driver's licence) is used for tax purposes. I don't have social security.

[Dogmatix]

10 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Once I got my pink ID card about 12 years ago, I replaced the passport number on all my Bank accounts with the ID card number. Made sense, as the ID card number is for life, and the passport number, in my case, only lasts for 5 years. My ID card number (which is the same on my house registration and driver's licence) is used for tax purposes. I don't have social security.

Singapore gives its citizens the same passport number for life.  I don't why other country's can't do the same.

[Naiyana]

Another question- is it possible for the family of PR holders to apply for Non-O visa? 
I only found such info here, not sure if I can trust it.. Thai embassy in my country did not specify such thing. https://lima.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-o-family-member?page=5d846a0415e39c31dc006001&menu=5d846a0415e39c31dc006002

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, Naiyana said:

Another question- is it possible for the family of PR holders to apply for Non-O visa? 
I only found such info here, not sure if I can trust it.. Thai embassy in my country did not specify such thing. https://lima.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-o-family-member?page=5d846a0415e39c31dc006001&menu=5d846a0415e39c31dc006002

Number 3 on that page mentions permanent residency.

" (3) A person who provide or receive support from the person whose nationality is Thai or the alien who has been granted and has taken up permanent residence in Thailand as the parents, spouse or child under patronage and being a part of the household of the said person."

A non-o visa can also be applied or at immigration if they have a tourist visa or visa exempt entry. See: https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/8.A-PERSON-WHO-HAVING-RESIDENCY-IN-THAILAND-NON-O.pdf

[jombangkok]

Some more question. What is a reasonable agency fee? Got quoted 250k recently.

 

Another possibly odd question, is a lack of friends and family a big issue? Very close thai friends, 0 if I am completely honest. Save for my long term girlfriend. I have people I contact every now and then from work a few years ago, but in all honesty WFH have more or less killed the small social life I had, since 2020.

[beeper]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:44 AM, Michael Hare said:

Once I got my pink ID card about 12 years ago, I replaced the passport number on all my Bank accounts with the ID card number. Made sense, as the ID card number is for life, and the passport number, in my case, only lasts for 5 years. My ID card number (which is the same on my house registration and driver's licence) is used for tax purposes. I don't have social security.

Did you encounter any pushback , ignorance from the banks.?

for me k bank was utterly at a loss when I presented Pink ID. They insisted on passport as official document

UOB was the only bank that accepted PInk ID number a local as reference when I got a mortgage to buy a condo from them. 

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Some more question. What is a reasonable agency fee? Got quoted 250k recently.

 

Ridiculous.If you have the time do it yourself. If you don't or can't be bothered, get a trusted legal firm (not one which caters for gormless expatriates) and enlist your secretary to help with paperwork. Actually if you have a really good secretary she could probably handle it by herself.As to fee best to agree up front.I would say no more than Bt 50,000.

 

8 hours ago, jombangkok said:

Another possibly odd question, is a lack of friends and family a big issue? Very close thai friends, 0 if I am completely honest. Save for my long term girlfriend. I have people I contact every now and then from work a few years ago, but in all honesty WFH have more or less killed the small social life I had, since 2020.

It matters not a jot.They don't care whether you have Thai friends or not.It's just possible they might ask in the interview - just say you have friends in the neigbourhood and that you enjoy their company.

 

2 hours ago, beeper said:

Did you encounter any pushback , ignorance from the banks.?

for me k bank was utterly at a loss when I presented Pink ID. They insisted on passport as official document

UOB was the only bank that accepted PInk ID number a local as reference when I got a mortgage to buy a condo from them. 

The Pink ID card is not recognised or accepted everywhere but the situation is gradually improving.Practical advice if an important transaction required is to keep your passport in back pocket just in case.

[rimmae2]

2 hours ago, beeper said:

Did you encounter any pushback , ignorance from the banks.?

for me k bank was utterly at a loss when I presented Pink ID. They insisted on passport as official document

UOB was the only bank that accepted PInk ID number a local as reference when I got a mortgage to buy a condo from them. 

KBANK and BBL accepted Pink ID. SCB advised me not to change from PP as it would take time to change the APP. As I primarily use SCB for DD I took the advice of SCB and will reconsider when I obtain a new PP.

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, beeper said:

Did you encounter any pushback , ignorance from the banks.?

for me k bank was utterly at a loss when I presented Pink ID. They insisted on passport as official document

UOB was the only bank that accepted PInk ID number a local as reference when I got a mortgage to buy a condo from them. 

