Australia launches anti-terror raids

[samran]

Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

Yeah! I would like to hear what the board's Muslims have to day about that.

But it'll just be the usual spin and deflection about having to respect their culture.

You must have hated it when a Muslim first moved into your street.

[halloween]

You don't seem to know much about Australia.

Australia is a country of migrants, we do it better than most, and for the most part, do it well.

Not so well in regard to illegal immigration. For too long those that have broken the laws are allowed to stay on temporary visas, and to use funds accumulated

(not necessarily "earned") to fund the illegal immigration of relatives and friends. Aiding and abetting the breaking of a country's laws should be treated seriously, leading to incarceration and deportation.

[H1w4yR1da]

Samran. Avoided the question I see. What a surprise!

Edited September 27, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[JockPieandBeans]

You don't seem to know much about Australia.

Australia is a country of migrants, we do it better than most, and for the most part, do it well.

Samran

Please do not make assumptions on what I do or do not know.

Strange is it not, that when I directed a question to you, you did not answer. And when I directed something at Tep you answered.

Of course, I know a few Australians, funny that none of them share your views.

Let me guess, they are all old and white?

That would depend on your definition of old. They would all be around the 50 mark. Although I fail to see the relevance.

They are not all based in Thailand, Some of them are people that I know through work.

As I do not know about Australia, perhaps you can enlighten me. Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

perhaps you would like to have a bash at answering the question ?

[samran]

You don't seem to know much about Australia.

Australia is a country of migrants, we do it better than most, and for the most part, do it well.

Samran

Please do not make assumptions on what I do or do not know.

Strange is it not, that when I directed a question to you, you did not answer. And when I directed something at Tep you answered.

Of course, I know a few Australians, funny that none of them share your views.

Let me guess, they are all old and white?

That would depend on your definition of old. They would all be around the 50 mark. Although I fail to see the relevance.

They are not all based in Thailand, Some of them are people that I know through work.

As I do not know about Australia, perhaps you can enlighten me. Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

perhaps you would like to have a bash at answering the question ?

See my post earlier, pressed post earlier.

We've got a Muslim MP, Ed Husic. Listen to him speak. Sounds pretty Aussie to me.

My afl team has a bloke called Bashar Huli on the side, one of the best players in a very unique Australian sport.

Muslim kids wanted to be surf life savers, so they came up with the burkini so they could go do what they wanted.

It's the typical migrant experience. The old white establishment bash the new kids on he block. In Australia it was the Irish, then the Chinese, the the Jews, Greeks and Italians post war. Then came the Vietnamese refguees, one of these boat arrivals has just been made govenor of South Australia.

Now it is the afghans and middle easterner turn again, I say again as we've already has one bloke, Steve Bracks who was one of the longest serving premiers of Victoria, defended from Lebanese stock. Conservative indepenendt federal MP bob katter the descendent of afghan camel traders.

And out current conservative federal treasurer? Son of a Palastinian migrant.

[H1w4yR1da]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

[H1w4yR1da]

Bigots the lot of you.

Let me guess, they are all old and white?

Er.. what was that you were saying about bigots?. Edited September 27, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[JockPieandBeans]

See my post earlier, pressed post earlier.

We've got a Muslim MP, Ed Husic. Listen to him speak. Sounds pretty Aussie to me.

My afl team has a bloke called Bashar Huli on the side, one of the best players in a very unique Australian sport.

Muslim kids wanted to be surf life savers, so they came up with the burkini so they could go do what they wanted.

It's the typical migrant experience. The old white establishment bash the new kids on he block. In Australia it was the Irish, then the Chinese, the the Jews, Greeks and Italians post war. Then came the Vietnamese refguees, one of these boat arrivals has just been made govenor of South Australia.

Now it is the afghans and middle easterner turn again, I say again as we've already has one bloke, Steve Bracks who was one of the longest serving premiers of Victoria, defended from Lebanese stock. Conservative indepenendt federal MP bob katter the descendent of afghan camel traders.

And out current conservative federal treasurer? Son of a Palastinian migrant.

Thank you for the brief History lesson, not what I wanted or asked for.

This is the question that I asked and you avoided.

As I do not know about Australia, perhaps you can enlighten me. Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

Now perhaps you could answer.

1 more point that I would ask you to consider.

In the world of " Multiculturism " that we, as Westerners are asked to embrace. I do not need to provide a list of Western Cultures that are embracing " Multiculturism "

Perhaps you could provide a list of Muslim countries that actively embrace, promote and nurture " Multiculturism "

[samran]

See my post earlier, pressed post earlier.

We've got a Muslim MP, Ed Husic. Listen to him speak. Sounds pretty Aussie to me.

My afl team has a bloke called Bashar Huli on the side, one of the best players in a very unique Australian sport.

Muslim kids wanted to be surf life savers, so they came up with the burkini so they could go do what they wanted.

It's the typical migrant experience. The old white establishment bash the new kids on he block. In Australia it was the Irish, then the Chinese, the the Jews, Greeks and Italians post war. Then came the Vietnamese refguees, one of these boat arrivals has just been made govenor of South Australia.

Now it is the afghans and middle easterner turn again, I say again as we've already has one bloke, Steve Bracks who was one of the longest serving premiers of Victoria, defended from Lebanese stock. Conservative indepenendt federal MP bob katter the descendent of afghan camel traders.

And out current conservative federal treasurer? Son of a Palastinian migrant.

Thank you for the brief History lesson, not what I wanted or asked for.

This is the question that I asked and you avoided.

As I do not know about Australia, perhaps you can enlighten me. Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

Now perhaps you could answer.

1 more point that I would ask you to consider.

In the world of " Multiculturism " that we, as Westerners are asked to embrace. I do not need to provide a list of Western Cultures that are embracing " Multiculturism "

Perhaps you could provide a list of Muslim countries that actively embrace, promote and nurture " Multiculturism "

I'm not going to partake in your semantic word game agenda. Clearly you have an issue with the word. I don't. I'm not a spokesperson for the Muslim world. My point if view was related to Australia and my distain idiots and intolerance, of all types.

[H1w4yR1da]

My point if view was related to Australia and my distain idiots and intolerance, of all types.

Maybe you should take a look in the mirror before casting aspersions on others?

See below.

Bigots the lot of you.

Let me guess, they are all old and white?

Er.. what was that you were saying about bigots?.

[Scott]

A large number of off-topic and inflammatory post along with replies has been deleted. If you wish to have a personal conversation use the PM function, not the open forum.

[ozsamurai]

Keep saying 'we' Samran and you just keep making everyone's job hassling you easier. WE are Australians, first and foremost. Not we Muslim Australian, Our side Australians!! You are Australian or not, it isn't a grey area. You want reform in the Austraian political system or the agenda of the government then vote. So far the old white guys you refer to still run the country.

Oz

[halloween]

See my post earlier, pressed post earlier.

We've got a Muslim MP, Ed Husic. Listen to him speak. Sounds pretty Aussie to me.

My afl team has a bloke called Bashar Huli on the side, one of the best players in a very unique Australian sport.

Muslim kids wanted to be surf life savers, so they came up with the burkini so they could go do what they wanted.

It's the typical migrant experience. The old white establishment bash the new kids on he block. In Australia it was the Irish, then the Chinese, the the Jews, Greeks and Italians post war. Then came the Vietnamese refguees, one of these boat arrivals has just been made govenor of South Australia.

Now it is the afghans and middle easterner turn again, I say again as we've already has one bloke, Steve Bracks who was one of the longest serving premiers of Victoria, defended from Lebanese stock. Conservative indepenendt federal MP bob katter the descendent of afghan camel traders.

And out current conservative federal treasurer? Son of a Palastinian migrant.

Which one of these successful immigrants claims the right to murder those who insult islam? Or is that getting too close to the topic?

Edited September 27, 2014 by halloween

[transam]

Fink you have "lost the plot" chummy..............