In my case, Bangkok Bank was happy to accept the pink ID. It was kind of easier for them than dealing with a passport with ever-changing numbers.

 

KBank was a bit confused but finally managed to use it in their system.

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

Ridiculous.If you have the time do it yourself. If you don't or can't be bothered, get a trusted legal firm (not one which caters for gormless expatriates) and enlist your secretary to help with paperwork. Actually if you have a really good secretary she could probably handle it by herself.As to fee best to agree up front.I would say no more than Bt 50,000.

@jombangkok In the past, the figure of 100,000 was floating around as lawyer's fee. I always joked that I would do it for that amount, as the lawyer can do exactly nothing. He'll get the list of documents required, and that list is available in English. You have to get him the documents (starting from birth certificate), and all he does is collect them and pass them on. As @jayboy says, a good secretary is an asset for this. I did mine all alone.

 

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

The Pink ID card is not recognised or accepted everywhere but the situation is gradually improving.Practical advice if an important transaction required is to keep your passport in back pocket just in case.

I never have my passport with me within Thailand, as a matter of principle. ????

[Michael Hare]

4 hours ago, beeper said:

Did you encounter any pushback , ignorance from the banks.?

for me k bank was utterly at a loss when I presented Pink ID. They insisted on passport as official document

UOB was the only bank that accepted PInk ID number a local as reference when I got a mortgage to buy a condo from them. 

I only use SCB at three branches here in Ubon Ratchathani. When I got my pink ID card, a teller at my main branch just got on the computer and changed my ID to the pink card at the other two branches. Works well. I had encountered a problem with my passport ID when I lost one of my ATM cards and went to get a new ATM after getting a lost card report from the police station. This particular bank account was opened over 20 years ago under an old passport. The bank did not accept my new passport as ID as the number was different. They wanted to see my old expired passport. I told them that was gone. Finally the teller called the manger over who knew me and he said the new passport was okay this time, but in the future whenever I had a new passport I should take it into the bank to show them so they could put it into their system. I am so pleased that the ID card can be used now. 

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

I never have my passport with me within Thailand, as a matter of principle. ????

And when the banker/official/policeman turns up his nose at your pink card, are they satisfied when you tell them you don't carry a passport as a matter of principle?

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

a passport with ever-changing numbers.

Every ten years in my case.Thus every ten years a couple of hours admin notifying banks, telephone/internet providers of new passport number.Not too much of a hassle.

[onthemoon]

31 minutes ago, jayboy said:

And when the banker/official/policeman turns up his nose at your pink card, are they satisfied when you tell them you don't carry a passport as a matter of principle?

Yes. I had the case that I suggested to an official that they call to the Khet and ask what this card is about. They did, and apologised.

I once had a banker who insisted that foreigners can only use passports. I closed that account.

[onthemoon]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Every ten years in my case.Thus every ten years a couple of hours admin notifying banks, telephone/internet providers of new passport number.Not too much of a hassle.

Well, every 2-3 years in my case (passports get full with stamps), and avoidable hassle. I just received a letter again with a very old (5 years?) passport number and that I should update my work permit. With ID card, I don't need a to update the work permit either; banks and credit card companies actually need that every year, but even the banks forget. Credit card companies, yearly contracts, you name it. I just don't have that hassle any more.

But then, people are different. If you prefer to have a complete list of where your passport number is used, and prefer to not go through the one-time action of using the ID number instead, that's up to you.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

Ridiculous.If you have the time do it yourself. If you don't or can't be bothered, get a trusted legal firm (not one which caters for gormless expatriates) and enlist your secretary to help with paperwork. Actually if you have a really good secretary she could probably handle it by herself.As to fee best to agree up front.I would say no more than Bt 50,000.

 

It matters not a jot.They don't care whether you have Thai friends or not.It's just possible they might ask in the interview - just say you have friends in the neigbourhood and that you enjoy their company.

 

The Pink ID card is not recognised or accepted everywhere but the situation is gradually improving.Practical advice if an important transaction required is to keep your passport in back pocket just in case.

Very true. Right now many organizations don't know what the pink card is and that includes many police but as jayboy said it's slowly getting to be known.

 

One confusing point is that it's the exact same card format used for itinerate labour workers from neighboring countries. A couple of years ago a farang buddy tried to use his pink card to check in at Chiang Mai airport for domestic flight.

 

The overzealous check-in lady noticed the wording on the back of the card re cannot travel more thn 40? Km away from place where the card was issued and she called the police.

 

Police arrived, no understanding whatever what the card was. Farang luckily has the mobile number of the CM Muang amphur office senior where the card was issued. The amphur senior explained to the police waiting at the airport and the airline check-in staff.

 

End result, airline refused to accept the card for check-in and demanded to see a passport. 

 

Things change slowly. 

 

As jayboy says many of these things are not difficult and can be done yourself with a little help from your office staff.

 

I'm aware of one business agency (since closed down) who offered help with Work Permits. They already had a small team of smart young motorcycle couriers doing a range of tasks. They brought these employees into the office and quickly trained them how to complete a WP application and where to find the required documents, how/where to lodge the application (Labour office at Din Daeng) etc.

 

When the agency got a call from a new client, for WP, they quickly despatched one of their trained couriers who went to the office where the farang was and within 30 minutes WP application all completed. Courier boy then went direct to the Labour office at Din Daeng. Courier called back a little later to confirm WP application accepted. 

 

Then courier boy made plan to meet the farang next morning early at Din Daeng, within an hour or so all fees paid by the farang to the Labour office and to the courier boy for the business agency (total 5,000Baht plus nice tip for the very pleasant and very capable courier boy). Farang walked away with new WP.

 

I used this service for 3 years until the business agency was taken over and then quickly collapsed because of very poor management practices of the new owner. 

 

My WP had been renewed for many years by using an outrageously expensive international law firm (their office in Bkk), I hadn't been  aware of their charges until by accident I saw their bill. 

 

I told our Admin. Manager to find a new lawyer or whatever to replace WPs and to do other legal items in the future. She claimed she couldn't find anybody.

 

Truth was she was too embarrassed (loss of face) to tell the original law firm we wouldn't be using their services any further. So I called the law firm myself, the over confident snr lawyer claimed:

 

- By Thai law WP applications and renewals have to be handled by a Thai registered law firm. NOT TRUE.

 

- By Thai law the negotiations with the Thai Labour office have to be conducted by a Thai registered law firm. NOT TRUE, in fact there is no negotiation whatever for WPs.

 

I challenged the over confident lawyer from the expensive law firm and she then claimed that they have to get a certificate from the home country gov't department where the passport was issued to prove it's a genuine passport and it's extremely expensive and requires snr. staff from the law firm to visit the Australian Embassy in Bkk for several meetings. NOT TRUE, there is no such requirement. 

 

Over confident lawyer from expensive law firm also claimed that they have to prepare all the documents then mail them to their Singapore regional office for sign off which incurs very large internal fees. I called their Singapore office and spoke to a snr partner, there was no such activity. 

 

When the business agency we used for several years closed down I called my personal Thai lawyer who had helped me previously to write my Thai Will, and asked if he could handle WP applications and renewals and several other legal items. He confirmed that he could and quoted some very reasonable fees (most items were 5,000Baht or less). He/his staff did all our legal work after that.

 

I ensured I didn't get personally entangled, I quickly appointed our accountant to handle all of these items into the future. 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by scorecard

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Very true. Right now many organizations don't know what the pink card is and that includes many police but as jayboy said it's slowly getting to be known.

 

One confusing point is that it's the exact same card format used for itinerate labour workers from neighboring countries. A couple of years ago a farang buddy tried to use his pink card to check in at Chiang Mai airport for domestic flight.

 

The overzealous check-in lady noticed the wording on the back of the card re cannot travel more thn 40? Km away from place where the card was issued and she called the police.

 

Police arrived, no understanding whatever what the card was. Farang luckily has the mobile number of the CM Muang amphur office senior where the card was issued. The amphur senior explained to the police waiting at the airport and the airline check-in staff.

 

End result, airline refused to accept the card for check-in and demanded to see a passport. 

 

Things change slowly. 

 

As jayboy says many of these things are not difficult and can be done yourself with a little help from your office staff.

 

I'm aware of one business agency (since closed down) who offered help with Work Permits. They already had a small team of smart young motorcycle couriers doing a range of tasks. They brought these employees into the office and quickly trained them how to complete a WP application and where to find the required documents, how/where to lodge the application (Labour office at Din Daeng) etc.

 

When the agency got a call from a new client, for WP, they quickly despatched one of their trained couriers who went to the office where the farang was and within 30 minutes WP application all completed. Courier boy then went direct to the Labour office at Din Daeng. Courier called back a little later to confirm WP application accepted. 