Why would you speak to one of the few Thai posters here like that? Do you not know the experience that some Asian people and other minorities have in Australia as a result of hysterical bigotry? Entirely in order in my view.

If you are referring to Samran then he is not Thai, but has applied for Thai nationality, I think he is still awaiting his passport. Last I heard it costs quite a lot of tea money to actually get one.

Now that this post has been demonstrated to be entirely lacking in fact, will you retract it? Should we take your other, more egregious posts as similarly lacking in any facts and mere gossip and speculation. I can tell you that both my Thai residency and citizenship applications did not involve the payment of any money apart from the posted fees. What credit then do we put in the frantic messages of fear and hate that you continually post on this issue of muslims in Australia. You tar an entire group with your brush of ignorance.

[Tep]

I will help you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Baghdad_church_attack

I had the misfortune to attend the immediate aftermath.

This was 2010, not medieval times.

As I do not know about Australia, perhaps you can enlighten me. Have the Muslim community integrated into the Aussie way of life ? Or is it the same as the UK, where they have turned entire areas into Muslim regions ?

You were brought up to believe ? So were a lot of people, the people who advised against were castigated from all directions. Well well well, look how well that turned out.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, everyone is. You are also entitled to take the moral high ground, I hope that works out for you when you are in an orange boiler suit.

Why are you posting wikipedia at me? This is your idea of research. What am I supposed to do with 1000 words of superficial description. Run around like a little girl pulling my hair out? You raised this issue. Why? Not for a debate or discussion on the issues but as an element in your proposition that Australia should do the same to Muslims. this is a non sequitur. I cannot argue against these. They are by definition senseless. I know how you draw your conclusions. You do so in the context of ignorance of Muslims and fear of current events. Up to you but I cannot feed this nonsense so I won't try. So for me, it is enough about the Coptic Christians.

You persist in your assimilationist view and ask about the integration of muslims into the Australian way of life. I posted on my views on assimilation and that this is doublespeak for racial hatred. I have not changed my view since yesterday. I would put it to you that a more constructive position would be to ask how the Australian way of life will benefit and evolve from the participation of muslim immigration. I look forward to seeing their contribution to our culture. I even see quite a few old white guys eating hummus now. Who would have thought?

You say you only know a few Australians thought work and another post has confirmed that they are old white guys like you with the same mentality. I invite you to meet some Aboriginal people. I know many. I worked with many homeland communities in Australia for a few years. They think and act quite differently to white Australians. I invite you to meet some Vietnamese Australians. They have made major contributions to Australia's food culture and in other meaningful areas. I know quite a few and my initial work in Vietnam was facilitated by these friends. I see reports of Vietnamese people involved criminal activity, often concerning drugs. But I don't look at a Vietnamese person and assume they are drug dealers or scream for them all to be put in jail. I invite you to meet Australians of Greek and Italian ancestry whose parents or grandparents came out after WWII. I grew up with these guys in my part of Australia. They were 2nd generation. Had lots of discussions in school about the stresses of biculturalism, particularly the traditional views of the roles of girls and women. This is all part of my Australian experience.

The first people I learned to hate were the Aboriginal people, followed closely by the Greeks and Italians. I didn't earn to hate Asians until later once the 'Boat People' started coming. Vietnamese and then Khmer. I had moved to Asia long before the Afghans, Iraqis and others starting coming but I learned to hate them during the Iran/Khomeni period. Australia's multiculturalism helped and encourage me to get rid of this learned hatred. It is still there for muslims. I try to be rational but fear and hatred are strong emotions. I have worked in many Muslim countries including in security controlled areas in Afghanistan and certain cities in the southern Philippines. I have had people in Kabul look at me with the kind of look that would turn you to jelly.

What fear you must be suffering to say something as bizarre as your orange boiler suit comment. Does this really inform your view of the future of Australians (or Brits or Americans)? You see my multiculturalist views as facilitating the perpetration of more of these acts of criminality? Australia and Australians are much better than you give them credit for.

[simple1]

On the question have Muslims integrated into Australian society, obviously some have not.

Gainful employment would be a crucial component for integration. Last week I read an article that 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education than the norm for Australians; makes sense as there is a points system for a visa, that includes relevant skills for gaining employment in sectors that experience high demand for skilled applicants. On the downside skilled Muslim migrants have twice the national average for unemployment rates, that it is alleged is often due to discrimination by employers. A few days ago I watched an interview with an Afghan who orginally entered Australia as an 'illegal' via sea. This illegal', is now known as one of the most respected surgeons in his speciality in Australia; he did comment on the negative attitudes he sometimes experiences in daily life.

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

[Tep]

On the question have Muslims integrated into Australian society, obviously some have not.

Gainful employment would be a crucial component for integration. Last week I read an article that 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education than the norm for Australians; makes sense as there is a points system for a visa, that includes relevant skills for gaining employment in sectors that experience high demand for skilled applicants. On the downside skilled Muslim migrants have twice the national average for unemployment rates, that it is alleged is often due to discrimination by employers. A few days ago I watched an interview with an Afghan who orginally entered Australia as an 'illegal' via sea. This illegal', is now known as one of the most respected surgeons in his speciality in Australia; he did comment on the negative attitudes he sometimes experiences in daily life.

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

The 2nd generation Greeks and italians I went to school with in the 70s were pretty wild by the standards of the day. I think the stresses of biculturalism is a factor and some may lack coping mechanisms. You identify discrimination as a factor. Discrimination is not always overt. The subtle sort is the worst. You probably have to listen to the voices of the bi-cultural experience. I suspect that clues to radicalisation can be found there.

[jacky54]

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

So it's Muslims causing the problems of integration in Australia just as they are everywhere else, because the KORAN tells them not to befriend unbelievers . I don't know you can think hate clerics working in prisons are influencing people outside of prison, still any scapegoat is better than none.

[H1w4yR1da]

On the question have Muslims integrated into Australian society, obviously some have not.

Gainful employment would be a crucial component for integration. Last week I read an article that 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education than the norm for Australians; makes sense as there is a points system for a visa, that includes relevant skills for gaining employment in sectors that experience high demand for skilled applicants. On the downside skilled Muslim migrants have twice the national average for unemployment rates, that it is alleged is often due to discrimination by employers. A few days ago I watched an interview with an Afghan who orginally entered Australia as an 'illegal' via sea. This illegal', is now known as one of the most respected surgeons in his speciality in Australia; he did comment on the negative attitudes he sometimes experiences in daily life.

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

The 2nd generation Greeks and italians I went to school with in the 70s were pretty wild by the standards of the day. I think the stresses of biculturalism is a factor and some may lack coping mechanisms. You identify discrimination as a factor. Discrimination is not always overt. The subtle sort is the worst. You probably have to listen to the voices of the bi-cultural experience. I suspect that clues to radicalisation can be found there.

Right right! So young Australian Muslims are becoming radicalised because of discrimination?

Nothing to do with Islam or the koran?

Of course not!

And enough of the 'bigot' insults. They just make you look silly and dilute any argument you may have.

Play the ball, not the player.

Edited September 27, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[Scott]

A lot more posts have been removed. Continued posting in a racist, inflammatory manner is going to result in suspensions.

[H1w4yR1da]

I would put it to you that a more constructive position would be to ask how the Australian way of life will benefit and evolve from the participation of muslim immigration. I look forward to seeing their contribution to our culture.

Let me take a guess.

Honour killings, arranged marriages, Halal butchery, face coverings for females, grooming gangs, sharia patrols, school takeovers by extremists, numerous mosques preaching jihad, no-go areas for whites etc. etc.

We have all that in the UK. You really want to join the club,

I even see quite a few old white guys eating hummus now. Who would have thought?