 

Then courier boy made plan to meet the farang next morning early at Din Daeng, within an hour or so all fees paid by the farang to the Labour office and to the courier boy for the business agency (total 5,000Baht plus nice tip for the very pleasant and very capable courier boy). Farang walked away with new WP.

 

I used this service for 3 years until the business agency was taken over and then quickly collapsed because of very poor management practices of the new owner. 

 

My WP had been renewed for many years by using an outrageously expensive international law firm (their office in Bkk), I hadn't been  aware of their charges until by accident I saw their bill. 

 

I told our Admin. Manager to find a new lawyer or whatever to replace WPs and to do other legal items in the future. She claimed she couldn't find anybody.

 

Truth was she was too embarrassed (loss of face) to tell the original law firm we wouldn't be using their services any further. So I called the law firm myself, the over confident snr lawyer claimed:

 

- By Thai law WP applications and renewals have to be handled by a Thai registered law firm. NOT TRUE.

 

- By Thai law the negotiations with the Thai Labour office have to be conducted by a Thai registered law firm. NOT TRUE, in fact there is no negotiation whatever for WPs.

 

I challenged the over confident lawyer from the expensive law firm and she then claimed that they have to get a certificate from the home country gov't department where the passport was issued to prove it's a genuine passport and it's extremely expensive and requires snr. staff from the law firm to visit the Australian Embassy in Bkk for several meetings. NOT TRUE, there is no such requirement. 

 

Over confident lawyer from expensive law firm also claimed that they have to prepare all the documents then mail them to their Singapore regional office for sign off which incurs very large internal fees. I called their Singapore office and spoke to a snr partner, there was no such activity. 

 

When the business agency we used for several years closed down I called my personal Thai lawyer who had helped me previously to write my Thai Will, and asked if he could handle WP applications and renewals and several other legal items. He confirmed that he could and quoted some very reasonable fees (most items were 5,000Baht or less). He/his staff did all our legal work after that.

 

I ensured I didn't get personally entangled, I quickly appointed our accountant to handle all of these items into the future. 

 

I had a problem at a domestic airport with my pink ID once (don't remember where that was), because the ticket is in English and the pink ID in Thai. They then asked for my driver's licence and all was fine.

I do agree that the pink ID should be bilingual, very much like the Thai citizen ID is bilingual.

I travel a lot and never bring my passport when travelling domestically. Some people told me that hotels require passports, but that is not true either. When they register you with your passport, they also need the number of the TM6 - which you do not exist. I had to explain to the manager once that they should try to key in just my Thai ID number and it worked, so all was fine.

[Michael Hare]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I had a problem at a domestic airport with my pink ID once (don't remember where that was), because the ticket is in English and the pink ID in Thai. They then asked for my driver's licence and all was fine.

I do agree that the pink ID should be bilingual, very much like the Thai citizen ID is bilingual.

I travel a lot and never bring my passport when travelling domestically. Some people told me that hotels require passports, but that is not true either. When they register you with your passport, they also need the number of the TM6 - which you do not exist. I had to explain to the manager once that they should try to key in just my Thai ID number and it worked, so all was fine.

I flew in May down to Krabi. Ubon to BKK on Thai Smile. No problem with the ID card. Bangkok to Krabi on Air Asia. They wouldn't accept the iD card. I had to show them my driver's licence. At the hotel the ID card was fine because it is in Thai with one's address clearly written on the front. On Friday I am flying up to Chiang Rai from Ubon. Ubon to Bangkok on Nok Air and Bangkok to Chiang Rai on Lion. I have never flown on Lion before. I have a feeling that they will not accept the ID card. Nok Air does. 

[Dogmatix]

It really sucks that they give PRs the pink card designed for stateless minorities who are not allowed outside their amphur with the warning on the back. It also sucks that they are not allowed outside their amphur, despite being born in Thailand and not entitled to any other nationality, not to mentioned lack of entitlement to education, healthcare etc.

[Bubbha]

On the back of the pink card are term and conditions for the user (photo attached of the back side of my pink card).

Under Number 3 it states that PRs are allowed to travel outside of the card issuing administrative area.

Not all pink cards include this language on the back. A friend who completed PR at the same time as I, did not have Number 3 on the back of his card. (He subsequently went and changed that.)

I use this card routinely for flights and hotels. I once was checking into a Thai Airways flight from Chiang Mai to Bangkok and the staff person asked for my letter of permission to travel. I told her I didn’t need one and referred her to the back of the card. Problem solved…