And I've been eating kebabs for years. So I'm guessing the only positive influence Muslims have on the indigenous culture is some decent food? Edited September 27, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[Tep]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

This is one incident. I also read references to it on TVF. I haven't seen reports directly. I think the people who did that were wrong and if caught, should be punished (probably with something less than execution or deportation). But why do you extrapolate this to every Muslim young man? Even if a significant percentage of Muslim young men acted in this way, it still would not be a majority. So you can't say all of them are like this. An angry young Muslim man may just be an angry young man about something. You don't know until you ask him. You never ask, you just assume that they are motivated by religious hatred to kill everyone.

I think that you have to respect other people as a starting point. They have nothing to prove or to earn. If they don't return that respect, then you can start to have issues.

I am not convinced by your argument that I should use the actions of these twits to hate all Muslims.

[Tep]

You don't seem to know much about Australia.

Australia is a country of migrants, we do it better than most, and for the most part, do it well.

Samran

Please do not make assumptions on what I do or do not know.

Strange is it not, that when I directed a question to you, you did not answer. And when I directed something at Tep you answered.

Of course, I know a few Australians, funny that none of them share your views.

Sorry. Not a tag team. Sorry to destroy your illusions. Probably resulted from the fact that we have lives outside this forum and fit posting to online discussions around these lives and not the other way around.

I do know Samran in real life. He is a great guy. Many TVF people know each other. TVF has hosted parties and functions all over Thailand for people to meet each other.

I answered a question because if was part of a post directed at me. Please don't feel entitled to demand answers to further questions from any of us. I, like others, will post at my own discretion within the rules.

[H1w4yR1da]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

This is one incident.

Wrong!

Not just one incident. Stop being an apologist.

Take note of the words "a series".

I quote-

The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to fourteen Lebanese Australian youths led by Bilal Skaf against Australian women and teenage girls, as young as 14, in SydneyAustralia in 2000.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

[simple1]

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

So it's Muslims causing the problems of integration in Australia just as they are everywhere else, because the KORAN tells them not to befriend unbelievers . I don't know you can think hate clerics working in prisons are influencing people outside of prison, still any scapegoat is better than none.

Please at least try to comprehend, kindly stop being facile.

I said radicalisation "within the Muslim prison population" as one of the factors. For some reason this was known to prison authorities, but they failed to act. At least two ex Australian Muslim criminal prisoners who were radicalised during their time in prison are now killing in Syria.

[Tep]

I would put it to you that a more constructive position would be to ask how the Australian way of life will benefit and evolve from the participation of muslim immigration. I look forward to seeing their contribution to our culture.

Let me take a guess.

Honour killings, arranged marriages, Halal butchery, face coverings for females, grooming gangs, sharia patrols, school takeovers by extremists, numerous mosques preaching jihad, no-go areas for whites etc. etc.

We have all that in the UK. You really want to join the club,

I even see quite a few old white guys eating hummus now. Who would have thought?

And I've been eating kebabs for years. So I'm guessing the only positive influence Muslims have on the indigenous culture is some decent food?

You're a Brit? Well that explains it.

There is more to multiculturalism than food culture. Multiculturalism is part of Australia. Come down under and experience it so you can then try to understand it. We strive to rid ourselves of the cultural cringe bequeathed to us by the Colonial Brits and the classist, elitist and racist world view.

You equate honor killings with halal butchery? You know Jewish people have the concept of Kosher. Is this a signal for us to fear them? All I would like to see is a sense of proportion from the hysterics out there like you. How can you have conversation about honour killings when it is all jumbled up in a universal hate all Muslims diatribe. Face coverings, role of mosques, no-go areas (according to you) all all issues that may be more complex and multifaceted than you think. But try to develop a rationale response to one of these issues and you hit people with the full force of your fear. I don't know what halal butchery is. I know I have eaten halal food. I doubt any virgins were sacrificed to make it. I also doubt its taste was any different to food prepared in other ways. You think some Sharia court is going to take away your pork sausages? You really equate this with the atrocities in Syria at the moment?

[samran]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

This is one incident.

Wrong!

Not just one incident. Stop being an apologist.

Take note of the words "a series".

I quote-

The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to fourteen Lebanese Australian youths led by Bilal Skaf against Australian women and teenage girls, as young as 14, in SydneyAustralia in 2000.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

So we ban all Muslims cause of these terrible crimes?

Do we then deport all Christians, given they undertake religious motivated crimes as well?

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/03/the_10_worst_examples_of_christian_or_far_right_terrorism_partner/

I guess you'll come up with an excuse.

[simple1]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

This is one incident.

Wrong!

Not just one incident. Stop being an apologist.

Take note of the words "a series".

I quote-

The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to fourteen Lebanese Australian youths led by Bilal Skaf against Australian women and teenage girls, as young as 14, in SydneyAustralia in 2000.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

You have already raised this issue and as you well know Aussie gangs from a low socio economic background have also committed horrific rape attacks. Let's deport to some Pacific Island all Aussie whites from a similar background.

You will dismiss as irrelevant, but today reported that street abuse of Muslim women on the streets in Australia have significantly increased by dullard Ozzie bogans.

Edited September 27, 2014 by simple1

[samran]

On the question have Muslims integrated into Australian society, obviously some have not.

Gainful employment would be a crucial component for integration. Last week I read an article that 60% of Muslim migrants have a higher level of education than the norm for Australians; makes sense as there is a points system for a visa, that includes relevant skills for gaining employment in sectors that experience high demand for skilled applicants. On the downside skilled Muslim migrants have twice the national average for unemployment rates, that it is alleged is often due to discrimination by employers. A few days ago I watched an interview with an Afghan who orginally entered Australia as an 'illegal' via sea. This illegal', is now known as one of the most respected surgeons in his speciality in Australia; he did comment on the negative attitudes he sometimes experiences in daily life.

The current problems seem to be created primarily by the second generation of Muslim Australians, even those that come from successfully integrated migrant families. Why this is so appears to be mainly caused by radicalisation encouraged by unqualified self appointed 'clerics' who operate within the Muslim prison population, seek out lonely or angry younger people. The angry person scenario appears to be the case with the guy shot by police in Melbourne.

In some areas there is 'ghettoisation' that is not particularly surprising, as it did occur during previous foreign migrant waves e.g. Vietnamese who faced significant social barriers.

The 2nd generation Greeks and italians I went to school with in the 70s were pretty wild by the standards of the day. I think the stresses of biculturalism is a factor and some may lack coping mechanisms. You identify discrimination as a factor. Discrimination is not always overt. The subtle sort is the worst. You probably have to listen to the voices of the bi-cultural experience. I suspect that clues to radicalisation can be found there.

Right right! So young Australian Muslims are becoming radicalised because of discrimination?

Nothing to do with Islam or the koran?

Of course not!

And enough of the 'bigot' insults. They just make you look silly and dilute any argument you may have.

Play the ball, not the player.

A bit thin skinned aren't we? Prepared to dish it out in spades, but can take it.

Do tell. You are all for integration. I suspect you are typing this from Thailand. So do you speak read and write Thai to a native proficiency and adhere to Buddhist norms?

You are good a badgering for answers. Now it is your turn.

[Tep]

We have muslims in Australia. We must respect that and respect them.

Maybe they'll get some respect when their young men stop screaming obscenities at any passing white woman who's not dressed how they see fit or even gang-raping them.

This is one incident.

Wrong!

Not just one incident. Stop being an apologist.

Take note of the words "a series".

I quote-

The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to fourteen Lebanese Australian youths led by Bilal Skaf against Australian women and teenage girls, as young as 14, in SydneyAustralia in 2000.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

Who is apologising for anything? I specifically aid that those responsible for the shouting incident should be punished. Further, you do not use the word 'series' in the post to which I responded. I made no reference to the Sydney gang post. I have not read that. The topic was about respecting other people.

You may call me an apologist if I post apologies. Since I have not and probably will not, you have no basis for that accusation. Not much anyway by way of an insult but still it's all you seem to have. An I repeat, you did not reference series in the post to which I responded.